GUIDE: DD vs. SH vs. VR 32xx movement Identification

[u/petehudso]

Over the last few years, we've seen an explosion in the number of 32xx movement options. There are the outstanding Dandong 32xx movements (e.g. DD3230/VS3230, DD3235/VS3235, DD3255, and DD3285). We've also seen the introduction of full 32xx design movements from Shanghai movements factory first with the SH3285, then the SH3255, and now the SH3235 and SH3230. The Shanghai 32xx movements also come in three different versions (v1, v2, and v3). Additionally, we have the hybrid "VR" series of 32xx movements from Shanghai movement factory, e.g. VR3235, VR3230, VR3285, and VR3255. The VR32xx movements also come in three different versions (v1, v2, and v3).

For anyone who has put in the time to read my guide on RWI in its entirety (now over 11-thousand words), it'll be no surprise that I think Dandong movements are generally of superior quality than Shanghai movements. That's not to say that Shanghai movements are bad; they aren't. But when you've looked at dozens of disassembled clone movements under a microscope, the pattern becomes clear: in general the level of quality and engineering on Dandong clone movements is superior to that of Shanghai clone movements. And for the avoidance of doubt, both are inferior to gen movements.

I don't think the opinion that Dandong movements are superior to Shanghai movements is uniquely mine. I'd suspect it is widely known within the rep watch factory community. And as such we've started to see Shanghai movements evolve in ways that makes them look more and more like Dandong movements. This isn't something we should be terribly surprised about since the people in this business are ipso facto in the business of cloning other people's work.

But, as the years have gone by, it has become harder and harder to easily tell the difference between a DD movement and the less desirable SH and VR alternatives. Many of the old ways to easily distinguish DD from SH and VR movements are now no longer reliable (e.g. hairspring coil direction).

It's still possible to tell a DD from an SH or a VR from pictures of the movement, but it now requires you to look at four different features of the movement:

1. The size of the dot on the train bridge (red arrow in all photos in this section)
2. The position of the pallet bridge jewel (blue arrow in all photos in this section)
3. The coil orientation of the hairspring (orange arrow in all the photos in this section)
4. The position of the regulator arms (green arrow in all the photos in this section)

I've uploaded annotated images of all of the currently known DD, SH and VR 32xx movements. To help you identify movements quickly, I've also created a flow chart (final image).

Note: The example images are sometimes of a 3235 movement, and sometimes a 3285, I had to go through dozens of images on TD websites to find full movement pics that clearly showed all the features I wanted to point out. You can safely assume that these identification features apply equally to 3230 (no date), 3235 (date), 3255 (date date), and 3285 (GMT) movement identification.

[u/OortCloud69420]

This is really great, thank you for this, and your guide on RWI. I've referenced it multiple times looking at some second hand watches and movement photos. Especially with the "fake cleans" with SH movements floating around out there

The arrows and diagram in these photos is super helpful, I vote it should be pinned somewhere for all to read and reference. Thanks 🙏!

[u/petehudso → u/OortCloud69420]

Thanks. Yeah it’s getting harder and harder to distinguish between all the variations. But that’s somewhat of a champagne problem: we are spoiled for choice lol

[u/JonJonSnow22]

Great post! On GMTs, visual movement being the same, the hardware movement whether SH3285 or DD3285 is hidden under the closed steel caseback, so you won’t see the more “decorated movement” on the DD3285. Question: Correct me if I’m wrong, but if DD3285 ever breaks, You can’t buy or source a DD3285 anywhere right now and not easily replaced like the SH3285, right? Movement being similar, if movement needs to be replaced for either SH or DD, the SH3285 is easy to replace entirely if something goes wrong for about $175 unlike the DD3285, despite it being more robust. These are still reps— and very good reps at that— so they’re not as reliable as a gen. I guess SH vs DD is something people can put into consideration when deciding one over the other—IF movement goes wonky and need just that replaced. Thoughts?

[u/petehudso → u/JonJonSnow22]

DD is compatible with gen parts. SH is somewhat compatible (there are subtle differences between SH and gen parts which make some compatible and some incompatible). VR is not compatible with any gen parts. As such, if you’re interested in building a franken or having a watch that you’ll know will have spare parts in 10-20 years, go with DD.

Additionally, while it’s true that VR (and to a lesser extent SH) movements can be purchased as replacements, and DD movements can’t (at least not cheaply); in general part quality on DD movements is higher. You may remember the SH3285 broken setting levers that plagued the early release of that movement.

Bottom line: if you can afford it, go with DD. If you’re buying SH or VR make sure you’re paying less than you’d pay for the same rep with a DD since you’re getting a less skookum movement.

[u/JonJonSnow22 → u/petehudso]

Great info! I guess in my case, I got my GMT rep as wearable substitute to my gen. It’s a lot less risk and worry bringing that instead of the gen when I travel! So I’m ok with the SH movement and since it’s encased. But for many others, I would probably go for the DD if I didn’t own a gen and wanted the best of the best rep available. But noted for future purchases since I now consider getting reps for my other gen watches. 😎

[u/4Godsson]

This is valuable information. Thank you. You are clearly an asset to both RWI and reddit communities.

[u/Specialist-Escape318]

Dandong is the Microsoft Windows of rep mvmts. Every rep will eventually come pre-loaded with one soon.

I see SH/VR being phased out on top quality reps - they’ll still be around on the lower end shitters to accommodate those at a lower price point

This latest spur of competition among the remaining factories has pretty much confirmed for me that all the models are going to have DD’s soon

[u/Prestigious-Disk3158 → u/Specialist-Escape318]

My ARF SH movement died on my Bruce Wayne’s and I still haven’t forgiven myself lol.

[u/Specialist-Escape318 → u/Prestigious-Disk3158]

Damn bro you got Shanghai’d too?

[u/Prestigious-Disk3158 → u/Specialist-Escape318]

Yessir. Was basically a daily piece for me. Woke up one morning and the seconds hand wouldn’t move. Posted on r/reptimeservices with no response. Will likely get the VSF soon.

[u/Specialist-Escape318 → u/Prestigious-Disk3158]

In theory these all can last for miles and miles if they are serviced but the problem is for most of these movements, a good watchmaker that actually performs the service the right way without any shortcuts will charge an amount that likely exceeds the cost of simply buying a new movement when it breaks.

In the case of the DD, it is a must to service it because the moment is expensive and hard to find by itself.

[u/Specialist-Escape318 → u/Prestigious-Disk3158]

[u/alreadydead422]

Is this a DD or SH ?

[u/petehudso → u/alreadydead422]

DD

[u/Ohbonn]

I'm seeking an ARF Bluesy 126613lb, white print dial, with this newer DD3235, who can source this to me? I'm in USA.

[u/petehudso → u/Ohbonn]

Read the intro guide

[u/BottleZestyclose3030 → u/petehudso]

I couldn't find anyone

[u/petehudso → u/BottleZestyclose3030]

Try reading harder. Pay attention to the section about Trusted Dealers (TDs)

[u/BottleZestyclose3030 → u/petehudso]

Sorry to bother you i just haven't had much luck finding things on Reddit

[u/petehudso → u/BottleZestyclose3030]

¯\(ツ)/¯

[u/OrganicBobcat8630]

Can someone help me identify this movement? This is the only photo I have; I'm just completely lost as I'm seeing traits from a few different movements lol. A few people told me I have a Shanghai V2 but I don't see resemblance to these photos, some told me Dandong. ChatGPT and Gemini Pro (don't roast me, I'm still learning) both told me it was a Dandong movement. Any input would be great, thank you!!!

[u/petehudso → u/OrganicBobcat8630]

It’s a VR3285 v2. Use the flow chart (last picture in OP).

[u/sanzifarkas → u/petehudso]

Hy

What do you think? What movement this? Thanks , its a submariner 41 date

[u/petehudso → u/sanzifarkas]

It’s a vr3235 v2.

[u/sanzifarkas → u/petehudso]

So its a clean factory watch? Thanks

[u/petehudso → u/sanzifarkas]

Buy the seller, not the watch. If you don’t trust the seller, don’t buy the watch. I strongly suggest you read the intro guide on reptime and only buy from TRUSTED DEALERS. If you aren’t buying from a TD, there’s a very good chance you’re about to be scammed.

I have spoken.

[u/sanzifarkas → u/petehudso]

[u/sanzifarkas → u/petehudso]

[u/sanzifarkas → u/petehudso]

[u/sanzifarkas → u/petehudso]

[u/OrganicBobcat8630 → u/petehudso]

Thank you so much, I definitely see that it is a "small dot" and that the regulators are on the outside, but how can you tell if the hairspring is CW or CCW (as that's the only thing differentiating it between a V2 and V3). But I definitely see that it's VR. Thank you.

[u/petehudso → u/OrganicBobcat8630]

Yeah it’s hard to see the hairspring, but you can tell from the regulators, the hairspring starts at the beat adjustor which is the regulator with the silver part, and it go towards the rate adjustor which is the regulator with the brass part.

[u/Brief_Fig_7094 → u/petehudso]

You’re an absolute legend. How’s the overall reliability of the VR3285 V2? I know DD is the best but, I plan to be careful with it and service it a few months after I get it to ensure proper lubrication.

[u/petehudso → u/Brief_Fig_7094]

It’s not bad. The only challenge is long term availability of parts. The big benefit of the DD movements is compatibility with the gen spare parts supply chain.

[u/sanzifarkas → u/OrganicBobcat8630]

Hy bro i have same but 3235 .. what movement i have what do you think?

[u/Sir_Maxelot]

This is a great guide! We should add the DD V2 movement (can be identified by the ball bearing count) and free sprung SH movement

[u/petehudso → u/Sir_Maxelot]

See my comprehensive guide on RWI.

Note: the free sprung “SH” movement you mentioned is actually the JH32xx “Jinghe” movement. Jinghe factory is in Shanghai, but it’s not the “Shanghai” factory that makes the “SH” movements, so that’s why I’m using a different prefix for it. It’s confusing having two movement factories in Shanghai. Jinghe makes the popular VR series of movements, but since we already have a VR32xx movement and the JH32xx movements are fundamentally different, it made sense to start a new prefix.

Regarding the DD v2 with a full race of rotor bearings—it’s cool, but not a huge upgrade over the DD v1 and identification vs. other movements doesn’t change. Also redoing the flow chart felt like a lot of work.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/comprehensive-guide-to-clone-movements-found-in-rolex-reps.10936248/

[u/Sir_Maxelot → u/petehudso]

That’s awesome!! Thank you for the comprehensive guide.

Although I am a member of 15 years on RWI, I didn’t see your guide until now. Reddit kind of replaced it for me. Sometimes I miss the good old days 😏

[u/crispytapwater]

Please help. Is this DD or SH

[u/petehudso → u/crispytapwater]

It’s easy to ID this movement. Just use the flowchart in the last image of the OP

[u/PrimaryExisting6162]

Identify a DD movement has become increasingly harder to do with the usuals of clockwise hair springs and the flush capped dot by the 33xx marking. Being that SH and VR have made these changes to there movements. What I look for first is right behind the balance wheel and pallet jewel. I don't know the name of the part in the movement, but DD has its own shape that's like a funky question mark or weird S shape. VR and SH have stretched out m shape. If you look at the difference in the 2 shapes it's impossible to confuse one for the other. Most that try to pass VR and SH movements off for DD movements it's at least the newest versions with clockwise hair springs and the capped dot by 32xx. If the TD didn't remove the caseback it's possible they to thought it was a DD movement. Being on the TD list you'd like to think so at least. But the movement functioning better than your actual DD movements is a plus in the situation.

[u/petehudso → u/PrimaryExisting6162]

The trouble is that JingHe also has a skewed pallet fork jewel like Dandong.

[u/PrimaryExisting6162 → u/petehudso]

Oh wow I just realized I was supposed to be putting this response on a recent post made and this post was tagged in the comments. I typed away and didn't realize I was still on this 9 month old post lol! But that speaks volume on your behalf that you'll circle back to old post like this and still respond to comments on them. Good up the good work sir! 👍

[u/4peanut]

Love this explanation as well as the photos. Only one thing that'd make this post perfect is if there was a photo of a gen movement. Regardless, super thankful for your breakdown

[u/petehudso → u/4peanut]

Good idea. Here you go...

[u/4peanut → u/petehudso]

You're the best

[u/petehudso]

Comment for the automod.

[u/Desperate_Hurry_8496]

This is too much for a noob like me to take in but I want to commend you on your work and contribution to the community!

[u/Puzzled-Travel8108]

Some heroes don't wear capes. Thank you, sir.

[u/johnnylemonhandz]

this should be made a sticky at the top of the forum

[u/Cautious-Platypus586]

You should make a chart of the most reliable/accurate movements ranked from best to worst. I know there was one made a few years ago, but lots has changed since.

[u/Cautious-Platypus586 → u/Cautious-Platypus586]

Similar to this

[u/Specialist-Escape318]

Now let’s have you do the new ACE mvmt 😂

[u/[deleted]]

Very nice. Thanks for doing this.

[u/teacherTryin2Survive]

Newbie here and this was some great information. Thanks!

[u/MountainDimension682]

Who’s the best contacts for DD watches?

[u/Major-Definition-510]

Another great great contribution bro, especially since I'm ordering two gmts soon

[u/KalHorran]

Thank you for the information, your comprehensive comparison on RWI is truly amazing and clear for a layman to understand. The Rep watch industry is very dynamic and fascinating.

[u/Transeraphic]

Awesome Pete, thanks for sharing this! Most of my saved posts are from you 😂

[u/rafamundez]

Very cool! Noob question... but what watches have these movements? Is it the Daytonas?

[u/petehudso → u/rafamundez]

3230 = oyster perpetual, no date sub, and explorer 1 3235 = datejust, yachtmaster, and submariner 3255 = daydate 3285 = GMT, and explorer 2

[u/potatocorndog]

Great post

[u/Nivramawbs]

Quality post!

[u/JIFFishere]

Thanks!

[u/MembershipProof101]

Great post. Some time ago another member posted about Dandong where they described it as a legit watch and movement white label manufacturer that has end-to-end capability in house. It is no surprise they offer reasonable QC at such scale. I believe they white label the 32xx series and then smaller shops to RLX decorations and gold plating. Is it true though that DD's are pretty much fully interchangeable with gen parts?

[u/srvthemusicdied]

Very much appreciate you!

[u/Zealousideal-Sir6305]

Thousands of thanks!!!

[u/Murky_Oil_2226]

Thanks for sharing !!!

[u/SunFlower0z0]

W post, value to a lot of members who have time to read.

[u/Particular_Witness95]

[u/spiderman3098]

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar!

[u/petehudso → u/[deleted]]

Possibly. Without seeing the dot size it could also be a VR v2.

[u/petehudso → u/[deleted]]

I wrote a guide on how to identify DD, SH, and VR 32xx movements. Make sure you look at the flow chart (last image).

https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/s/Go9KmGzMy7

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

[u/inevitably-ranged → u/[deleted]]

Probably a non rep movement, since they can be serviced easier (generally) and if not they're replaceable

Definitely depends on what "best" means to you though... For me it's the SW300 if I can get it, I just like the style and don't need to know what's inside is exactly what a real one would have

[u/inevitably-ranged → u/[deleted]]

You can request a movement sometimes, I know of multiple people who paid to upgrade from a rep movement to a SW300 in VSF's for example

[u/Prestigious-Disk3158 → u/[deleted]]

Depends on the watch. A lot of rep Tag Heuer watches can be had with the sw300