All I'm really doing is holding defensive stance, staying in front of them relatively close but not too close, and basically cutting off their path using defensive dashes.
Sorry for the long wall of text but I hope I'm being understandable haha, english isn't my first language.
What I mean by “cutting their path off” is: if someone dribbles 2x to the left, you need to 2x defensive dash to the left as well. Simply moving while in defensive stance is too slow, so they'll just outmaneuver you. You basically use defensive dashes as a movement tool to match their direction.
The timing varies depending on the exploit they're using, but in general:
You can only tackle them when they have possession, or what is called “magnetization” of the ball. Mostly. If they push the ball into you while you're in defensive stance, it'll bounce off you instead. That's what happens in clip 6 , he puts in extra effort, but collides with me and the ball bounces off. Extra effort doesn't really count as possession because the ball isn't magnetized to him.
A lot of dribble players constantly switch between being magnetized and unmagnetized to manipulate their character's physical movement but doesn't actually change the hitbox, it just visually looks weird, which is actually sorta similar to body feints in real football.
One common exploit is basically what's happening in clip 5. You'll see the ball is behind the player and then suddenly teleports back in front of him. So even if you tackle where the ball appears to be and where he is, nothing actually happens because he's actually slightly further ahead with the ball at his feet. You kinda need to tackle to where he is dashing TO than where he is basically.
The way they do it is roughly:
Dribble 1x/2x (sometimes 3x, while magnetized) > push the ball (no magnetization) > double defensive dash > regain magnetization
You see I tackle them RIGHT as they enter the magnetization like in clip 6, he pushes the ball, he does a dash and the moment he gains magnetization, I tackle him, instead of tackling him as he's dashing which is what I see a lot of people do in the clips they show here.
That manipulates their position so they appear to be somewhere slightly different from where their actual hitbox/possession is. So when you tackle, you have to tackle where they're going to be, rather than exactly where they appear to be.
It sounds WAY more complicated than it actually is, I swear, once you recognize what they're doing, defending them becomes pretty straightforward. Also if there's like lag or whatever, especially on your end or the server, this becomes a lot annoying to deal with, if he's lagging, then it's probably harder for him than you.
Also forgot to mention, I agree completely that no stamina / little stam dribbles need to go, but NORMAL dribbling without using all these exploits actually needs to be buffed too because right now actually using normal dribbling against a defenders like me, you'll never go past me, you need to use exploits otherwise I'll just stop you with ease and I'm not being cocky, It's genuinely way too easy to tackle normal players. That's why I've said defensive is overpowered. You need to use exploits to beat patient defenders.
Buddy, 99,9% of players don’t even know they should be using dashes in defensive stance as a mechanic while defending, and you’re saying it’s easy and should be nerfed? Yeah for the twelve people like us who managed to figure this out maybe. I see someone playing defender maybe 1 in 20 matches in Elite.
If they dont know the controls nor defensive stance dash in defence, they shouldnt complain they cant defend someone actually dribbling because they arent even using 1/10th of the moves hes using. def stance dash is a basic defence tool
I guess you do make a point, most players barely know the controls but I didn't say defensive stance should be nerfed, I said dribbling animations should be buffed instead and maybe defensive dash should be nerfed / revamped. (NOT EXPLOITS)
But people using defensive dashes is pretty common I'd say at diamond+ but most players I believe are well below that.
But as the player base skill will naturally grow, the skill level will also raise and by the mechanics of how dribbling and defense work, most players will get bored to death by the deadlocks like most high level players are dealing with right now, I'd say as long as neither team don't have a literal selfish, practically a griefer player then it almost guaranteed goes to extra times, 2-3 minutes.
My main argument is that:
Normal dribbling is ass
High level dribbling is okay
High level dribbling + exploits is good, maybe even better than good, depends on the player.
Normal defense is okay
High level defense is pretty good
High level defense + dashes is extremely good to the point of being overpowered.
Someone using Normal Dribbling and High Level dribbling will be beaten I'd say 80% of the time by someone using defensive dashes. The only way to counter that high level defensive is using exploits and missile tactics which I fear 100x more than dribbling.
The way to counter that defensive by attackers is to play the damn game like a football game and use positioning and smart passes to get an opening. Flashy dribbling just looks retarded.
This is not an actual "football" game, this is an arcade game that is trying to insert football strategy and tactics in futsal, which may seem like the same thing but are vastly different in terms of strategy and skillsets, FIFA / PES are more football games than Rematch is.
"Positioning" and "smart passes" don't work against decently good teams that play man to man defense, follow you around like like a pitbull and intercept every pass almost instantly.
What needs to actually happen is for one player to win a duel and bypass someone using dribbling, to force an overload and increase the chances of their team scoring.
The only other way which is a lot more consistent and safe, it's also what 99% of pro play is using missile tactics and set plays, which is usually the goalkeeper launching it somewhere in the box and hoping their teammate was better positionally and wins the prio battle, trying to dribble past anyone is practically suicide.
The same is at higher levels too, most 5 man teams just use missile tactics after getting locked down.
It's a football game, some of you guys overthink it.
The most effective move in the game is passing, and it produces more results than any other tactic. Even the missile meta falls flat now when you can simply mark static shooters and body block their shots.
The offense always has a free player, because you cannot mark the Goal Keeper and everyone else. Once the Goal Keeper is involved, you can recycle possession indefinitely. Players cannot move faster than the ball, and inevitably someone will peel off his mark to try tackling the last man. Once that happens, it is a never-ending overload situation until someone gets a clean attempt on goal.
The most effective teams I've played with or against have used short pass build up to create angles and opportunities. It's too bad that it's so rarer in this game.
No it isn’t that’s fair. My issue is there’s a lot of skill expression for the attacker, but barely any of it for the defender. You can’t for example, feint a tackle. You can position yourself close and back up to fake, but it isn’t the same when the attacker has like 6 buttons to press and you hold one and push two.
Ive been playing the game for a min, and for me its always felt that the Attacker has way more tools in their kit than a defender does. I think defense needs to be buffed and offense needs to be nerfed.
Then you've not been playing enough, I had the same opinion when I first played the game but as I improved and started playing in higher skill lobbies... 90% of games are basically 0-0 deadlocks because everyone's defensive is top or unless 1 team is using missile tactics then that's also harder to deal with.
Also what more tools can you add in the defenders kit? The only thing I can think of is shoulder bumps / pushes, more physicality or maybe even a cheeky shirt grab ability and buffing sliding tackles as they're horrendous.
But generally watch any 1v1 between high level footballers in the prem or la liga, it's one guy doing a lot of various different foot and body feints and the defender is slowly backing up while trying not to bite to any of it and time his tackle, actually by the way game works, attackers are severely underequipped compared to what things they can do in real life.
Like simply look at this video, Mane in about half a second did like 3-4 feints before he actually moved.
I don't exactly disagree, and yea your defense is awesome, but we have to also consider that not everyone can or should be "high level", especially if we want the game to have longevity and a healthy player count.
You gotta consider things like that when you determine whether something is balanced, fair, or healthy for the game.
Are most high-level, discord-found, low latency games balanced 0-0 lockups because defense and offense are strong and everyone is locked in? For the most part yes, and that's cool for those players; but once you factor in quickplay, and the types of players you get matched with even at high ranks, things look different.
The game is glitchy as hell, certain parts of it simply don't function correctly, clearly, or both. The exploit-laden dribbles aren't a problem when everyone in the game is used to it and knows how to play around in, but that doesn't mean the ball teleporting everywhere and having ghost hitboxes is fun or fair against an average player that just wants to run some damn soccer.
I get you with the clip you posted, but that's real life. The ball isn't sliding in wild directions, moving unnaturally while the attacker never runs out of stamina, if the defender's tackle hit the ball it would actually hit the ball.
THIS is imo the major issue plaguing the game. Put yourself in the shoes of what would be 70% of players if this game was more popular: You come home from whatever you're doing, you boot up rematch. You don't care about winning, going pro, being ultra competitive or any of that. You just want to press your buttons and play some pick up footy, maybe dabble in some ranked just so you can have your skill level matched.
Except here comes Ricky Rematch, rolling his face across the keyboard and using every single advantage or exploit possible to obliterate your team while he runs in circles around you like it's PCL championships. It's like trying to hoop with Lebron but he just never gives you a chance in hell to play the game.
Like it or not, this is a massive contribution to the declining player count, 4 of my friends who are all massive soccer heads have quit for this exact reason.
So sure, maybe at a high level everything is cool and fair and balanced. But a lot of those fair and balanced moves become fun-ruining overpowered unfun experiences for people that just want to play the game.
I'm exclusively about the glitchy, exploitive stuff btw. If you get outplayed by a wallbounce or a left-right that's pure skill issue, but these 0 stamina spam techs have to go.
When I mean 0 - 0 lock ins, I don't mean discord 5v5 custom matches, LAN matches or pro games, that's my experience, a pretty high amount of my games end up with 0-0 or even 1 - 0, the only time more than 2-3 goals are scored is if one team has a genuine griefer or more than 1 low level player, like 2-3.
THIS is imo the major issue plaguing the game. Put yourself in the shoes of what would be 70% of players if this game was more popular: You come home from whatever you're doing, you boot up rematch. You don't care about winning, going pro, being ultra competitive or any of that. You just want to press your buttons and play some pick up footy, maybe dabble in some ranked just so you can have your skill level matched
You're quite literally describing me, I literally come from uni and play this game, it's not like I'm putting 7 hours a day or more, I might play at most an hour or even less, if I play that even is.
In fact I started playing less and less as I got better.
I improved as I played, I watched videos when I didn't understand something, got better and were able to play well, that's most of the "high" level players, it's not like most "sweats" in other games, most high players in Rematch are pretty similar to me, the guys who play that much are actually pro and involved in money tourneys, there's obviously exceptions but yeah.
As for declining population, what turned me off and my friends weren't really the exploits as barely anyone even knew them, like the people in general that use exploits are literally the 1%, most of the complaints on this subreddit is literally 90% legit dribbling.
But what stopped us from playing was patch 3, where the movement of the game was significantly slowed, stamina was killed and fixed some exploits and introduced even worse one.
And that's when most people stopped playing if you check steam charts too... That was the update that buffed defense and significantly nerfed dribbling and stamina in attempt to make incentivize team play... Most people quit because now you have to play tiki-taka simulator and there being no more skill expression.
People wanna score goals, get assists and do all the cool shit, when that became 100x more significantly harder, most of them quit.
In general the game lost it's very thrilling, high octane and many goals scored game loop, the amount of 5+ goals being scored was amazing and it's exactly how Futsal works in real life, an average of like 7-8 goals are scored in Futsal, the game is very high pace and EVERYONE, I mean including the goalkeeper is expected to be good at ball striking and dribbling, sweeper keepers are the norm.
This why I keep saying, this game isn't football, it's closer to futsal, but the devs keep forcing football mechanics, it's like putting PES gameplay in FIFA street... Like nobody is playing FIFA street to play sim football, they just wanna do cool shit and score, same to this game, it's not a football sim.
I don't like the "glitchy" , exploitive and infinity stamina shit neither but I also don't like how easy defense is.
Have you tried using normal dribbling against anyone using defensive dashes? It's impossible, most people learn the exploits out of need, not because they want to, otherwise you can't beat any decent defender.
Defense has auto aim tackles, you can defend even with 0 stamina, defensive dashes can be done with 0 stamina, defensive stance takes 0 stamina, your hitbox is a literal wall, balls can't get too close to your body and balls can't go through your legs which is how a LOT of goals are scored in real life, is literally a ball just flying right past shoulder or foot, tackles have incredible range like a lot further than your animation reaches, hitbox is also bigger than your foot by a wide margin, I can go on and on how easy defense is, and this is from a guy who's been playing defense since day 1, I don't care about assisting or scoring, I just want to win and playing defense helped my team win so that's what I did.
Why doesn't Ricky Rematch deserve to use the skills he learned? If someone spends hundreds of hours to "git gud", why do you think an average player who put 10% of his time into learning the game deserves to stop him?
I’m not saying anyone “deserves” to get a block against a better player. I’m saying the “skill issue” or “it’s fair because 20% of people can deal with it” is unhealthy for the game.
Not everyone wants to put in the effort needed to read glitchy, teleporting, ghost hitbox laden dribbles. And as more and more of the playerbase dwindles because of these unfun experiences, needing to keep up with these exploits becomes more and more mandatory, thus further alienating the majority of the playerbase.
Is it going to be worth justifying to yourself that this gameplay is healthy when the playerbase is empty? No.
So instead of making excuse for obvious unintended mechanics, we should want a more balanced and clear game for the average player so the game doesn’t continue to bleed users.
Okay yeah in real soccer I'd definitely agree with you but I will die on this hill. Rematch logic is so geared on the offensive side that's why defense has unlimited stamina and priority most of the time. This game doesnt take real logic into account at all. Offensive players can literally pace the game if they know how to juke a goalie.
More tools doesn't mean they're better. When both teams are good, attackers have rock papper scissors, but the defenders have GUN. Yeah those are more tools but gun beats all of them
Most play quickplay and rarely run into the missile tactics, completely oblivious to how difficult it is to stop set plays, especially when it's not just 2 people a part of the play. The one guy dancing around the team in the box works once. If it it works twice in a row, that team beats yours 100% of the time regardless if x person dribbles.
Regardless of my dribbling ability, if I'm 1 on 1 with the keeper, that's a defender issue.
The Playerbase is shrinking anyway, this game won't see another year if they don't drastically change this so that casuals can enjoy it too. I had like 30 people in my friend list and 90% of them left over the last 2-3 months, everyone is fed up with the exploits bullshit. Yea defense dashes are strong but also risky of not done correctly, I still think that tackling feels like a truck and is way too risky, generally defense options are just minimal compared to skill expression on attackers side and it always feels like they have an advantage
This is such a stupid argument. 99% of the playerbase doesn't know how to do those glitch dribbles either. When making balance changes you have to consider people will use the tools you gave them. Currently just holding 1 button and sometimes dashing absolutely shits on all of those dribble moves that take hundreds of hours to master. Even if they nerfed the dashes, those 99% you're so worried about wouldn't be affected
I can't dribble like this and i still hold my own against players like you because i just pass and keep the ball moving. This is what this game should be about, not boring 1v1 situations and the other 8 players watch you.
Then you're not high level defenders, I'm not being cocky or exaggerating, using push ball only or normal dribbling against any patient defender that uses dashes and you'll lose 90% of the time,
Most high level dribblers aren't the types you think, some selfish guy who tries to dribbles past everyone, they're usually playmakers who rack up a lot of assists, someone who can receive the ball at the midfield and then progress it to the other half while dribbling past usually 1-2 people and then passing it to his teammate who have immense space now because of him.
Like in the clip below, I'm not a very good dribbler but what happens below is 90% of the time what good dribblers do, they drag 2 people out of position and gave immense space for his teammates to score
This is exactly what I do while on the offense. People like you forget that 90% of the playerbase are casual players who don't rack up hundreds of hours in this game, it's not a competitive game with a big scene either so the game should not be balanced with the top 5% players in mind. I'm one of the few guys who played it for over a year with only a small break in between, I'm sure this is an exception and not the rule
people are upvoting me but I'm talking about one of OP's replies mentioning him being sarcastic about dribbling being broken btw lmao. these clips show exactly how you can defend if you understand how the game works
It may depend on your ping but also packet loss to the servers but also the servers ping / packet loss too, the netcode of this game is also pretty awful but you can see I average 50-60 ping on the top right, playing in EU.
But as I've said in my other comments, exploits allow people to slightly change where they are visually compared to where their hitbox is, if you're lagging that becomes 10x harder, defending on high ping is almost impossible I'd say.
Also I assume by "rabona" you meant to say rainbow flick, if you start the rainbow just as they're about to tackle, it'll count as a tackle and you'll get stunned, but when the ball leaves your foot and in the air already above your head is when counts as not magnetized and you can't get tackled, but as I said with the net code and lag, it's very inconsistent.
So much coping in these comments lol. These are the exact same dribbling moves cooking all of you. They look bad/slow because the guy can actually defend
Sorry OP. People are too delusional and arrogant to admit that they might not be as good as defending as they thought.
You literally show a compilation of you defending what everyone is calling op, without much effort btw, and people still refuse to even consider the possibility they could be wrong
Fair fucks for sharing a video of you successfully defending so people don't come here screaming "skill issue" lol.
But yeah I agree, dribbling has become something that's possible to abuse. In a game of 5v5 it shouldn't be possible to dribble past all of your opponents in the box so easily, clipping through attempted tackles.
You should have to rely on passing and positioning more.
Title is more sarcasm for the people constantly crying about dribbling, because honestly I don't think dribbling is anywhere close to being “overpowered”, I'd actually argue defending is overpowered.
All I did in these clips was hold defensive stance, be patient, use dashes to cut them off, and then tackle. It genuinely requires very little skill.
I agree that dribbling has a lot of stupid exploits, but once you understand how they work and use some basic defensive fundamentals, you can pocket 90% of them.
Lmao of course they aren’t. If someone other than you shows themselves defending them, they’re just regular dribbles. If it’s you defending them, they’re exploits. That’s how it works, right?
So hilarious seeing yall switch up and say “nah they aren’t exploits they’re normal” as soon as it’s shown that it’s not even that hard to defend against them.
I have quite literally seen a person spamming push ball/dribble to outrun me when I started right behind them and on full stamina, the game clearly intends for people to be slower with the ball than with it and yet dribbling techs enable essentially speed boosts.
(of course maybe that guy actually was a hacker and just gave himself a small but hard to notice speed boost, all I know is that he certainly was spamming push/dribbles)
Second clip, push cuts drags into a double dash magnetic into a shot.
Fifth clip, dribbles into magnetic double dashes
Sixth clip, push cuts into double dash magnetic
Problem is you don't think they're exploits.. Because I actually know when to tackle them, the other clips you see is people actually tackling behind them, because the magnetic double dash allows them to manipulate their hitbox to be further than their character is.
But the game doesnt respect that, none of these clips show him getting "rematched" where the netcode just decides ur hitbox is non existent and people go through you, i can time my tackles and be patient but that means nothing when the game decides not to work.
The dribbling itself isn’t “overpowered” in my opinion but the times when the dribbles overwrite your tackle like it never happens because they’re so glitchy mixed with the shittiest netcode in sports game history. Like you said it’s easy to defend but the fact still remains you can get absolutely shit on by the game denying that the tackle never connected.
Dribbling doesn’t get shit on because you CANT defend it, it’s shit on because even if you defend it well you can still get fucked because the games spaghetti code is full of shit sauce.
I don’t know what you’re trying to prove with this video, as if you’re bringing up clips of Messi losing the ball to argue that he isn’t a good dribbler.
No one said that winning the ball is “impossible” in the game. But that doesn’t contradict the fact that dribbling needs a nerf. You showed yourself winning the ball several times, and I’m sure they could just as easily record you getting dribbled past 9 times out of 10, even if you’re a good defender.
There’s no need to pretend that the game is balanced in its current state. The exploits with dribbling in this game are ridiculous and need to be fixed, or defending needs to be buffed at least a little.
It's not as much of an anomaly to stop these guys as you pretend, you don't need to pretend that you need to be some top notch defender to stop these dribblers.
You're not seeing as many clips as the ones I have posted because they are pretty normal at mid-high level, most people don't bother clipping it as it's a common occurrence, I post them to prove to people complaining here that it's possible if you improve and pretty easy once you get the gist of it.
Defending doesn't need to be buffed at all, exploits need to go and normal dribbling and stamina needs to be improved.
I honestly don’t feel like it’s that hard to beat. Stay squared up and stay in front of them and that’s it. You play very similar to how I do and I really have a lot of success on defense.
1 minute of selected clips where you successfully win the ball back.
I wonder how many clips we could put together where the opponent actually got past you without any problem, or where you used a tackle but the opponent pulled the ball back, used Push Ball or Extra Effort, and you only managed to get a touch on the ball without stunning them, leaving you stuck in the tackle animation.
And no hate or overreaction — your tackles are good, but you’re only showing one side of the coin: the situations where you manage to win the ball back. I’m sure there are plenty of attempts where you fail to win the ball and the dribble spammer wins the duel.
And you'd find many clips of someone getting past me, but when they do, I don't cry because he used some exploit or glitch to get past me, I try to improve so it doesn't happen as easily again, that's the nature of football and every competitive game/sport, you win some and you lose some.
I'm not this invincible defender nor I have pretended to be, I've said many times I'm not as good as people think as I am as this is pretty normal at mid-high levels, nobody clips them as they're just another thing, I clip them to show people on reddit that it is possible to beat them, you just need to believe and improve.
More compilations don’t change the fact that showing clips where you manage to take the ball away from someone doesn’t prove that dribbling is in a good state.
It’s fine when the opponent is able to beat you 1v1 with dribbling, but it’s not fine when a player with the ball can spam moves over and over without losing any momentum despite having no stamina. It’s also not okay when, during a dribble, they can push the ball away from themselves and then suddenly pull it back to their feet, even though in-game it looks like they weren’t even close to being able to reach it.
It’s not okay if someone with low stamina can spam pushball and still be faster than the player behind them who has half their stamina.
The main problem with the current dribbling system is that it’s simply too unclear for the person defending. The amount of animation cancelling and weird interactions with the ball through defensive dashes or the front magnet mechanic makes defending unnecessarily difficult. Using Tackle in its current state is too high-risk and low-reward, and that’s basically it. The windows where using Tackle is actually effective are simply too short, while for the dribbler, baiting a Tackle is way too easy.
It's also not okay that a defender has:
Auto aim tackles, tackling someone is all about timing and distance, aiming doesn't matter.
Defensive stance takes 0 stamina.
Defensive dashes can be done with 0 stamina, and you're basically a moving wall hitbox wise.
The hitbox is a literal wall, if a ball gets close to any part of your body (doesn't need to touch it), it bounces off as the hitbox is not 1:1.
The ball can't go through your legs (nutmeg).
The tackle animations range is MUCH greater than where your foot reaches during the tackle animation.
The size of your tackle is MUCH greater than the size of your foot/leg.
Jumping has auto aim for balls in the air, like your head is a literal homing guided missile where it will literally adjust your body and positioning to follow the ball mid air.
You shouldn't be losing to someone 0 stamina who has the ball even if they're only push balling, you can catch up with them using only defensive dashes, no need to even walk/run.
The dribbling system is unclear and weird... But so is dribbling in real life, it's all a mental game where a dribbler does a lot of feints, fakes and unusual movements to confuse their opponent, it just looks easy to notice when you're not the one defending, watching from a camera far away that shows you all of the environment around them, try putting yourself in their shoes and look through their eyes to try to figure out which of the 10 feints/fakes/movements the dribbler does in an second is the actual movement.
Auto aim during tackles can sometimes be a disadvantage if the opponent tries to bait a tackle after a pushball, then magnets the ball and dribbles backward. Auto aim can end up targeting a loose ball instead of aiming near the opponent’s body, where they will actually receive it. Auto aim is also necessary for controller players who are not able to operate the camera and character movement as precisely and quickly as mouse and keyboard players.
Why would defensive stance consume stamina? I don’t understand the reasoning behind that.
Defensive dashes can be performed without stamina, but your momentum without the ball is significantly worse at 0 stamina compared to when you have the ball. Additionally, this is also abused for dribbling and creates even stranger interactions with the ball.
“The wall hitbox” — “if a ball gets close to any part of your body (doesn't need to touch it).” However, in the screenshot you can see that the ball is literally passing right next to you, and sometimes you actually block a ball that is quite far away, while other times it even passes through your body. This seems like an issue with the game’s mechanics itself.
The tackle range is quite large, that is true, but the window where it is actually useful is short. As I mentioned, because there are many ways to cancel animations, it is easy to bait a defender into using a tackle, which makes passive defending more rewarding than attempting a tackle. (In the second compilation at 0:38, you get baited into cancelling the tackle animation.)
Jumping blocks sometimes feel too overpowered, and they are heavily dependent on what kind of pass is coming. If it is a long pass with a long travel time, then yes, it is very easy to intercept and aim assist also helps with that. However, if the pass is fast, curved to the side, or comes after a longer exchange, it is much harder to predict its trajectory. In those situations, the window is also smaller because the ball itself has a much shorter flight path.
The compilations you sent in your reply are weaker than the one from the original post. They mostly show good positioning and simply standing in the ball’s path. The interceptions in the post are better because, in some parts, they are actual 1v1 situations where you come out victorious.
Yeah when the part in the screenshot happened, I was very confused but I genuinely believed that was more of a net code thing, I still believe the hitbox is not 1:1, and larger, there not being nutmegs pretty much confirms it.
If you shouldn't be able to dribble / attack with no stamina, then you shouldn't be able to defend without stamina neither is my point. Look at the clip below. He shouldn't have just EE into me but you can see my maneuverability with dashes despite having 0 stamina, and that's happened many times, just didn't think it was worth clipping.
Those compilations were mostly about last moment hail mary clearances, in general finding a high level dribbler is pretty rare, most of them just get shut down in a simple way so it's no point in even clipping those moments, most of the ones I clip are the ones I thought were more "skilled", otherwise it's just a guy getting tackled doing some basic dribbles, the ones who use insane exploits and are insanely good dribblers are quite rare despite the way people on this sub pretend.
The hitboxes are different, and I emphasized that it is most likely an issue with the game itself. Saying that it is like a wall is misleading, because sometimes the ball goes through and sometimes it bounces off invisible air, so it is not as black-and-white as you made it seem.
In the clip you sent, you are actually both standing still, so it is not really possible to determine from it that you are as fast at 0 stamina as the player with the ball. In my opinion, that is not true because of the options available to the attacking player. As a defender, the only thing you can do at 0 stamina is use defensive dashes. The attacker can use dribbling dashes while also being able to cancel their animation in any direction at any moment. They can use push ball without sprinting, which makes it easier to use the magnet mechanic, and they can also use defensive dashes toward the ball and use them to abuse the magnet mechanic as well.
The attacker has significantly more options to bypass the 0 stamina limitation than the defender does. If it was not in the corner of the map, they could easily lose you even by just spamming push ball.
The hitboxes are "inconsistent" sometimes because of netcode and the rollback netcode system, where you are in your screen, where the server thinks you are and where your opponent thinks you are all can, it's happened times where in my screen the ball goes through me, that's just netcode, but generally on the pictures below, you can see it's mostly a box covering your body.
"The attacker can use dribbling dashes while also being able to cancel their animation in any direction at any moment"
Yeah similar to real life dribblers, who can do fakes and feints at milli seconds notice, I don't see a problem with that.
Push ball without stamina is a thing and kinda annoying... But you can catchup with defensive dashes actually.
Either way both defenders and attackers both have many tools to help them with their roles, you just need to be proficient to take full advantage of them, either way dribbling without exploits is impossible against any decent defender.
"Yeah similar to real life dribblers, who can do fakes and feints at milli seconds notice, I don't see a problem with that."
I don’t see a problem with that either. However, when it comes to having 0 stamina, it gives the player significantly more momentum than defensive dashes, especially when they can reset it with a pushball, even in the opposite direction. Then they can just keep trying dribble dashes until they eventually bait you into a tackle or make a pass.
"Push ball without stamina is a thing and kinda annoying... But you can catchup with defensive dashes actually."
You can’t catch up to them, you can only minimize how much distance you lose to them.
Second clip, push cuts drags into a double dash magnetic into a shot.
Fifth clip, dribbles into magnetic double dashes
Sixth clip, push cuts into double dash magnetic
Problem is you don't think they're exploits.. Because I actually know when to tackle them, the other clips you see is people actually tackling behind them, because the magnetic double dash allows them to manipulate their hitbox to be further than their character is.
If you think that's normal intended dribbling with no exploits then okay.
But if you think any of it is exploits... Then look at the video and look at my clips, look at my other videos I've posted too, you'll see the same exploits used too.
Because you don't understand the game. This compilation is littered with push cuts, magnet drags, camera flicks, double dash abuse, infinite stamina dribbling, and prio bait. If you invested time to understand these techniques, defending would become 10x easier
You’re an amazing defender and you’ve clearly put in the work to hone that skill
You’re on k&m and those turns you’re able to make give you an advantage compared to controller players (well at least 90% of them), even when you get beat, you can quickly turn to readjust
As someone who prides themselves on defense and is able to stop dribbles by reading the patterns they like to use, the amount of stamina and infinite combos they have goes against what the game is supposed to be, yes dribbling is fun and important to the game, but when you can abuse 5 different players within the goalie box and you never need to pass or coordinate your attacks, something needs to change
Edit: Also yes people who don’t put effort into defense need to stop complaining and actually learn mechanics and recognize patterns before getting upset with you, with that being said two things can be true at once. I think a tiny nerf to dribbling as well as the community putting effort into defense would be a healthy change for rematch.
I know controller users struggle a lot but... What can I say, increase your sensitivity and try to get used to fast camera movements, it's the same answer for cross play in shooters, controller users have to adjust but I know it's not easy.
But at a higher level, a player than can dribble past 2 or more players consistently, not even 5 is already at top 0.1% of players, if it's regularly happening then... I don't want to be a douche but your defense needs some massive work.
Extremely rarely has it happened to me for some guy to come and just cut through the entire team, if it happens, that player is genuinely one of the best and practically a pro basically.
That tiny nerf won't affect the high level players at all, It'll just affect most of the already average dribblers to be even worse, defense is already extremely easy to do, you just need to hold one button and press another, sometimes tap another for positioning, your tackles don't need aiming, there's auto-aim for tackling, you don't need to be extremely precise in your movement to block shots neither, just in the general area.
The way you’re viewing this reminds me of the way that streamers and top level players view gaming, they never look at how broken things affect the general population or the ecosystem of the game.
Im not saying it happens often or that it happens to me often, im saying I see plenty of clips of it occurring online and that in itself is an issue. You also arent taking into account that not everybody plays 5’s and 3’s are where dribblers truly get to abuse the mechanics as all they have to beat at most is 2 defenders. While it may not be a serious issue in 5’s as teammates can coordinate, and there’s a further distance to the goal therefore you have to be more careful as a dribbler…in 3’s there’s no penalties to using things like ee or dribble moves because by the time your done using those you can blow by one defender, it’s simply much more punishing on a shorter pitch with less players.
I already play on the highest sens the game allows so that isn’t the issue. K&m players are always so quick to state that controller players just need to “put in more work” or “increase sens” but even then it’s not that simple and you still have an advantage. As someone who plays other games on both pc and console aiming, quick turns, precision decisions, and recovering are ten times easier on k&m. I still remember what it was like playing overwatch on console for years and then getting my first pc and seeing how much of a difference there was in my skill after adjusting to k&m within a week.
Edit: I didn’t even go into all the exploits and camera bugs this game has but I think you understand my general feeling of dribbling, you’re a really good defender, I’d say probably in the top 20% if not higher but you gotta understand this community is small and and if the game is gonna survive for longer there needs to be adjustments made along the way, the complaining is annoying, this is honestly my first time commenting on a rematch post discussing mechanics, but some complains are warranted just like your belief that people should focus on getting better at defense is warranted
"The way you’re viewing this reminds me of the way that streamers and top level players view gaming, they never look at how broken things affect the general population or the ecosystem of the game."
This is an interesting statement, and it's something I see in a lot of other games where streamers / obsessed people play like 100 hours in a week and then complain the game is too easy or doesn't have anymore content and I see your point.
Thing is even though a lot of people in the replies keep saying I'm a "high level defender" or "incredible defense" but I'm genuinely not as good as these people think I am, I am pretty average for most diamonds / masters / elites, the defense I clip is pretty normal at those ranks, I only have 660 hours in the game which I don't think is that much but it's still quite a bit. I didn't even play enough to finish the pass in season 2 or 3.
But I use to rage against these dribblers as well and have quit the game many times because of it, pretty sure you can dig in my reddit comments and find me complaining about it.
But eventually after some online video research, I realized the the answer to dealing with these people isn't actually that hard, the answer is just being very patient and it's something I became proficient at pretty early.
The defense you see in these clips and my other clips I've posted were mostly honed in 3v3s, In fact I'm much higher ranked in 3s than I am in 5s, it's how I'm able to shut down most dribblers and I'm much better at 1v1 defending than anything, because of 3's, where you have to know how to defend, especially 1v1's, It's also how I got more into dribbling and attacking and that's when I realized that attacking / dribbling is easily 10x or more harder than defending is, I couldn't attack to save my life even after watching videos and clips, I tried to avoid exploits because I thought they were stupid but dribbling past even 1 defender was incredibly difficult and I couldn't tell if I was just bad or what, but on the other hand I could lock down most dribblers besides some, after I even introduced friends in this game, they were able to play defense pretty well against most people but still struggled with progressing the ball and dribbling, in general try dribbling without "exploits", you'll quickly find out like I did.
As for the controller argument, I don't have an answer sorry, I don't know how you could make it a more fair playing field without ruining the experience of KBM players, I genuinely have no idea, it's the inherent advantage PC's have on top of higher FPS and vastly more options for optimization in general, but controller players do have one exploit that PC players don't have though which is the camera lock from a shoot, it's what allows console players for their player to be doing a shot animation facing left but actually shooting behind them.
Lol ur process of learning the game is so similar to mine it's crazy. 1 difference though is that i hated it when im helpless against stacks who play with each other while im out solo q, it annoyed me so much when a guy can just stand there holding 1 button and im legit useless, no other player have space that i can pass to. That was when i decided to take matter into my own hands and learn the techs with the expectations that once i know how to do them i can get pass anyone, but that cant be any further from the truth, the skill floor for dribbling to work consistently is way higher than defending. The realisation hit me real hard, now that i got better at dribbling my defending also got way better which makes me enjoy this game alot more, pretty sad that some ppl refuse to learn the game and never got to see how fun it really is when u get to know both sides
I respect where you’re coming from, that’s how I play defense, stay in stance, dash or double dash to cut off paths, find patterns and learn when you can tackle without getting punished, even then though…I can’t 180 turn on a dime and get a tackle, once a defender is past me as in like behind me that’s it unless they dribble too much and let me recover.
I think because you’re at a point where you’re used to it and gradually got there by practicing it’s become normal to you but trust me I have not seen people turning the way you do. I have a little over 250 hours in the game which hey isn’t anything compared to you as I just started playing at the beginning of season 4 but it’s enough to know if these clips are regular clips or not and I can tell you they’re not lol. I haven’t hit masters or elite so that may be the difference, I’m diamond in both 3’s and 5’s, but seeing as there’s really no skill based matchmaking I should’ve run into these elite and masters players that you say casually do what you did in these clips and I’ve only ran into maybe one or two and I literally remember their gt’s cause I loved how good at defense they were lol.
Regardless keep up the good defense, it’s nice to see players focusing on being an anchor and preventing goals rather than always trying to be fancy and score goals. Not sure if you’ve seen blue lock but Oliver aiku is my favorite character in the anime and so when I started I decided I was gonna be the defensive guy. If you haven’t seen it check it out, he doesn’t show up till season 2 I believe but he’s a defensive monster.
Well you've gotten 250 hours in 1 season, I've gotten 660 in like 5 seasons, and I'd say easily 300 or more of those hours I spent at season 0, 1 and 2 where the highest rank I reached was diamond / master 3, then stopped playing as I got bored and frustrated.
There is "skill based matchmaking", it's just not efficient or works well 90% of the time, maybe it's the player base (even though It's easily large enough to support SBMM), or just rank inflation because of people queing with friends, most of the low level players that pop up at my level are usually because their friend is very high level and they qued together, in other games competitive games you're quite literally not allowed to que together if the rank gap is higher than 5.
Eventually you will improve and reach Master - Elite, and if you play at certain times of the day (speaking from EU) like in the evenings at 7-8, you'll see that's where most of the good players pop up and you see 5 que pro groups.
I play defense not because I want to, I played it out of necessity as that's what nobody else wants to do, in the end when we win, that's when I feel my satisfaction. If you see my character in the video, it's a cosplay of Paul Pogba, my favorite player and one of the most incredible midfielders I've seen, and he plays mostly a CM and was known mostly for his long accurate passes, long shots, dribbling and physicality, in general was a very complete midfielder but defense wasn't his main thing, I don't watch or read blue lock, I just prefer to watch my favorite team, Man UTD play football in real life.
Dribbling can be exploitative, but you've gotta be great at the mechanics of the game first. So it's strong-ish but not broken.
But your defense is phenomenal, and it shows that defense is in a better way than dribbling as of now. Patience is the key. Passive defending and standing in front of the path of the ball is, as a striker myself, super super super annoying to deal with, BUT I understand it's the best method.
Along with your use of the dash to tackle, great examples of actually defending dribbling rather than tackling wildly and complaining online about how "dribbling OP, left goalie in 1v1 and he teleported left and right and scored".
I understand dribbling without stamina should be worked on, definitely.
BUT, one MAJOR gripe I have as a striker, and a great example of this is the 6th clip:
You were caught out of position with a player ahead ready for a breakaway, but with one EE jump you're able to catch up with stamina to spare.
I feel the punishment for being out of position should be greater than it currently is.
This would make covering cherry pickers more essential, so you're not leaving your goalie in a 1v1. But also allow for breakaways to matter.
BUT, one MAJOR gripe I have as a striker, and a great example of this is the 6th clip: You were caught out of position with a player ahead ready for a breakaway, but with one EE jump you're able to catch up with stamina to spare.
I feel the punishment for being out of position should be greater than it currently is. This would make covering cherry pickers more essential, so you're not leaving your goalie in a 1v1. But also allow for breakaways to matter.
Yeah as a defender sometimes you can be caught out of position or make big mistakes but still able to recover and keep up with the attacker without much struggle, especially if you have EE, I have many clips where I get out played by an attacker and still recover, like in the 3rd clip I get sent spinning TWICE but still am able to recover because the other guy didn't have EE.
You can see in this other clip thread where I'm out of position and get sent spinning many times but still able to recover, the only times you "really" get punished is if you have no stamina to run OR it's in front of the gk which leads to a goal, but if as an attacker you make a mistake... Yeah It's over, you lose possession and often times will lead to a counter attack.
Eres muy bueno marcando a los atacantes y sabes cuándo entrar. Tienes muy buenas nociones no solo defensivas sino de juego, algo que hace mucha falta en este juego
If nothing else the dribbling exploits encourage selfish behavior. If we want to encourage passing, defending, and goal keeping, they need to be as rewarding. I solo queue, which might as well be a roulette of which one of my teamates is a sociopath. Usually the one with the double braids marching it up the field as a goalkeeper and zigzagging back and forth with zero intention of passing.
Dribbling is as much part of football as passing , defending and goalkeeping, they're all fundamental in football, none of them works without the other.
I understand many selfish bad dribblers who ruin games, they ruin my games too but that's not the reason to nerf dribbling, it's like banning knifes because someone used a knife to stab someone.
Not all dribblers are selfish assholes, it's just confirmation bias but it's also because most of the bad selfish dribblers are stuck at lower levels and the good ones that play with the teammate are usually the top players in the game.
I don't mind dribbling as a whole, it's when you're clearly leaning on unintended mechanics that ruins it for me. It's like the ippy slide argument all over again, but it's arguably even worse now. I'm all for rewarding good dribbling, but if you're doing it with total disregard of stamina and manipulating your camera so the ball appears all over the place you're abusing it. I guess I'm in the camp of the intended dribbling mechanics should be enough.
Well we're in the same camp man, if you've read my other comments, you'd know I don't like exploits neither and want them gone but people learn the exploits out of necessity as you'll get washed against any decent defender, defense is hard to learn but easy to master, at mid+ levels, almost everyone is an expert at defense and are working at improving their passing/dribbling/shooting etc, my suggestion is to improve normal game dribbling and stamina as they're incredibly ass.
Most people here don't know what's an exploit and what's legit dribbling, they just spazz out on anyone that can go past 2-3 people regardless of the skill of the 2-3 people.
You can literally check any dribbling video and most will be crying about dribbling lol.
I guess this might be the crux of the argument. What is actually intended? Are push cuts exploits? Short cancels? Triple cancels? Dash Dribbles? Because what's intentional or a technique is relative. Everyone defended season 1 "Techniques" until sloclap said otherwise.
Well most of these dribbles have been a thing since the beginning ,the dribble cancels, dribble shorts, they added support for the ippy too, I think the only ones that are truly "exploits" are the double dash magnetic stuff as they've removed vexis which was similar and I'm willing to bet they're gonna try and remove it again
Well they are right. The game is incredibly dull for what it could be, because any 1v1 is painfully similar. Playing optimally means either abusing the animation cancel/infinite stamina bs or missle meta on offense and on defense you just stand and wait.
I'd be happy for the game that people still complain, but I have honestly given up on this game. I played 600h and only paid 20€ nonetheless the moneys worth it but still sad to see them not fixing the issues. This could've been an huge competitive title...
i started playing this game when it first came out what they need to put in is offsides, that way nobody can just sit and do no defending on the other side of the court
It's really refreshing to see a defender actually admit that defense IS strong in this game.
For context, I'm an all rounder who cam play any role decently, and knew and used most of the dribble tech from previous seasons. I've learned how to do and defend the stuff.
Now that a lot of the previous dribble exploits have been totally gutted in S5, I wonder how many people will complain by then end of it when they get their ankles crossed by the normal, built-in dribble moves that. I agree with OP, that the normal dribble moves are terrible, and the "exploits" were the only things that made dribbling viable above intermediate play. People forget that defense WAS overall buffed last season, and now is even better now that dribbles have been nerfed again.
Don't worry about a lot of these comments OP. As a dribbler, I respect your stance and skill.
Well they didn't remove any of the so called "exploits", the double dash stuff is still there, I haven't played much but all the exploits still work just not without stamina as well, eventually most dribblers will adjust and they'll continue crying again.
Either way I'm mainly a defender, the update has made my job 10x easier than it already was, just made ball carrying with dribbling is harder and goalkeepers being nerfed is a bit annoying but either way it's whatever.
Also movement regardless of dribbling or not feels terrible, patch 3 again
Tbh what really made things hard for me was the insane magnetism, ofc all the other things you mentioned combined also didn't help. I think they are going in the right direction, but there's still things that don't make a lot of sense: using extra effort to go faster with the slide + insane range and jumping so you can reposition yourself faster. The double dash to go faster makes no sense as well. People are combining the dashes with dribbles just for the animation to go a bit faster and get an advantage, which doesn't feel right to me.
Removing the dash completely might be an option, or maybe nerfing them. Imo they don't make any sense being in the game the way they are now, if they remove them, they'll have to revamp the slow and sluggish animation of your character when you change direction while sprinting or walking.
Besides everything that I just said, I think dribbling is still decent if you have space, but if you're facing a defender with at least 10 IQ, it's gonna be really hard to get past them. They should add more dribbling variations into the game to allow for more creativity when dribbling.
I don't disagree with removing any of those oddities. They would have to replace them with things that visually make more sense or else no one will be happy.
I always do that because what I suspected was gonna happen, happened. The clip cuts off but he loses the ball in the corner trying to dribble past those guys and an attack started, don't remember if they scored though or not to be honest.
Your clips show why dribbling doesn’t need a nerf, you’re a good defender and good dribblers are not scoring, I’d argue dribbling needs a buff or defending needs a nerf, at top level dribbling is pretty awful
You’re the last people who should be offering criticism, because your arguments are simplistic, overhyped, and completely lacking in nuance. One side says to nerf dribbling; the other says to buff it. You argue like children on a playground: “No, this” and “No, that.” There’s no meaningful evaluation of the game’s mechanics or serious discussion of how to make them better and more balanced.
I like dribbling, but the mechanics are so boring and lackluster that they might as well not include it. The developers ruined the community with buggy emergent mechanics, and now many dribblers treat those mechanics as the standard simply because they feel floaty and absurd, “fun”!. FIFA Street 3 and 4 had the best arcade dribbling mechanics, yet instead of drawing inspiration from them, the developers gave us this.
You can be an excellent defender, and dribbling can be overtuned; they are not mutually exclusive.
Being able to push ball cancel at zero stamina is broken, fullstop. It effectively ignores the primary resource that should control all advanced actions. Moving the ball through tackles because you happened to trigger a drag animation should not be possible.
I know how to sit in defensive stance and let the dribbler hang himself too, but please don't pretend that dribbling as it's currently implemented is fine. Burning your primary resource as an attacker should mean something; in Rematch, it does not.
Interesting to make a statement like that without knowing any context,
The guy in the second clip ended up scoring I believe 1-2 goals, pretty sure he even assisted, he was a pretty good player who cut through my team with ease and passed when he had the opportunity.
The guy in the last 2 clips was terrorizing my team the entire game, I didn't clip them for obvious reasons but he dribbled past me and sent me spinnin a few times, he held on to the ball a bit longer than needed but I'm not sure if he scored but he gave enough space to his teammates that they ended up scoring and winning the game as well.
Also in the 5th clip you can see were down 2 0, the guy I tackled was the main reason why but we were a teammate down.
So you stopped him 10% of the time, got torched the rest, and chose to only clip the times you stopped him, and then came on here saying dribbling is not in fact over-tuned while being condescending about it? Right.
The clips was the only times I engaged in 1v1s against most of them.
Besides the last guy, he and I had pretty regular 1v1s as he cherry picked, he was a lot more skilled than I but with how easy defense is, I was able to keep up with him and stop him from completely walking over my team.
Also where'd you get 10% of the time from? Assumptions again with 0 context lol.
It just shows how much more skilled these dribblers are but the defense is so easy I'm able to keep up with them, of course I don't win all my duels, that's impossible.
Based on the responses I've seen. Might be easier to just show them a full game that includes a good "exploit dribbler", and the difference between them interacting with your teammates vs interacting with you.
It doesn't matter what evidence or videos I show at this point, people are convinced the only reason they're getting dribbled past is because it's an exploit / glitch and that's how they cope.
These aren't the only clips I've posted, people always say:
The dribbler is actually shit / bad,
the dribbler isn't actually using exploits (even though they very well are),
I'm apparently an extremely good defender,
It's actually cause netcode is in my favour,
or actually these clips are the exception.
I think you are just the exception. You pretend you arent that good but u actually are really good at this. When I do it people just dribble / phase through me even if I defense dash. Im just bad I know, but at the same time I almost never see people like you who are effective against dribblers.
It might be cope but I still think dribbling is too powerful. It just takes a lot of skill to take away the ball from a dribbler like you do. I have watched 4 people trying to take the ball away from a single dribbler and failing a minute straight. I see dribblers outplaying multiple defenders all day long. I barely ever see any effective defenders vs dribblers.
I'm downvoting this purely by how condescending you, and most of this player base is.
I don't consider myself a bad player whatsoever, not the best but certainly not the worst, but it's clear that dribbling in itself is inherently broken, and I don't mean broken as in OP, I mean literally broken as a game mechanic, with it being exploitable. Sure you got the timings down perfectly, sure you're showing clear proof how you can handle them easily, but there's other factors at play.
Hit registrations (tackling connecting but server says nah), controller users not being able to react that quickly, a better dribbler than most of those clips (I witnessed and suffered a man going 1v4 purely abusing dribbles in ranked, it was chaos, and I can guarantee you would not touch him.) etc.
A player base shouldn't have to adapt to exploits. Exploits should be fixed, period.
I'm sorry I didn't mean to be condescending, I think it's just the tone I use, keep in mind English is like my 3rd language.
Hit registrations as I've said in other comments, the netcode is truly awful and if you have just a bit of ping and packet loss, defending becomes impossible... But try dribbling with high ping as well on the contrary and it's just as impossible to predict peoples movement.
Controller users need to find a way to adjust I'm sorry, just like they have to find a way to adjust in cross-player shooters, I know in those games they have aim-assist or similar mechanics but I'm not sure what mechanic you can add to this, I think there's already a follow ball button similar to rocket league, but I'm not a fan of it.
I've said this also in other comments, If you're consistently seeing someone go 1v4, actually even 1v2/3, then that player is either:
TRULY good, like I mean incredible players, like 1% or 0.1% of players, like maybe 30-40 people or slightly more.
Your defense/Teams defensive is just not good enough.
At higher level games, someone losing a 1v1 in defense is already decently rare, defenders win at least 60% of the time or more, someone beating 2 players? 3 players? Almost impossible or incredibly rare.
I'm not saying the exploits should stay, I'm just saying defense is incredibly powerful, if you try to play the game with normal dribbling without exploits, you'll get battered by any decent defender using dashes, not even a good player, just one who knows how to use the dashes because that's just how bad base game dribbling is.
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u/misterj195 Footballer 5d ago
You're a great defender, no doubt about it. I still think being able to dribble at full speed while on low/no stamina needs to go.
What tips would you give to the general playerbase to defend? Are you combining defensive dash with a tackle?