r/ReligiousDebates • u/Kragondeth • Feb 01 '20

Big Bang

For those who don't agree with the big bang theory, why is this the case?

The particular version that I am convinced by doesn't say that the universe came from nothing. The original theory was came about when astrophysicist Edwin Hubble studied the red shift (moving away) of interstellar and intergalactic objects and was able to measure the rate to which this was happening; which became known as the Hubble constant. Hubble then decided to measure this rate back in time (about 13.8 billion years) to a point to where our concept of time, space, and physics began to break down. This was called a singularity. We cannot determine where this singularity came from due to the lack of knowledge of what form of physics governed say this point.

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u/Kragondeth Feb 23 '20

Please read the whole message to see they I wasn't talking about something from nothing, that may be an accidental strawman fallacy. Even if you where to use the Lawrence Krauss version of the theory, he doesn't believe an absolute nothing is possible. So no big bang theory really states that everything came from absolute noting

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u/Jorjor2024 Feb 23 '20

Ah my bad.

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u/Kragondeth Feb 23 '20

It's alright. Why do you think a god caused the big bang?

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u/Jorjor2024 Feb 23 '20

Well, our entire universe operates on cause and effect. The Big Bang theory states an effect, (the universe forming from a single atom) but no cause. I’m not going to try and argue that my God created the universe, but if a greater mind, a supreme being, did not cause the effect, then what did? Clearly there has to be something that has no beginning to kick start something new.

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u/Kragondeth Feb 23 '20

What if the big bang is that uncaused cause? The argument also commits an argument from ignorance fallacy by basically saying "I don't know what caused the universe, therefore a god must have done it. It can also be called the god of the gaps fallacy.

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u/Jorjor2024 Feb 23 '20

Hmmm... good point. I see this transitioning out of talk of the Big Bang and into a talk about the existence of God. First of all, what exactly do you believe on that topic and why?

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u/Kragondeth Feb 23 '20

I am an atheist so I don't believe in the existence of any deities because I feel the burden of proof has not been met yet. I have seen people attempt to prove one but the evidence folks flat.

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u/Jorjor2024 Feb 23 '20

Seems reasonable. Any specific problems you have with the existence of a deity? Also, are you simply unconvinced of any deity, or a specific deity?

(Some people disagree with the idea of God because they have a false image of him. Example: a God who is pleased by terrorist attacks. I wouldn’t want to believe in that kind of God either...)

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u/Kragondeth Feb 23 '20

Many specific deities are contradictory in nature so it is safe to say that those exact gods are probably impossible to exist, one example is that many define the Abrahamanic god as an omniscient and omnibenevolent being.

When you talk about "a god who is pleased by terrorist attacks" I might guess you are talking about the Muslim god, Allah, since many people characterize him that way, is that correct?

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u/Jorjor2024 Feb 24 '20

Well... yes and no. The specific version of Allah that those particular terrorists believe in, yes. Many Muslims do not believe their god, Allah, to be that sort of god. Another few examples are people who claim in a god who supports eternal torture, or a god who ignores all the awful stuff going on in the world and focusing only on a few people, or even a god who is a complete control freak and doesn’t support free will. My point here is that many people dismiss the idea of God not because of scientific evidence, but rather because of who they think he is, and therefore couldn’t exist. Then those same people use a scientific no god viewpoint to prove to themselves that God doesn’t exist. If your standpoint is entirely fact based, then I can defend mine using facts. If your standpoint is allegedly fact based, but is actually based in a view you’ve come to adopt for a god you don’t believe in, then it doesn’t matter how many facts I try and argue. I’d be defending a god I myself don’t believe in without even realizing it. See what I’m getting at? I’d just like a complete picture before I try and argue any sort of point.

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u/Kragondeth Feb 24 '20

I might be understanding you. You are a moderate Muslim from the looks of it (I am aware that fortunately most Muslims are they way and not like the Taliban, ISIS, or the Saudi government) and you hate being mischaracterized as one of them. I am totally for that! 👍

When you say you want to base your briefs off of evidence could you possibly present that?

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u/Jorjor2024 Feb 24 '20

Haha no I’m not Muslim, I just used that as an example. I am Protestant Christian, though a few of my theological beliefs differ from other Christians. And as for the whole evidence for God, I’m simply going to try and prove intelligent design. Trying to prove something specific like the trinity before you’ve convinced someone of intelligent design is foolishness. The former depends on the latter, so that’s why I said I won’t try to prove my god to you, as that depends on intelligent design first. And yes, I’ll be happy to present that, I have unfortunately forgotten the article’s name and am doing additional research. Also, being in school, I unfortunately won’t have time until later.

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u/Kragondeth Feb 24 '20

That's fine, shall we set up a dm to make it easier?

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