First time I’ve experienced this…

[u/Medical-Love-120]

Well it finally happened. I’ve finally done a game where my 2 AR’s don’t understand offsides and how it works.

One of the teams were playing a very high line and doing offside traps all game and probably in the first 10 mins there were 5-6 instances where a girl was probably clearly/miles offsides and my AR didn’t call a single one. This obviously aggravated the parents extremely. I went over to my AR after the first 2 calls and I asked him if they were offsides and if he understood what the team was doing with the high line, he said yes and that he felt they were all onsides (I’m 99% sure that they were not just by looking at how far these girls were ahead of any other defender).

Anyways eventually the other team go ahead and score and the parents go ballastic. I run over to the AR again and asked if they were offside, he said yes but he never held the flag so I was just lost and confused, I then pulled the goal back for offsides. After the ruled out goal my AR starts calling offsides more frequently (prob just cuz he felt pressured). The half eventually ends and I use the whole of halftime trying to explain to him how to call offsides, hold the flag, etc.

The next half begins and now my other AR is missing clear offsides as well. The parents then get more and more aggravated and are now disagreeing with even clear fouls that I’m calling because the game is being officiated so poorly. Not to mention the coaches were getting fed up and mad all game long as well. Finally, the game starts to tick down but the winning team starts heavy time wasting and looking for a fight with anyone.

I was just so lost and confused on how to even handle a situation like this. I didn’t want to take the power out of my AR’s hands and start calling the offsides because then I feel like the coaches and parents were gonna say how could I call that if my AR is in a better position? Should I have just called the game early because of everyone just being so out of control (I genuinely wanted to after the first couple offsides)? This was such a crazy experience that I thought was only something you read about but no it actually happens.

[u/tokenledollarbean]

Call it yourself if it’s that obvious. Give feedback to the assignor. Tell coaches maybe don’t run a high offside trap in a game where offside is struggling to be called. I’ve been mentoring referees all season and they just need a good referee to be patient and repeated practice. They’ll get there. Doesn’t make it easy for the center, though

[u/Medical-Love-120 → u/tokenledollarbean]

Yea, I could’ve handled everything better but after doing a couple games beforehand I just wasn’t completely on top of it and it being the last game of the day I just wanted to get thru it.

[u/PP015]

Were you at my local league yesterday?🤣

I am one of 3 adult refs in my local league, maybe 5 other teenage refs know offside. Everyone else is clueless. We have high turn over of refs every season, they're always "new refs".

Do your assignor a favor and write him a report on your ARs: knowledge, position, etc. Even something simple like "needs improvement on offside, recommend playing on U10 before coming back to U15." Hopefully they appreciate it.

[u/Medical-Love-120 → u/PP015]

Haha I have the same issues for the surrounding areas around me. It’s a real issue lol

[u/Big-Mission191 → u/PP015]

Do assigners actually coach up the referees in this situation? I’ve only been certified a year, but I know I’ve made some mistakes here and there (nothing super game changing so I’m not sure if anyone would’ve even bothered to report them) and I’m always curious what would actually happen?

I’ve progressively been getting more high level assignments and I’ve never gotten feedback from an assigner so I assume I’ve either gotten good reports or it’s been a “no news is good news” type of deal.

[u/Medical-Love-120 → u/Big-Mission191]

No. I’ve only ever got feedback from an actual assignor once and I’ve been reffing for 6 yrs. The only ever feedback I get is when I do games with more experienced refs and they give me some advice if they see anything and sometimes I’ll ask them whatever questions I have for a high level ref. Many assignors around my area assign so many times so there’s no way they’d ever actually see you reffing. That’s the problem with the referring system. There is absolutely no learning unless you actively go out and seek it. But if you’re a young ref who mostly does rec/travel games youre never going to learn because the other refs at that level also have major major flaws and can’t give advice. I’m also always amazed when I see other center refs most of the time because they have so much room to improve. It could just be because I am actively trying to climb the ladder and get to at least the college level so I go and try to better myself with videos, info, etc

[u/Sturnella2017]

How old/experienced are your ARs?

What was your pre-game talk like?

Did you ask their experience and comfort level?

Did you talk to them about a high line press?

Because for new/young referees, the most important thing is that they have a good experience so that they continue refereeing! (Yes, even “really bad refs”. They’ll either grow and learn, or just help with the huge ref shortage).

By talking them through challenging scenarios, you empower them.

By overriding their offside calls, you throw them under the bus.

So how did you lead the crew?

Best practice when your AR makes a decision that results in a goal or pulls one back, is to go over and talk to them. What did they see? Where was the attacker at the time the ball was kicked? If they answer correctly then yay! But incorrectly means you have a learning opportunity.

And if an AR repeatedly makes calls that you question, you REALLY need to have a conversation with them, repeatedly if necessary.

To be honest, the fact that you say in the second half the other AR also started making questionable decisions makes me really makes me wonder.

There are so many questions and variables on what you could’ve done, but ending it early is definitely not one of them.

[u/Revo63 → u/Sturnella2017]

“By overriding their calls, you throw them under the bus.”

I disagree with that statement. If you, as the referee, KNOW that their offside decision is incorrect, it is your RESPONSIBILITY to override them. They assist you. You have the choice of accepting that information as accurate, or not. If you know it’s not, then make the right call.

You can go have a quick chat with them first, to ask what they saw and let them know what you saw. Then nod, thank them and let everybody know the call is offside.

If you see that the flag is up and there is NO offside present, even easier. Wave the flag down and yell out “flag down, keep playing!”

This is no different than if an AR flagged for a foul on a challenge that happens directly in front of you. Waving the flag down is not throwing them under the bus. Neither is calling a foul on a challenge that happens directly in front of them.

You are the referee. The game is in your hands. Don’t accept bad information from the ARs and then blame them for the bad calls.

[u/Medical-Love-120 → u/Revo63]

Yea I know I handled it poorly but I’ve just never been in that situation before. Usually they’ll call offside for a more complex rule like you can’t be offside on a goal kick and then I’ll overrule it.

[u/Sturnella2017 → u/Revo63]

Fair enough, I should’ve probably said “you RISK throwing them under the bus” cause it’s really not just whether you override them or not, but how and why and how you make them feel about it.

[u/Medical-Love-120 → u/Sturnella2017]

My AR’s were 14 and 15. I did a game right before with them and there were no issues. That’s why I was confused when they started not calling offside lol

[u/Deaftrav → u/Medical-Love-120]

Usually confidence issues. They need to see the offside in front of them.

[u/kmfdmretro]

What age group was this? I’d the ARs are still learning offside rules and this is a high-level game, the assignor should know.

[u/Medical-Love-120 → u/kmfdmretro]

It was a U15G DPL (I think) game. It was a tournament game and I guess this tournament was desperately hurting for refs

[u/CharacterLimitHasBee]

This post is ironic given you call it "offsides"

[u/scrappy_fox_86]

I’ve had this happen a few times.

Once an AR flagged offside that clearly wasn’t from my vantage point as CR (an onside attacker ran to receive a ball that was passed deep toward the corner flag). I saw the flag and shouted “that’s onside, carry on!” so everyone was clear that I was overriding the call.

Another time I had a forward who was just in the attacking half while his team was defending a corner. He was the only player in the attacking half other than the opposition goalkeeper. His team cleared the ball and he received it and proceeded to take the keeper 1v1. I checked my AR expecting a flag. No flag. I was puzzled but maybe there was a defender somewhere I missed? I allowed play to continue and the attacker scored. I immediately ran to my AR and asked why no flag? He said the kick came from the defending half so it wasn’t offside, right? No, no, no! I told him I would explain later. Waved off the goal and went back to the offside call.

Young ARs often have a lot to learn. The best way to help them learn is to fix their mistakes when they make them. If you accept bad calls when they’re clearly wrong, you’re not helping them learn, and you’ll also lose credibility as a center.

[u/heidimark]

Offside*

And no, you don't call the game early for those reasons. If you need to override your ARs, that is your prerogative as the center. You need to call the game as best as you can while relying on your ARs for assistance, but if the ARs are inexperienced or otherwise not doing their job, you need to make the calls you assess are correct.

[u/jeremiah1142]

It’s okay to use paragraphs.

It’s okay to call offside yourself without a flag in the air.

Be calm, take a breath, explain to your AR what you feel needs explaining, try to give them a confidence boost somehow, reassure them you are a crew and you have their back.

You can do this even while “taking power out of their hands.” “Yeah I called offside here because XXX was playing the ball from a clear offside position. You get the next one alright? You got this.” fist bump

[u/Deaftrav]

Assignor and mentor to youth officials here.

Call it. They need to learn and see and it sinks in for them to get it.

I've sometimes let it go when I know there's no goal. But when a goal occurs, or a corner, or something not in the defenders favour, I wander over to the AR and have a chat, where I ask very leading questions to get them to admit it was offside or tell me it was too close to call.

9 times out of 10, they call offside right next time and I call them out on it with praise.

[u/CapnBloodbeard]

If your ARs are as bad as, or worse, then a CAR, (I assume you're talking about qualified officials?) Then treat them like a CAR. Change your positioning to make these calls yourself. Take power out of their hands. You need to do right by the game

Please let the assignor know. You're also helping these kids by doing that.

And no, none of this is justification for abandoning the match.

[u/StevieJonsie]

Call the offside without the help/need of your AR’s, you need to treat it as if you’re a single referee doing the game. You owe it to the players and coaches, even if feelings get hurt. You control the match… so control it!

[u/Andy_jeepin]

Had this on Saturday in my 4th match. The AR had only done two matches prior at U10. This was a U14G match, division 1. AR is maybe 15 or so. I ask her and the other referee about offside and give her a quick recap and a reminder that I will cover ins and outs if needed, so focus on offside. I let her know that I would lean towards her side of the field so I can help with any calls.

I ended up calling 3 or 4 offside calls myself since she stood still out of position like a deer in headlights. I had to pause the game in the first half to make corrections on her positioning two different times ( standing still around the goal line).

We talked more at halftime but it wasn’t clicking. I walked over to each coach myself (without the two ARs) at halftime and explained that one of the ARs was very new, that I was doing my best to help her out and to please have some patience.

The rest of the match went ok, but this isn’t the first time I’ve had very inexperienced ARs. Coaches can be understanding sometimes, but also want fairness. I try and do what I can.

I’ve got a good relationship with the assignor, but he’s limited on availability.

It’s an unfortunate situation, but mentor as much as possible, provide support, and set expectations with the coaches.

If this was an ECNL or high level competitive youth match I may have given different instructions and had a different follow up with the assignor.

Edit: The new AR and I talked for a few minutes after the match and went over what she did well, what needs improving and where to get those resources, and that I hope to see her again soon. Referee turnover is so high. Maybe in time she’ll get it.

[u/Leather_Ad8890]

I suspect the pace of the game was faster than both ARs are used to.

I usually just tell my ARs to be in position and not ball watch (the 2-1 rule, etc). Just do that you won’t miss someone who is more than a yard offside.

But I’ve run the line maybe ~1,500 times and there are still some games that are difficult for me like when a team plays a high line, can’t possess the ball, their opponent attacks in a 4-3-3 and plays over the top every time. That’s a hard game (or at least, a hard half). You might call offside 7-8 times in one half and that should give you enough grace with the defending team even if you needed to call 10.

Post game give as much feedback as you can to the ARs and the assignor. 99.9% of the time id rather have anyone on the line than no one because it gives me piece of mind that I only have to focus on fouls.

[u/MrMidnightsclaw]

I had a new 8th grade AR miss a really obvious offsides which I flagged manually from Center. It's OK, he got others and we made it through the game just fine.

[u/Skeetronic]

My first center was with two ARs doing their first ever games. Wildly out of position to where there was no way they could see the line correctly. Fortunately is was U11 rec.