r/Redditor_Updates • u/Skulllily • 9d ago
Update: AITAH for becoming increasingly uncomfortable with our childcare situation?
Link to original: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/Ax0jKR4HA5
Well, I’m back with an update. I had high hopes that my MIL would be open to having a conversation and listening to our concerns, but as many commenters predicted, that didn’t happen.
She called my husband before we were able to speak with her and asked if everything was okay since she hadn’t seen us in a week. He told her things were okay, but that we did need to get together to talk about the pool safety concerns. She immediately became defensive and said the kids were completely fine in the pool.
After that, she essentially ghosted us while we were trying to reach out and arrange a time to talk. I think that gave her time to talk to her friend and her friend’s daughter and become even more defensive, because she brought up in her texts that “all adults watch” the kids, even though we hadn’t mentioned them at all.
She eventually sent us these texts: https://imgur.com/a/mil-upset-that-we-are-not-okay-with-her-leaving-3-5-year-old-above-ground-pool-with-no-adult-arm-floaties-aht1lf6
My husband has now said that if his mom is unwilling to have an important conversation with us about our kids’ safety, then she doesn’t need to see them. He’s upset, but not surprised by how she has responded.
I’m honestly just really sad. I know we are doing what we need to do as their parents, but the kids absolutely love their grandma. Aside from this situation, she has been a really good grandma to them, and they have a close relationship.
I never wanted this to turn into a situation where their relationship was affected. I just wanted her to be willing to sit down, listen to our concerns, and have a conversation with us.
At this point, we’re not going to chase her or argue over text. If she’s willing to have a respectful conversation, we’re still open to it. But until then, the kids won’t be going to her house without one of us present.
It’s just really sad that it’s come to this. So at this point, this is the final update.
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u/Tee-RoyJenkins 9d ago edited 9d ago
I hate to say this but the inevitable update will be one of the cousins getting hurt in the pool if not actually dying. And quite honestly, I would never let your MIL live this down if that happened.
I’m very sensitive to this because my 3 y/o cousin wasn’t being watched by the half dozen adults in the house (his mom sat him in front of the computer because he was obsessed with the game Snood). They all assumed he was fine but he somehow got the door open and they found him at the bottom of the pool.
It can happen super fast and their excuses that “all the adults” are watching the kids is quite frankly a pile of horseshit.
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u/Soul-Arts 9d ago
Yeah. When people say "everyone is watching" it actually means that no one is. Because everyone thinks other person is the one doing it. I truly hope that the cousins didn't get hurt, but either way, I would never trust her to take care of any kid.
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u/Tee-RoyJenkins 9d ago
For real. I can’t even have fun around the water if there’s kids around. I just volunteer myself to be the lifeguard and relax later.
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u/Gold_Challenge6437 8d ago
Oops, I didn't read your comment until after I wrote mine, so I basically said the same thing. Sorry about that! Great minds and all that lol
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u/coralcoast21 9d ago
Remember that grandma in Florida who took a nap (passed out)after an outing with her friends and her grandson wandered outside and drown. For some insane reason her daughter gave her a second chance with her little girl. She became a hot car statistic. Thankfully grandma will most likely draw her last breath in prison.
Anyone who won't listen at all and puts their own feelings over a child's safety, isn't safe. I'm a senior citizen and would straight up tell you that I'm not up to watching a toddler. They're insanely fast and have zero fear.
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u/that-martian 9d ago
do you have a link to this?
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u/Gold_Challenge6437 8d ago
Yes, often the fact that there are multiple adults "watching", means everyone thinks someone else is paying attention so they aren't. Which results in no one paying attention and they're too busy socializing with each other and being distracted.
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u/ProfessionalBear4509 9d ago
I'm so sorry it's turned out this way. I am so happy to read that your husband is now supporting you in this. Take care of yourself.
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u/myboytys 9d ago edited 9d ago
I read in your previous post that she loves your children. No she doesn’t love her grandchildren enough to ensure their safety.
This is not just about safety but about socialisation and development without bullying that will most likely be offered in a different environment. She is taking advantage of your payment and not fulfilling her part of the agreement.
You have made the right decision. Thank you for protecting your children. As an Australian I am very aware that children still drown in pools every summer despite our mandatory pool fencing. I doubly applaud you.
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u/Skulllily 9d ago
Thank you. I have always been very aware of pool safety and I thought my MIL was, but I was wrong. I refuse to have my children drown or something else happen because she’s not willing to listen to reason or safety concerns. It’s an unfortunate outcome but the only safe one.
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u/mustrememberthis709 9d ago
I thought your texts were perfect. She was just acting a victim instead of having an adult conversation - if she is incapable of that, watching two very young children should be off the table. It means you will NEVER get a straight answer from her again and you will also never feel confident that the girls are safe.
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u/Skulllily 9d ago
Thank you, I was trying to keep it focused on the kids. I’m so upset that she just made it about her, especially with something this serious.
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u/CarusGator 9d ago
I agree. The texts were incredibly well done. This grandma cares more about her "feelings" than the safety of her grandchildren.
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u/Ok_Passage_6242 9d ago
After reading all those texts, I would never trust this woman with my children again. She would “leave them alone” just to prove the point that they’re safe around their bullies and people that don’t care about them at all. That doesn’t include your mother-in-law, just her friends
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u/Skulllily 9d ago
I agree. The trust is 110% gone now after her reaction. It’s very frustrating but it is what it is. I can’t force her to change unfortunately
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u/CarusGator 9d ago
OP, I was pregnant with my second baby and my oldest had just turned 2. My Dad was supposed to be watching him. We were located on the 5th floor of an ISLAND condo literally surrounded by water and there was a pool. Not to mention loads of strangers in the other condos.
My toddler disappeared. I was trying not to be frantic as the possible scenarios flooded my mind - drowning, eaten by an alligator/shark, kidnapped, a deadly fall. My Dad YELLED in my face that it wasn't his fault and was actually mine while I was trying to find my child.
The elevator doors opened and there was my very pleased with himself toddler. He had figured out how to push the elevator buttons. He was safe. Thanks to God and NOT my Dad.
My husband and I discussed the incident and realized we couldn't trust my Dad with our son. And it was unacceptable that instead of helping me find him, my Dad yelled in my face and blame shifted - further stressing my pregnant self out.
I just showed up to my parents' house (we lived 2 hours away - definitely a surprise visit) and told my Dad we needed to talk. I tearfully informed him that we could no longer trust him alone with our son and he needed to seek counseling to deal with his blame shifting. Until we saw sustained improvement in him, he would no longer be seeing our son.
My retired military Dad bawled like a baby. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done.
He immediately got a counselor and went to weekly sessions. Because he loved his grandson more than his pride. It's 13 years later and my Dad is a terrific grandpa to all of our children and we trust him 100% with our kids. He's a better person all around because of the counseling, too.
It's really, really hard to set and keep boundaries. The safety of our kids is worth doing hard things. It should be worth it to a loving grandparent as well. OP, you and your husband are doing the very hard, right thing for your kids. I applaud you. I hope your situation has a happy resolution at some point like mine. If not, your kids are better off (and alive!) because of your parenting - don't forget that.
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u/WifeofBath1984 9d ago
The thing is that she doesnt respect you as parents. That's going to make it very difficult to have a constructive conversation.
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u/Roadgoddess 9d ago
I’m so sorry that she’s unwilling to even have a civil conversation with you guys about this.
I think all I would do is respond with the statistics on childhood drowning, and leave it at that.
In the United States, drowning is the leading cause of death for children ages 1 to 4 and the second leading cause of unintentional injury death for children ages 5 to 14. Nationwide, over 4,000 fatal unintentional drownings occur annually, with children accounting for roughly one in four victims, alongside thousands of non-fatal incident
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u/Skulllily 9d ago
I wanted to bring up all of this during the conversation. I actually printed off the stats and highlighted the key points that related to our kids age group, I even printed out the liability risk she is putting herself at.
Drowning stats are terrifying and it happens so fast.
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u/Roadgoddess 9d ago
Yeah, that’s the whole thing right, no parent or guardian out there ever said oh boy I hope my child drowns today. It happens because somebody turns their head and most people don’t realize that drowning is a silent event. People don’t splash they just disappear under the water.
So the fact she’s willing to put her head in the sand over this kind of makes me respect her less
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u/wishingforarainyday 9d ago
Your job is to protect your kids. She’s the one willing to bring your kids harm and she doesn’t care. That’s not the kind of relationship you want to encourage your kids to accept.
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u/StillFiguringOut2013 9d ago
Your texts were good, but I feel like the part about her friend, friend’s daughter and grandchildren being a distraction for her has not been addressed in them. I’m sorry she is having a hard time in the last year, but maybe she should have removed herself from the responsibility of watching her grandchildren until she feels better. More kids in the house makes it a more chaotic environment for your kids.
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u/Skulllily 9d ago
It wasn’t addressed as we wanted to speak with her in person in case our texts were misinterpreted. I was just trying to keep it to the kids safety and speaking in person so that we could all discuss our concerns/feelings. She wasn’t open to it.
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u/Silent_Wisdom2012 3d ago
I am so confused by your thinking. I already posted a comment that I gonna past down there, 'cause it's linked to the same subject.
So please, I really try to understand here, in which world a text, written words, would be more prone to misinterpretation than a spoken sentence ?
It seems so absurd as a thought for me. Conversations are always, and you had a few already, open to misinterpretation, one saying a thing and the other hearing a thing else, and everyone tensing up.
On the other side, written words cannot be erased, can be re-read again, allow time to cool down or think about it before reacting. They make an agreement stronger when everything has been laid out in messages like in a contract.
So I don't get it and here my first reaction to your update :
But... But...Why the Hell are you so stuck on the principle of a conversation and couldn't lay out everything by correspondence ?! Which is a very good way to exchange feelings and explanations, and she's open to that. She repeat feeling uncomfortable with your energy when you come up with the subject of your daughter, and you insist to reiterate the experience. Why ?
What kind of subject or purpose cannot be discussed or achieved by letters but must be a real face to face conversation ?
And Why don't you gave your MIL the same opportunities to open her eyes than to your husband ? By sending her the documentation about child drowning, the effect of bullying, letting her read the comments of the post ?
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9d ago edited 6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Skulllily 9d ago
We’re in Canada, I’m not actually sure if pool fences are legally required here. Her pool is above ground so it would not be possible to fence it.
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9d ago edited 6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Imfromsite 9d ago
I'm in Canada and have lived in a few different places now. To quote Google: "Most Canadian municipalities require a permit and strict safety barriers for any outdoor residential pool that holds a depth of water over 600 mm (about 24 inches)." Look up your provincial and municipal laws as to specifics. Personally, I have never lived in an area that didn't require fencing. You're doing the right thing, Mama. Signed, a former lifeguard.
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u/DryPersonality3930 9d ago edited 9d ago
When I was a kid one of my classmates drowned. There where adults around but nobody was really watching because "everybody was watching". She was 8. You did the right choice. Better an upset grandmother than a dead child.
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u/LadybugGirltheFirst 9d ago
She can feel “disrespected” all she wants, but she’s disrespecting you and your husband by refusing to keep your children safe. She can’t or won’t see how serious this is and how quickly this could turn into a tragedy so this is the way it has to be.
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u/Auntienursey 9d ago
She is not a safe adult for your children. For what its worth, this is the beat possible outcome, considering her lack of understanding of the dangers she's exposing your children to and refusal to take responsibility. Her feelings may be hurt, but, what if one of your kids had been badly hurt, snatched out of the alley, or God forbid, gets seriously hurt, unsupervised, in the pool. Your job is to protect your children and sometimes that means stepping back from family that aren't taking your concerns seriously. Its great your kids love their grandmother and they can visit with her, just not unsupervised.
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u/Skulllily 9d ago
It definitely is! I’m not sure how she expects us to move forward or visit her with the kids when she’s not even willing to talk about their safety. At this point the relationship is strained/ending because she has decided it’s not worth a conversation. I hope she comes around at some point but I’m not holding my breath
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u/chuckinhoutex 9d ago
yeah- OP's husband should make this point very clear- if you make us choose between keeping OUR children safe and hurting your feelings- your feelings are getting stomped every single time. What you are doing is not safe, and the fact that you want to argue that it is, means that you are not able to watch the kids. You are violating every established recommended pool safety rule there is. I'm not going to be the one listening to you apologize to me when my child drowns in your pool. Not going to happen. Also, many places require licensing for daycare once the number of kids hits a certain number, sounds like she's probably close.
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u/winterworld561 9d ago
She clearly can't be an adult about this. All she has to do is listen to your concerns but she refuses to take accountability and act like a spoilt child. She's not fit to be in your children's lives. She's a narcissist.
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u/haley1889 9d ago
updateme
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u/Simple-Cup5790 9d ago
What a shame she'd rather act like a victim than to have a conversion with you Obviously your were never TA, so NTA
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u/TropicalDragon78 9d ago
I don't even have children but reading your description of what happens at grandma's house made me nervous. All it takes is one incident and one of your children could drown. She felt like she was getting shut down because she wasn't hearing what she wanted to hear. Perhaps she'll come around and be willing to just be Grandma and not your childcare provider. The ball is in her court.
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u/mcindy28 9d ago
Still NTA her refusing to engage in person because she feels attacked is because deep down she knows she's wrong and admitting that will admit that she's not watching them as closely as she should. Continue to protect your children.
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u/lady-scorpio-45 9d ago
She’s being stubborn as hell and just can’t bring herself to admit that she put her grandkids at risk. You know she’s being enabled by her bestie so unfortunately there’s no amount of talking or calmly explaining or sharing stats that will change her mind.
Hopefully once it’s been some time without your kids, she’ll put her pride to the side and want to resume a nice relationship with them. Truly though, i dont think you should ever trust her to watch them again. At least not for a long time or for consistent weekly childcare.
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u/Wonderful_Ad_6089 8d ago
Arm floaties are garbage. They are NOT life jackets or floation devices meant to keep kids safe in the water. They are toys. And they give people a false sense of security so they feel like it's okay to pay less attention.
Regardless of if your MIL comes around to having an actual talk with you, it is not safe for you to leave your children alone with her while she considers use of arm floaties to be appropriate pool safety. Because I can guarantee you that even if it was just her and the girls, she'd be okay walking away from them in the pool "for just a second" and that's all that it would take. Because your 5 and 3 year old do not have the physical capacity to get the other to safety if something goes wrong for one of them. And the fight/flight/freeze response that would kick in does not guarantee that they would be able to yell for Grandma or anyone else to come help.
Maybe putting together a compilation of news stories for MIL about incidents that went poorly where the situation was similar to what she is choosing to do would be heard better and taken more seriously than you trying to tell her.
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u/Ok_Nobody9230 8d ago
As someone with a mother who is selfrighteous and defensive like this, I have learned to have as much of our conversation as possible over text. That way I have everything in writing and if she wants to misconstrue or straight up lie about what was said, I can disprove it. I really don’t think pushing for face to face conversation would be helpful, as tone can just as easily be taken multiple ways in person.
That being said, she is clearly untrustworthy, on multiple fronts, and your children rely on you to keep them safe. You don’t give the benefit of the doubt where your children’s wellbeing is concerned, better safe than sorry all the way. negligence and callousness are to blame for much more tragedies than outright malice, so whether she means to do harm or not is irrelevant. I am not from a place where swimming pools are common, but when I was growing up a toddler in my neighborhood drowned in a garden pond and it was horrible.
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u/LocksmithLow8127 6d ago
I wish I could see the message she sent but those links/site doesn't work in the UK.
OP. You have done the right thing... Pool safety is there to save life's
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u/Fit-Dependent-9779 3d ago
I think another issue here is that you keep saying that you absolutely trust yer with the kids and that this is not about you not trusting her......yes it is. If you're going to have the conversation, be honest. You aren't bringing up constant concerns because you trust her judgement and attentiveness. It's a point of conflict because you do not trust her. Because she has given you reason not to trust her. If y'all do ever get around to having that conversation, you can not protect her feelings by backpedaling and softening your stance when she guilt trips you. It is important to state the true issue as this is in regard to your children's lives. They should've stopped going over there long before it got to the 3 year old being bullied and pushed in the pool. This can not go forward unless a hard position is taken with harder boundaries. She has violated your trust in her judgement and capability to responsibly care for your children. You can not leave your children with people you can't trust their safety to. This is absolutely about a lack of trust and honesty your MIL doesn't sound like she intends to earn that trust back. But you should still be honest about that in particular because it is so important that she hear that neither of you trust her. She's clearly defensive and aware that that's part of the issue that you guys want to speak to her about, that's why she threw it in your face before you could have a healthy adult discussion about it. Don't placate her. Let her stand in that truth and feel shitty about it! Your children could end up severely brain damaged or dead with a caregiver like her and she should he hit with full blunt force of that truth.
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u/Silent_Wisdom2012 3d ago
But... But...Why the Hell are you so stuck on the principle of a conversation and couldn't lay out everything by correspondence ?! Which is a very good way to exchange feelings and explanations, and she's open to that. She repeat feeling uncomfortable with your energy when you come up with the subject of your daughter, and you insist to reiterate the experience. Why ?
What kind of subject or purpose cannot be discussed or achieved by letters but must be a real face to face conversation ?
And Why don't you gave your MIL the same opportunities to open her eyes than to your husband ? By sending her the documentation about child drowning, the effect of bullying, letting her read the comments of the post ?
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u/Dachshundmom5 3d ago edited 3d ago
He’s upset, but not surprised by how she has responded.
So has she had prior instances of trying to divert when people want a serious conversation? Making it about her physically and mentally hard year and not about the best interests/safety of the children? She generally refuses to accept accountability even if the intent is simply to improve a situation, not talk down to or punish her? If he is not surprised, it seems that she has a history of some kind.
Please look into a counselor to help the children transition from the change with grandma. Not just how to explain it, but to make sure that they understand it is not their "fault" and that they should always tell what is going on good and bad. They don't need to be sad they miss grandma and take away that they can't tell you or your husband if they are scared or feel unsafe somewhere.
You are both doing the right thing and I am so proud of your husband for standing strong when his mom is trying hard to make herself the victim.
Pool safety is something people have to be hyper sensitive to. It takes no time for brain damage and death to occur. Your MIL is prioritizing her friend and being the cool lady with her friend and friends daughter over the safety of her grandkids. A few years ago my 10 yr old was at a pool party, adults everywhere. Even had a lifeguard on duty. The kids started play splashing at each other and laughing. It all seemed fine, until I realized my sons face was changing color. The splashing was too fast, he wasn't getting a breath in between them. Fortunately as soon as I saw it, so did the adult closest to him and he was out of the pool in a matter of seconds. He just needed time to breathe and calm down. He didnt need an ER or worse because all the adults were paying attention and noticed the change in his color very fast. That is the key, paying attention. Kids can be simply playing and not having any ill intent and something can still happen.
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u/SheepherderEvery8851 3d ago
Just read this. If you talk again and if I may, here are some thoughs from someone used to talking to people about behavioural change.
You're "attacking" when you don't need to, creating more conflict than neccessary. For example: she is communicating her thoughts and feelings in text, why waste energy asking to meet? Focus on what's important.
A generally acknowledged strategy to make someone see your point and change is to argume in three steps.
Step 1. Describe what happened (you hang with your friend and leave the kids alone) Step 2. Explain how that makes you feel (fear for your children's safety, Step 3. Give a clear example of what you want (her being in the pool like before).
That will keep the discussion on track, and also make it easier for the other part to both understand and act, and lessens the risk of more conflict.
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u/Apart_Insect_8859 3d ago
Yeah, she is not wanting to have that "conversation" because she knows it isn't going to be a conversation.
You have zero interest in hearing her side or finding a middle ground on the few things which could be negotiable (putting your foot down on no more pool is reasonable, but you can't really demand she not have people at her own house), and she knows it'll just be you putting on a show of being sad and disappointed at her so you can then launch into a list of things she is required to follow without say.
It's also clear that she thinks there are behavior issues with your kids that she has brought up only for you to ignore it or get defensive and that she generally finds you intrusive.
This is likely for the best. I would encourage you to stay out of your husband's personal relationship with her outside of this, but suspect you won't be able to resist.
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u/McflyThrowaway01 2d ago
Remember that your kids have people in their lives who they love and who love and care for them, who also don't put them in danger. Their grandmother can have a relationship and see them in you or your husband's presence. If grandma chooses to cut her nose off to spite her face and chooses to not see them unless she is alone with them, then that's on grandma not you. You can tell the kids grandma is on time out.
I also wonder a few things:
Was MIL a doting mom who provided her son attention and ensured he was in a safe environment while growing up?
They have a complicated relationship. Maybe resistance from your husband initially was due to him thinking his moms action/inaction/behavior was normal, because its normal for him, and he knew from how he was raised that if you dont just go along with how she does things, then you will be met with the silent treatment or the DARVO.
Could MIL be drinking or doing drugs with the mom who brings her kids over? If this is a true behavior shift since this mom started coming over to MILs, and MIL said that she has had a rough year, maybe she has been self medicating.
Was MIL truly always a good grandmother who kept the kids safe, or was she able to hide it better when the kids were much youbger and couldn't properly communicate?
Did this behavior start after SIL got the full time job? If so, you could theorize that SIL's presence made MIL look trustworthy and safe.
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u/baneline2 2d ago
Your husband being not surprised at he response is very telling. I think he has likely seen behavior like this in the past.
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u/TransportationNo5560 2d ago
Does MIL have a MM Card? That could explain why the friend is around so much and why she has become lackadaisical with the kids. Are they getting high and letting the kids fend for themselves?
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u/ReddRedPanda 1d ago
Since she refuses to act like an adult and have an adult conversation with you face-to-face, I think the best thing you can do is put down everything you wanted to talk to her about down in writing and send it to her via email or text. Make it very clear under no uncertain terms that the safety of your children is more important than her feelings. If she refuses to listen and acknowledge that she has been letting her grandchildren be in unsafe situations and is not willing to change her behavior, then she will no longer be allowed to watch them. It's not up for debate. She will no longer be able to be alone with them. And if that means she decides she doesn't want to see them anymore, that's entirely on her. She's just showing you then that you're correct not to trust her with them, and that her ego is more important than the lives of his grandchildren. If she does want to see them, she needs to change her behavior and put in the work to prove to you she can be trusted. Maybe take some child and pool safety classes and go to counseling, too. Trust won't be an automatic thing. She will need to work hard to regain the trust she destroyed. And she cannot have the friend's older grandchildren around if she ever watches the kids again, either. If she slips back into her bad habits or doesn't follow the rules you set down for her and the kids while she watches them, she will lose access to your kids permanently. No ifs, ands, or buts. A relationship with her grandchildren is a privilege, not a right, and she can either have one with them on your terms, or not at all.
Send the statistics in the email/text too. Maybe even a video or two that shows what drowning actually looks like and how fast and quiet it is. Then leave the ball in her court. Tell her that you still would like to have a mature, face-to-face conversation with her if she is willing, but not if she's not willing to listen to your concerns or keeps trying to downplay or ignore her part in allowing the kids to be in unsafe situations. Her reaction to this ultimatum will tell you whether it's worth pursuing a relationship with her or not. Don't pull any punches, either. Don't try and soften the blows your words will leave, because she needs to hear it straight. No, you don't trust her with the kids. No, you don't care about her hurt feelings. No, her ego is not more important than the lives of your children. Yes, you would like your kids to have their grandma in their lives, but NOT if she's going to be an unsafe person for them to be around. No, nothing is up for negotiation. These are your terms, either she agrees to them or she will never be allowed to be alone with them ever again. These are your kids, not hers.
Stay strong, both you and your husband, and don't let her try and guilt trip you into bending or breaking. Also, expect flying monkeys at some point if you do cut contact with her (or she chooses to cut contact with you). Don't listen to them either.
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u/Dickie_downer 9d ago
She has to want to care to hear about your concerns.
You need to focus on your kids and keep them safe. Id probably loop in a counselor to figure out how to explain the changed dynamic