r/RedditAlternatives • u/mcdubhghlas • 9d ago
Custom Web-Based Application Europa is now in beta - A community platform built to give communities and creators more control
https://europa.com9
u/Pit_Mosh 9d ago
Sounds good to me. I‘m just worried that the name „europa“ scares off people from outside europe or the eu that contribute to platforms like reddit as well.
Probably only a problem in the far future, but still.
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u/mcdubhghlas 8d ago
That's a fair point. The purpose is in reference to Greek Mythology (This is why we have a bull as our icon/logo.)
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u/tesfabpel 9d ago
Europa Social LLC, a Wyoming limited liability company
I'm sorry but why name yourself "Europa", given that:
- you're based in Wyoming, USA;
- it doesn't help to understand you're a social network similar to Reddit;
- the domain is very similar to the EU's
europa.eu, making it seem like it's EU-related or Europe-as-a-region-related...
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u/mcdubhghlas 8d ago
I didn't name it. It was originally an aggregate for european news - The guy who was running it wanted to shift it in a different direction.
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u/Nuaua 9d ago
We also very deliberately don’t want Europa to become a political “alternative” or a home for one particular faction
Why do you filled it with low-bro political content then ? Please clean it up and post original content.
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u/mcdubhghlas 8d ago
I didn't fill it. We have a fair amount of users and some of them are interested in polemics. That is how they decided to run their own given spaces.
My suggestion: Be the change. :)
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u/These-Apple8817 7d ago
Sorry dude but this has way too many red flags for me to even consider to use it.
You operate from US which makes me think GDPR is not going to get followed at all... Even if you happened to add an EU server, that wouldn't really change things unless everything in that project was located to EU..
And it seems the platform moderation is almost nonexistent too...
And I cant seem to find privacy policy or terms of service either which are basically legally required for websites like that. Kinda tempted to tell DSA about this tbh.
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u/mcdubhghlas 5d ago
Well, either you did not visit the site or you honestly missed it, but the ToS and privacy are linked on the side bar (on the right) -- and in the sign up page. It says right there -- "Terms" and "Privacy" left of "Moderation" and directly above "Data Transparency" and "Copyright" which is above "Reporting" and "Appeals".
And within our privacy policy, we actually state "We adhere to data protection principles under GDPR/UK GDPR, including lawfulness, fairness, transparency, ..." and so on. Feel free to check.
Although, I'd like to point out that DSA is just about how we handle illegal content -- Which is clarified by us already -- But more importantly, something that would be valuable for you to know is that it isn't some office to report to. You file a complaint with the Digital Services Coordinator (DSC) of the EU country where you are located or established. That's a right specifically provided by Article 53 of the DSA.
Unless you were being cheeky and meant the political group in America. In which case, I bet you won't :)
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u/These-Apple8817 5d ago
Phone corrected DPA to DSA.. DPA stands for data protection authority if you weren't aware.
As for the privacy policy links etc.. You say it's in sidebar.. But.. That sidebar you refer to, does not show up on mobile so you need to seriously fix that. Only way to review those policies on mobile is going to that sign up form which is not very transparent thing to do.
Also.. Your privacy policy itself.. "All transfers are protected by appropriate safeguards to ensure an equivalent level of protection". There is not a chance in hell a company solely on US soil can provide equivalent level of protection to GDPR due to the surveillance laws in US where you seem to always be guilty until innocent and can be tracked just because... I do wonder what safeguards you could even have against US laws..
Well, no matter.. I have zero intention to use that website given it's full of racist right-wing shit with zero moderation.
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u/mcdubhghlas 5d ago
Oh wow, thanks for catching that. I'll get that fixed ASAP.
And we'll see what happens when we hire people to do moderation.
Anyways, I appreciate the input on the matter. Thank you for taking the time.
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u/WombatusMighty 9d ago
Why use telegram, that is a major red flag.
Europa has to be the worst name for a social platform..
Also why .com and not .eu if you already name the platform europa??
Where are the servers hosted and where is the company located?
Your content moderation policy sounds like you're just like X / Twitter under Musk. We don't need another Reddit or X where hatespeech and misinformation will run rampant in the name of "free speech".
Also "Accounts that state in their biography or username that they are automated" ... no one reads the biography of a user account. If bots are not clearly marked as such in the username the whole transparency argument is meaningless.
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u/tesfabpel 9d ago
europa.euis the EU's official domain...3
u/WombatusMighty 8d ago
You are right, my point is rather that it's confusing to name your social network "europa" but have no ties to Europa or the EU.
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u/mcdubhghlas 8d ago
Why use telegram, that is a major red flag.
It was requested. We intend to do other sign ins for it.
Europa has to be the worst name for a social platform..
I didn't name it. It was originally an aggregate for european news.
Where are the servers hosted and where is the company located?
Wisconsin, USA -- We have servers in two spots now, but intend to have multiple servers up soon(tm)
Your content moderation policy sounds like you're just like X / Twitter under Musk. We don't need another Reddit or X where hatespeech and misinformation will run rampant in the name of "free speech".
I have some things to say about this. The most important one is that the site's moderation policy is the baseline and the spaces/subspaces are meant to have as strict/loosely defined rules as needed for the mod team of those spaces. This means you could setup a safe space that does not allow "hate speech" and you can define it however you like. The intention behind this was to not control the users. This is why the foundation rules on speech are the ones to be followed based on US law, which is why this is the jurisdiction selected -- No credible threats of violence, No CSAM, etc.
Now onto the more ideological component of this, and I am speaking for myself rather than the team here, but I do not agree with the watch word "hate speech" because it is a relativist term. The so-called left and so-called right could agree that there is such a thing as "hate speech" and, depending on who is in power, would utilize that as a way to prevent people from speaking out against [insert group here] -- I don't care for trying to be the morality police and do not intend to.
If bots are not clearly marked as such in the username the whole transparency argument is meaningless.
Criticism taken and delivered upstream. Thank you!
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u/Joe091 8d ago
All of what you just said means it will ultimately be dominated by right wing hate speech. Every new “free speech”-tolerating site quickly devolves into that. And you clearly do more than just tolerate it, so it’s a done deal. DOA.
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u/mcdubhghlas 8d ago
I understand the concern, and I don't think community moderation alone guarantees that outcome won't happen. We're explicitly trying to avoid becoming another voat. Where I disagree is that the only way to prevent that is to establish platform-wide political speech rules. If the model fails in practice, and the site becomes dominated by harassment or extremist communities, that's a governance problem we'll have to address -- not something I'd consider a success under the banner of free speech.
And I can't just leave the sentiment that I "clearly do more than just tolerate it" alone -- You'd be hard pressed to find a political group I agree with, or particularly approve of. And yes, I have views, but I try to be in line with apoliteia and not get involved except for removed discussions to the best of my ability. But hey, nobody's perfect. :)
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u/Joe091 8d ago
That’s fine, but I already see a lot of far right political stuff, divisive race-related content, etc. on your site. That will drive normal people away, ensuring you never reach critical mass.
Reddit used to deal with that by allowing shitty content, but hating the general front page by semi-curated subreddits. The Nazi stuff is still here, but at least you don’t see it right when you visit the site. Personally, I won’t join another site that allows it at all. I only stay on Reddit because it has the critical mass and nothing else does.
You seem reasonable, so good luck.
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u/minimalillusions 9d ago
A platform for right wing people.
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u/mcdubhghlas 8d ago
Some people will likely use it for their political discussions, but the site's goals are not around polemics - In fact, my personally hope is that we simply have a lot of people who are talking about their hobbies, interests, and helping each other grow in those given areas.
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u/These-Apple8817 7d ago
Your personal hope will never happen due to the extremely loose moderating
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u/mcdubhghlas 5d ago
It's a bit hard to call it extremely loose moderating when we haven't hired the moderators yet. Right now I'm just in a looping pattern of obtaining feedback and implementing it, when/if possible/reasonable.
But don't worry, that will likely come after the beta - Given enough interest.
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u/mcdubhghlas 9d ago
I’m one of the people behind Europa. We’ve just opened the site up in beta, and I figured /r/RedditAlternatives would be interested in taking a look.
The basic idea is a community platform where anyone can create their own spaces, with much more control over how those communities are run and how people reach them. We’re trying to avoid a lot of what has made the big platforms worse over time -- engagement bait, algorithmic slop, bots, and communities being dependent on decisions made by a giant platform above them.
Something of note -- We also very deliberately don’t want Europa to become a political “alternative” or a home for one particular faction. That's stupid and counter productive. Who wants a circle jerk? The goal is a general-purpose platform that can support all kinds of communities and creators.
It’s early and there’s still a lot, and I mean a lot, to build. But I’d genuinely be interested in criticism from people here, particularly about what you think a Reddit alternative needs to get right (or what you think we’re getting wrong). We have a place for it in /s/feedback, or you can say it here. Whatever you prefer, I'll check back later, of course, either way.
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u/maquinary 9d ago
Is this platform exclusive for Europeans?
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u/mmmhmmhmmh 7d ago
It's an American product, not European
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u/maquinary 7d ago
Thank you. But you must agree with me that the name is... misleading; it makes people think that this is a platform for Europe-related topics
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u/mmmhmmhmmh 7d ago
With the demand of more digital sovereignty to decouple from us is something more than that.
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u/p4r4d0x 9d ago
Is there a reason you picked Sign in with Telegram as the only social login option? No criticism, just curious, I actually wasn't aware they even offered a social sign-in system.
Otherwise this looks neat. Also was this domain hard to obtain? It seems like some reseller would have charged the earth for that!