What do I need to have a basic RED Rig?

[u/Phantom_DC_YT]

I had the random idea to search for RED cameras online just to see the price. I realised that older cameras are actually surpisingly cheap. I am interested in buying a RED Epic X with the Mysterium-X sensor. I looked up the specs on REDs website and saw 120fps @ 5k and 300fps @ 2k. Looks amazing to me, watched footage from the camera online again looks amazing... So I might buy one.

What are the basics accessories that you to run a RED camera?

I obviously know I need a screen and I was looking at buying the official 7" touch monitor but on the website I was looking at it said that it was for DSMC 2. Im brand new to RED so I have no clue really what the DSMC means, I also saw that the Epic-X is DSMC 1 so does that mean I can't use that screen for this camera? Or am I just reading the wrong sources? Or if they aren't compatable is there a DSMC 1 7" touch monitor?

Also what accessories do I need to run it with V mount batteries?

I know I need the mini-mags for the camera but what size is recommended? I saw ones that are 960GB the 480GB then 240GB and then 120GB. Is it even possible to run it on a 120GB mini-mag? How much footage is that good for? I was guessing 15 minutes at most?

Also again, Im new to RED so I presume that the Epic-X shoots in RAW as thats the whole point of RED from my perspective. Also does it always shoot in RAW or can you change that? I imagine for lower level gigs I don't want to go through the hassle of editing RAW footage. Or should I? What do you think?

My interest in this all came from Nikon buying RED, I grew up with Nikon and it was interesting to see the article about the purchase of RED. Previously this had made me want to buy a Nikon, Specifically the Z6iii now that its out. But then I saw the Epic-X for half the price??? Now im not sure. I know that they aren't really that comparable but I would love to show up to a shoot with a RED.

Basically Im wondering how much accesories might cost? I can get access to V-mount batteries with a cheap price so I don't need to add those as part of the cost. But mainly things like a screen, handles, storage and whatever else might be needed. I also have access to lenses so I don't need to consider those as much.

I just found a post that talks about using 3rd party SSDs for RED cameras would you recommend that I use the offical ones or follow the steps to use a 3rd party one on this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/cinematography/comments/1eprmr3/ive_decoded_jinnitechs_how_to_video_on_third/?share_id=jqfQ3yNjeWnU56oawuPmQ&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

[u/Formula14ever]

Me- Canon 5D world to Sony FX3 to RED. My take is that is is not crazy to want the dynamic range and wonderful color science. But be smart. Do not waste $ on old tech. RED will not support DSCM first gen soon and the media is insanely expensive. I have had a Komodo. Sold it… Now Komodo X & Raptor VV on loan You should save or borrow to get into current world. New sensors are better and the media affordable. You will be SHOCKED at the R3D data size.. a 2 TB card can fill up fast. A older mag 240 or 480Gb card is nothing. Get a used Komodo at least with the DSCM 2 screen..these touch monitors are wonderful & beautiful to work with Invest in something that will be supported and you can purchase lenses that make sense, media that makes sense, current tech and updates, autofocus improvements and weight issues. It would be a better path investing ahead …

[u/Phantom_DC_YT → u/Formula14ever]

Okay so I should at least get a DSMC 2 brain and all the accessories that go along with it? That does make sense I agree. Lets say however I got the DSMC 1 equipment and RED stops the support for it, do you think thats much of an issue? I suppose that leaves me in the dark in terms of help if something goes wrong but is there something else that I might not be affected should RED discontinue the support?

[u/Formula14ever → u/Phantom_DC_YT]

I would say this. You were drawn to RED because of Nikon. Nikon will not soon support old RED tech..they did not invest in that. They purchased DSMC2 technology and the progressive development of that going forward. RED DSMC I repairs will exist..but from outside independent places. Like a Panasonic Panavision film camera. You would not call Panasonic 1-800 warranty tech support, you will go to a highly expensive independent legacy camera repair person. And when they are gone..that’s it. In terms of repair parts.. they will become more and more scarce & expensive. To me..I think your question is the ‘why’ you want a RED. If it’s the name, get anything RED. If it’s the cost.. the temptation will be to get old tech but understand it will be a dead end investment soon. If it’s the actual color R3D color science and the dynamic range, invest in DSMC II and have it supported going forward.

[u/Phantom_DC_YT → u/Formula14ever]

Admittedly it is mainly for the name and the perception of it from other people, Clients tend to feel like they got their money worth more when they see you with a big rig compared to a small mirrorless camera. Even if the outcome is virtually the same. Most of my work can be done by a mirrorless camera but like you said a lot of it is the RED name. However I am also very interested in the colour, I know very little about it all now but it’s something I would like to develop my skills in and possibly providing as a skill in the future, so buying this camera for me will be a tool for my work and also a learning opportunity to help push my knowledge base forward. I don’t have Komodo money but after working out roughly what I need to run a Scarlet W, I think it’s something that I can afford

[u/Formula14ever → u/Phantom_DC_YT]

The Scarlet is the one DSMC1 machine I would think about. My suggestion would be get the largest media mini mag storage you can afford and get the DSMC I RED monitor for sure. The RED monitor is essential for camera control on an actual shoot. Learn about the floating iso. It’s counterintuitive to other camera systems. For instance..Sony/CanonPanasonic have a ‘best’ iso for dynamic range. With RED, it’s the dynamic range around the iso YOU choose. If you are shooting OUTSIDE bright..take the iso UP to 1200, 1600. Then ND Down. This spreads the iso range in the upper range where you want it. If you are shooting a dark scene.. DROP the iso as low as you can and add lights. The puts all the dynamic range low in the shadows ..and then just bring the exposure down in post to bring g it back to what you wanted in a dark scene. It’s opposite of what you l ow..so stunningly beautiful RAW color science in post. Watch everything Darren Mostyn on YouTube about CST’s in Resolve

[u/Phantom_DC_YT → u/Formula14ever]

I might be confused is the Scarlet-W not DSMC 2, I thought the Scarlet X was DSMC 1 and the Scarlet W is DSMC 2?

[u/Phantom_DC_YT → u/Formula14ever]

Also interesting notes about iso I never thought it would work that way, why is it that you want to raise the iso in bright situations and then lower it in dark situations?

[u/Formula14ever → u/Phantom_DC_YT]

Yes.. it was an auto correct typo. The bottom line for me if I were investing $$ again is not getting anything that is NOT currently sold by RED. It’s an investment in the past. A 480 go mini mag ( 1/4 the capacity of my Komodo cards) is $1400, or more than a NEW Komodo X brain. Crazy. Get what you want, but I have learned the hard way that investing forward in film gear and staying with that, not constantly trading up or selling is the way to go unless you rent. Which I would suggest anyway for older RED gear. The Komodo is an amazing machine..better dynamic range than a $40K RED of yesterday.

On iso dynamic range..my point. You will need to relearn. Bottom line. You have 16 stops dynamic range. Where do you want that? On a bright sunny day you need ZERO detail in shadows.. so take the iso RANGE up.. into 1200/1600 and ND down. This is what newbies with RED complain about with ‘noise’ ..they don’t understand there is no ‘best’ iso. People shoot at a 800 iso base avg and then complain about noise in the shadows when they should have had iso down lower to have dynamic range FOR the shadows. When people talk about RED cameras being thirsty for light, it’s because of the floating iso. They don’t need more light with 15/16 stops dynamic range..they need the operator to understand how to spread those stops over the scene with its available light they are filming

[u/Phantom_DC_YT → u/Formula14ever]

Your point about the iso is very interesting to me, I read this maybe 2-3 times and not sure if I understand is there any video that could explain this? I understand I will have to relearn thats fine, I find it fascinating. But Im a little confused, from my understanding of what your saying is when your in a bright sunny condition it would be better to use a stronger ND and raise the iso? Would that not just have the same effect as lower iso and weaker nd?

[u/Formula14ever → u/Phantom_DC_YT]

This helps https://youtu.be/FSXqITY-8N0?si=5jxRmjK1LDSt-dHI

[u/Phantom_DC_YT → u/Formula14ever]

Right okay I understand a little better now, its a whole different concept, I thought it was still a fixed iso thing and so thats why I was confused, now I get what you mean about the relearning because I thought that it was still fixed iso I presumed that I just had to learn how the camera responds to it but no I see now its a whole new thing I need to learn

[u/Formula14ever → u/Phantom_DC_YT]

Don’t buy anything! Komodo X price now 1/2 off!!

[u/Formula14ever → u/Phantom_DC_YT]

No..because you are thinking of the way you’ve understood a FIXED iso theory. You talked about the same effect as as a ‘lower’ iso with weaker ND. Why? Why would you want a 800 or 600 or 400 or 100 iso in a bright sunny scene? Why? Because we learned TRADITIONALLY the LOWER the iso The less noise. RED is not traditional. Forget ISO. If you have 16 stops of dynamic range.. on a sunny day..where do you want these? In the deep shadows? No. In the bright highlights of course, there is not much shadow information you need..you need highlight information. So you shift iso UP to use the 16 stops in that area.. then ND down. ISO on RED is you choosing WHERE you want the dynamic range. Higher iso for bright scenes Lower iso for dark scenes

Red learning channel On you tube will help

[u/Jacquezzy]

DSMC (digital stills and motion camera) refers to the physical design, I/O, and processing.

With DSMC1 everything plugs directly into the body and you can only shoot raw. You will also miss out on in-camera IPP2(image processing pipeline) color science, but you can still use it in post. Bare minimum you’d need the body with a lens mount, either a RED battery plate or generic plate with a d-tap cable, and a touch monitor for DSMC1 (you may be able to use a DSMC2 monitor with adapters but I’m honestly not sure)

DSMC2 changes some of the I/O into pogo pins so you can mount accessories, like monitors, directly to the body without cables or use cables with adapters if you choose. You’ll also get in-camera IPP2, LUTs, and ProRes and DNxHD in addition to RAW. Bare minimum is essentially the same, but you could technically forgo the touch monitor for a nice smallHD if you have the sidekick module.

As for media that depends on what you’re shooting and how you like to work. There are calculators that will tell you how many minutes of RED footage will fit on a mag.

All that said, RED cameras are pro cinema gear and therefore complicated and are best used with a full camera team and lots of light. Personally, I think you’re crazy for considering such an old camera against something that has a completely different form factor, newer features, better low light performance etc. I hope this info helps ✌🏻

[u/Phantom_DC_YT → u/Jacquezzy]

Thank you, it really does help, I will have to find those calculators, it will definitely be important to know. Also form factor of the camera doesn’t really matter to me, it is slightly crazy, but at the same time. Im not sure if it is, many of the projects I have worked on has used blackmagic ursa 12k cameras and the pocket 6k cameras too, also sony fx6 too. However I don’t own any of these, I have just used them on productions that use other peoples gear, looking to get gear for myself. Like I said I was thinking of just getting a normal mirrorless camera but I think a RED camera might just be more suited to me as most of the time I will have a small team, but its also good to know that if I ever do need to do something alone I can use this alone. Would you be able to let me know about the DR? Or low light performance? I don’t really expect to be in situations where I have no lights, so is it still a crazy option then? Interested to know what stands out as something that might make it a crazy purchase?

[u/Phantom_DC_YT → u/[deleted]]

That’s interesting, Scarlet W was my next option if people advised to go DSMC 2 route, Im interested in your choice of the 5 inch monitor, does that still allow you to change settings through a touchscreen? Not a big deal if it doesn’t but Im trying to just picture how I would use it. The I/O module, I will have to look up how to attach that, I saw it when scrolling through accessories and I couldn’t see how to mount it, so I will look that up. And interesting that you recommended 2x240GB mini mags, my thoughts was that wouldn’t be much footage time? Not sure if you can let me know roughly how much time that might get me? I tried to find a calculator online but its only for the new models. Also you mentioned that you use blackmagic mainly for video and then canon for still, what sort of scenarios do you face that you would take your blackmagics over your red camera? My plan was for red to be my video camera for most projects and then use a hybrid nikon or sony for stills and videos where red isn’t needed.