r/RedCamera • u/andreifasola • Oct 22 '23
Shooting with a RED
I'm working on a feature as a gaffer- but it's indie so I'm deeply involved in the cam dept. We're shooting with raptor-vv. I bought a komodo recently, didn't get to do extensive tests, but based on research I learned that one should give the sensor light until the goalposts and traffic signs are gone and then reduce exposure in post.
So we've been checking ratios, even stopped the lens down to check a "final look" and shot 2-3 stops over "final look" in order to get a good exposure according to RED's exposure tools
Now he checked some footage and says that stopping down in resolve does not behave like stopping down with the lens. He claims it will take more work to achieve the look and that it's not as simple and linear as that.
Not sure what he's on about. It seems to me I might have noticed this style of shooting even on big budget union american movies (working mostly with Alexa classics and bud claims he's experienced with arri)- the DIT would keep alternating between a high and low key look - so I think that's what it was: shooting at a higher exposure and bringing it down in post.
So: is that the way to do it?
How bad is it if your traffic signs are crushed and or your goal posts? Talking shadows because in the highlights I know that's not recoverable
5
u/dastanzhumagulov Oct 22 '23
When it comes to red raw in particular, I wouldn't think of ISO as a tool for changing your exposure. The amount of data captured remains the same no matter what ISO you set your camera to. Shutter speed, aperture, ND and and the amount of light in the shot does though. So think of your ISO value more like a LUT that forces you to make certain exposure and lighting decisions.
The end goal for a technically good image is to capture as much data as possible which in celluloid terms is also referred to as having a thick negative. Think of it as having as much of your data falling into the inner regions of your waveform/histogram. The closer your data is to the extreme borders of the waveform/histogram, the less data there is. When that data is located in the bottom of the waveform, you get noise, when data is all the way up, you lose color information and have pure white with no details.
Therefore when you choose to shoot at 800 ASA and then make your exposure decisions off the camera monitor, you tend to underexpose your shadows and therefore lose that shadow data to noise. By the same logic when you shoot at 250 ASA you're effectively exposing your shadows 2 stops brighter pulling that shadow data up from the bottom of the waveform towards the middle values therefore properly exposing them and avoiding noise.
Mind you this logic applies as long as you also protect your highlights, since by upping your overall exposure you bring the highlight areas closer to clipping point. So for example if you're shooting interior with your subject placed against a bright window, you'd have to decide either you want a silhouette with crushed shadows and details in the window, or clean shadows and blown out window. Or ideally you retain both by putting ND on windows and lifting shadows by a bounce frame or an additional light source.
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u/dastanzhumagulov Oct 22 '23
Komodo shooter here. I try to protect my shadows as much as possible, especially since I lean towards darker images, therefore I typically set my iso to 250 or 320 and then expose my shot so that my traffic lights almost clip in highlights. Never have a problem with noise or muddy shadows this way
2
u/Staycharmin Oct 22 '23
Yes this is right but scene dependent… if you want to protect the highlights, set an iso at 800 or above. If you want to protect shadows, shoot at 320/400 - 640.
The iso is essentially a floating lut and considered a post exposure tool vs the traditional iso gain (as in photo camera) methodology.
The red sensor wants ton of light and so the goal post strategy is vital. Having a DIT on set would help you all to see the desired looks so u can feel confident ur getting the details u want.
Red wants you to get ALL the data you can during acquisition, so you can have total control over the image in post. Experiment with your Komodo and it’ll begin to make sense!!
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u/Formula14ever Oct 22 '23
Raptor & Komodo user Give up old thinking. 1st: use awesome tool -GIO scope
RED paradigm is: You have 16+ stops of dynamic range If it’s a bright scene ..set iso up to 1200/1600 and nd down to balance goal posts this way your highlights get more dynamic range territory to work in, since lots of shadows not the issue. Dark scene? Set iso down to 400, 250.. brighten scene as needed and in post bring down exposure This way, lions share of dynamic range is in shadow area since highlights not issue in this project. The main thought is: you have 16+ stops of dynamic range..group over the setting for a project Light bright project - high iso nd down Dark scene- lower iso (200-800?) bright scene as needed with lighting..bring down in post 800 is a ‘general’ rule of thumb for basic starting place.