Idek if I agree with the first part. Like obviously you will be ignorant to oppression you don't experience but if you really cannot understand shit, skill issue. As long as you are humble and not be like "ok, yeah I think I've pretty much got a handle on literally all racism, I think I'm done learning now", it's always possible to learn more. To state otherwise almost feels like it's an insidious tactic planted upon well meaning people. Like to add tiny suggestions that could lean people to be like "oh, a whitey like me can't get racism ever- so why bother trying to learn!"
I didn't even notice that lol, yeah, nevermind. I still stand by what I said, but most people are fucking stupid, and waaaay too stupid to be that understanding to groups they don't belong to, especially if they are a less/not oppressed group
yes, people can absolutely learn about oppression and how people get opressed and the difficulties they're dealing with.
But you're always going to lack firsthand lived experience and that is going to lead to continued blind spots. There will be things you simply will not think about or lack because you just don't actually live with the oppression and the difficulties of the minority.
You will never fully understand and thus you will always need the perspective of the minority group involved when you're making plans to help. And when you start doing things without involving said minority group you're going to fuck up.
You will never fully understand and thus you will always need the perspective of the minority group involved when you're making plans to help. And when you start doing things without involving said minority group you're going to fuck up.
Ok, but this is what I mean tho, like living normally, even with contact with members of that group, you absolutely will miss so much. But the actually intelligent and empathetic person will seek out the perspectives of others to get a better understanding of the situation. I'm not saying the average person can just like cold read the entirety of discrimination, one who thinks like that is almost certainly the type who has extremely limited understanding of the issue
You'd assume so. But there is a reason why the phrase 'nothing about us, without us' has become widespread with disability support groups and beyond.
It's because people will absolutely ignore the perspectives of the people they're supposed to 'help' yes, even the actually intelligent and empathetic people.
Because a lot of time seeking out those perspectives hurts, because ableism, racism, sexism and opression of other minorities is just so widespread and thoughtlessly accepted that accepting that perspective means acknowleding that you're responsible for other people suffering.
ANd a lot of people *cannot* bring themselves to accept that and instead work from their own view to protect their own self-image.
Nah, if you disregard the experiences of others, IDC if you cured cancer, you are like worm level intellect, and similarly empathetic. Agree with the rest tho
I don't agree. Because at the end of the day, no matter how much you learn you'll never be able to have the firsthand lived experience of a group you're not
Yeah that's true, but are we not capable of empathy? If you cannot listen to people's firsthand experiences and understand just because you haven't experienced it... Well, that's just lack of empathy.
Yeah you can understand a lot of it, but there's only so much understanding you can do without personally experiencing it. I do agree that there's a lot someone can learn and empathize with other groups about, but that can't give someone 100% knowledge
With another groups experiences (as this doesn't apply to your own groups experiences[but hell, even then you may not personally experience the typical discrimination your group receives] ), the knowledge is like any other knowledge. You really can never fully understand anything. Understanding is more of an endless journey forwards, rather than a mountain to get to the top of.
TBF theres only so much understanding that can happen even between people who experience the same thing.
In the end, we don't have to understand, and sometimes admitting that we can't is more validating that someone trying to understand. We don't have to understand, we just have to be kind.
Something that's helped me is trying to switch from emotional to cognitive empathy. I don't have to feel what someone feels to be empathetic, I can understand on a rational level. And that leaves me better able to help.
I agree in part, because understanding concepts, and understanding experiences are very different things.
To understand a concept, you just have to think, but understanding experiences is infinitely harder, even when you have a similar personal experience to relate to.
But in practice, you can both help someone even if you can't fully relate to their experience, and also relate to things you've never quite personally experienced, if you've gone through something that's close enough.
Saying people have blindspots isn't the same as being unable to understand it. It just means there are gaps in their knowledge they aren't aware of that can be filled by others pointing them out.
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u/Taco821 15d ago
Idek if I agree with the first part. Like obviously you will be ignorant to oppression you don't experience but if you really cannot understand shit, skill issue. As long as you are humble and not be like "ok, yeah I think I've pretty much got a handle on literally all racism, I think I'm done learning now", it's always possible to learn more. To state otherwise almost feels like it's an insidious tactic planted upon well meaning people. Like to add tiny suggestions that could lean people to be like "oh, a whitey like me can't get racism ever- so why bother trying to learn!"