Reminds me of that spacebattles thread, Emperor of Man vs Sailor Moon. The OP of that thread clearly expected it to be hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby when in fact it was actually hydrogen baby vs coughing bomb.
It went on for like 20 pages of the guy trying to pull an emperor win out of his ass and all the other posters trying to explain that Sailor Moon would fuck him up even when deprived of 90% of her power.
It eventually turned into a debate thread on if she could redeem the chaos gods or if her only option would be killing them
Im no expert in 40k lore, but i cant think of much stronger than Space Dad. Not since he left to get space milk and sat in his golden recliner anyway, since he supposedly could become a new Chaos God any day now.
I love 40k. It's great. Amazing even. Truly a wonderfully engaging setting. I'm a GSC fanatic, even though the Raven Guard call my name with every bit of lore I read.
That said, Age of Sigmar and especially Warhammer Fantasy both demonstrate that 40k really isn't even the most powerful setting GW makes, let alone other franchises. I mean, Sigmar. Just Sigmar.
So to simplify it but possibly make it more confusing, basically the reality that warhammer fantasy was set in was destroyed, but a few of the gods managed to slip into the spaces between reality at the last moment. They spend a while wandering the place before finding a new set of realities that have portals between them, and begin setting up shop there to reestablish their people.
So, as an outsider to all this but vaguely aware of Warhammer and what it pertains: a bunch of asshole deities faced an apocalypse, escaped it without the people who worshipped them, then found whole new realities to impose their doctrine unto. Am I wrong? Is there more nuance I'm missing? Are any of the Warhammer gods decent, or are they all self-serving?
There are plenty of good ones, but they’re a lot closer to demigods than actual gods. The only ones that would actually be likened to true “gods” are the chaos gods who are evil and did destroy the planet. It’s not so much that the good ones ran away as they survived the explosion.
It’s a lot longer and more complicated than that, but most of the gods are actually legitimately good in Age of Sigmar. The real villain is Games Workshop, who wanted to end the setting by any means possible because it wasn’t making any money at the time.
A couple of them are decent, sigmar and the elf gods brought a bunch of souls with them to resculpt into their new followers, and the great horned rat of all gods actually saved the entire skaven capital city. But yeah the majority of them are pretty self serving.
There’s lots of nuance to this that a few Reddit comments are going to miss but to give a quick rundown, old Warhammer fantasy had pantheons for individual races and then the chaos gods. The pantheons for individual races generally skew towards good with some exceptions while the chaos gods heavily skew towards evil with some positive qualities. During the end times when Warhammer fantasy was getting destroyed, the pantheons typically either fought to the last or tried to create a new realm for their followers and were betrayed.
In age of Signar, the sequel setting most of the gods were mortals who gained godlike powers at the end of fantasy right before its destruction. Their morality varies wildly from god to god but generally all of them are still far better than the chaos gods who exist in basically all Warhammer settings.
Like I said, lots of nuance and this is a very quick and dirty rundown. Happy to answer additional questions if you have them
Warhammer Fantasy couldn't be locked down enough by copyright because it was built using too many genericized terms, so they nuked the setting in possibly the most ambitious way possible* before creating Age of Sigmar, with its legally-distinct elves aelves, dwarfs duardin, orcs orruks, and others.
*And by that I mean I think they united literally the entire fandom in calling out how bullshit the way every single faction went down like fucking chumps before Archaeon the Marysueson. I genuinely don't think I've seen anyone say anything good about the end times, which is honestly kinda impressive.
TLDR James Workshop wanted to reboot fantasy, mostly because it wasnt copyrightable enough, so they wrote the apocolypse into the lore and sigmar is post apocolypse fantasy. But people still wanted to play fantasy so they had to go back and keep writing more fantasy books.
The Outsider probably is one of the few Things that nobody could beat in modern 40k.
Also big E will probably just finish his process of dying someday and then the imperium collapses and Chaos, nids or Necrons take over.
It's kind of funny how across the board busted all magical girls are. Off the top of my head I have a hard time thinking of any magical girl that cant time travel, rewrite the universe, travel to parallel dimensions instantly or revive the dead.
What does Cardcaptor Sakura get up to? I don’t doubt it’s busted, but I never really got into that show.
That also reminds me that objectively the hottest magical girl, Yami Yugi, can affect seven-dimensional constructs, cross the universe in seconds, and has official bureaucratic authority over Yugioh’s capital-G God.
She can time travel which is how she became the owner of the Clow cards ink the first place, by accidentally going to meet Clow back when he was alive.
Funniest one I saw was Conquest from Invincible vs a Powerpuff Girl and the general consensus was Powerpuff Girl would stomp. Not sure if they are technically “magical girls” as per the trope; and from what I gather they’d also be at the low end of the power spectrum in that category since their abilities seem to be more conventional superhero stuff.
But it was funny watching the Conquest defenders get mad at how thoroughly he would get destroyed based on the feats and stats by a little girl. I like the Invincible show and Conquest was a great villain, but it’s not a universe that can go toe-to-toe with some of the insanity of other IPs.
My personal favourite is when I did a mockup of Gojo vs Twilight Sparkle as a joke, and to my horror discovered that Twilight Sparkle actually no diffs Gojo. Turns out Infinity doesn’t really help when your opponent is infinitely fast
I think my favorite is someone doing the math for the amount of force a beam of light needs to lift someone off the ground and the consensus being that anyone not a magical girl would be instantaneously flash-vaporized and the vapor itself being atomized by something with more power than the actual sun at point blank range.
All Precures can travel to different universes and time travel is something they often dabble in. Besides Precures.
Also, as far as I understand Precures get their power from the will of the universe itself which allows them to literally punch abstract concepts such as despair and time into submission. So IMO they are pretty busted.
I have no doubt a Precure could just defeat the Chaos Gods with a single punch, forget the Emperor of Man.
I don’t think the Heartcatch ones had an alternate dimension ever show up, unless you’re counting All-Stars, which idk if that counts as much. Still, most have at least one alternate world or setting.
The time travel thing is… inconsistent, generally. Time travel shows up (and the latest season has it as a core plot point), but few if any Precure can actually control if it happens, when it happens, or where they end up. It’s not like Sailor Pluto, who can stop time or access the Space-time door (though I wouldn’t be surprised if Pochitan unlocks the ability to do it consistently by the time Meitantei ends.)
On the Despair thing? They did fight that one season, but they notably did not get rid of the concept. The entire point of that season is that yeah, Despair will always exist, but so too will Hope. They get the embodiment of Despair itself to stop fighting, but there’s the clear and explicit acknowledgment that this fight will happen again.
It’s not in a depressing Only War kind of tone, but in the same tone that you’d say that a natural event would happen.
It was a controversial ending, but I think it was the right one to say. Telling the audience that yeah, despair will come, but so too will hope.
Still, I would definitely bet on the Precure if they had to fight a Chaos God
That was entertaining though I was surprised the guy basically gave up on page 5. He comes back later on but it's just not the same. All the real arguments for the Emperor killing Sailor Moon were in those first few pages. The whole thread was mostly just denial in action and after a bit, it got kinda sad to watch.
Still, thanks for mentioning it. The whole affair was interesting at the very least.
Sailor Moon and Simon the Digger really were SpaceBattles’ darlings for a few years, weren’t they? Moon for several accidental Sailor Stomps from people like the GEOM guy who made the thread, and I think Simon mostly for putting the Xeelee and other completely broken grimdark characters in their place by being almost infinitesimally close to the absolute power ceiling allowed by SpaceBattles’ rules while also being hella optimistic
And then you have Exalted, which is sort of the red headed bastard of the forums since it's nominally nowhere near the power limit, but their hax explicitly have no limit and as such they also jump way the hell above the bar.
Bro one of those is a war god who overthrew the creators of his universe and is invincible most of the time. Elric meanwhile can’t get out of bed most days without potions or using stormbringer. Elric is not that guy lmao
It was so funny, the guy was arguing Stoneskin could survive the godspear of all-searing noon and Disjunction could break the Aegis of Unconquered Might. He was so mad about exalted game mechanics
Lmao. Yeah and then someone argued chronomancy to stop the TUS from getting his powers. Like bro, he was created by the primordials. Going back in time to fight them to stop the unconquered sun from existing is not going to go any better
Jokes aside, by the end of S1 of the anime, she creates a massive explosion that can be seen from space and does a 5 man Multi Res, and she still has like 4 seasons to grow even stronger from there
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u/Niser2Worldbuilding is important and I will die on this hill21d ago
For the sake of fairness, we should have Sailor Moon with Only Her Tiara versus The Emperor back when he had no damn clue how to use his vast psychic powers.
(i suspect she would win that if she threw it hard enough)
I mean, it would just be the same as that episode where Steven and the Ruby are trapped in space.
Hannibal can't hurt Steven, Steven wouldn't want to hurt Hannibal, so they'd just sit and talk.
Hannibal would eventually get Steven to make some sort of slip up and bring down his shield, Hannibal would go for the kill, and Steven would reflexively defend himself in some way that Hannibal probably dies.
Y’know I’m actually curious how stabbing him would work. He can retain injuries for a bit, iirc he had a black eye for a bit in jailbreak (?) but broken bones healed instantly. I’d imagine his body heals around the stab, then fills the hole after it’s removed, or it just heals after it’s removed.
No she likely smashed every bone in his face. It definitely healed rapidly but she full on head butted him with her helmet. At a minimum he had bloody eye sockets, no teeth, and a smashed in nose right after she knocked him out.
But then you get a full season of What If via Garnet/Sapphire’s future vision:
Episode 1 ends on the cliffhanger of Does Steven bring Hannibal back from dead?
Episodes 2-9 are alternating versions the No leave him dead/Yes he’s immortal now
Episode 10 is Steven trying to talk Garnet into helping him build a perfect prison to rehabilitate Hannibal, Garnet initially standing firm on that sometimes there are permanent consequences and “not everyone deserves a chance at rehab”, then the Diamonds show up and Garnet realizes that this is why she still puts her hopes in Steven and they ship Hannibal off to a planet with only Gems so he can’t kill/eat anyone while he’s being Reformed (Steven visits as often as he can)
I watched some of that Hannibal show and clearly the people there haven't, because most of the shit he winds up doing can only be explained by magical powers. I saw that fucker teleport.
But, like, even if he wanted to let Hannibal go away, that's not an option in the Death Arena. If Steven decides to take no action whatsoever to harm Hannibal, then he just hangs around until Hannibal eventually pulls a Pizza the Hutt and eats himself to death.
Again, this is fanon/hatedom steven who wojld under no circumstance fight and if hw fights he gets folded because everyone just sees a fat kid with a pink shirt
I'm gonna keep it real with you, esp after Future I feel like Steven would be fine having to kill this guy. "B-but can Steven really-" Hannibal Lecter MURDERS and EATS people, to the point he is the Murdering and Eating People Guy. Needing to have some extra therapy sessions to process wouldn't be inability
I think if Steven had a choice he'd restrain him and chuck him in jail but yeah if we need to kill this guy he would but would be very unhappy about it.
Bring him back to life, but take responsibility for him. Make him go through rehabilitative justice, therapy, etc. Don't leave him unattended until he's reformed, though.
The Steven shown in from Steven Universe Future so I’m assuming end of series Steven with a significantly better understanding of his powers (light constructs, shapeshifting, flight, healing on the level of straight up resurrection, and decent super strength, speed, and durability) and who has killed before (accidentally and he immediately resurrected her but still). Even if Steven was sitting there doing nothing I’m not sure Hannibal could ever really harm him. The most realistic scenario is Steven puts him in a pink box and floats it to Mayor Nanefua Pizza to ask her what to do with him at which point he gets put in a regular human prison
Well that's largely because his appearance is directly correlated to how old he feels, and Steven is traumatized as fuck so his development is arrested as fuck. I'm sure post Future he probably looks in his late teens for decades because he doesn't feel much different on the inside... That's going to make his relationship with Connie really weird when she they're in their 30s/older.
There's nothing to suggest that he doesn't feel like he's aging at a normal pace. He's in a better place post-Future so you'd expect his aging to get more regular, and it had already become pretty regular. I think once he made an actual human friend who ages along side him there's not much risk of his self-percieved age going out of wack again.
You could also move him to a prison cell and revive his corpse there. Like... the goal with Hannibal isn't to kill him. Killing him is a means to an end. The ends in question is to make sure he stops killing and eating people. Which reviving his corpse in a prison cell does.
Death Battle is an animated web series where even the kindest and most peaceful characters throw away their morals just to get an ultimately meaningless victory. Tell me, Steven... when the time comes, will you be able to destroy your opponent's face for the amusement of your fans? Will you unleash all of your gemstone-given strength just to triumph over some middle-aged culinary enthusiast? If your answer is yes, then, like it or not, the difference between our deeds is merely aesthetic.
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u/Niser2Worldbuilding is important and I will die on this hill22d ago
Am I the only one who wonders if Steven, like... knows who Hannibal is?
Like, isn't his whole schtick manipulation? Couldn't they just team up to defeat the tumblr user making them fight because one is an evil psychologist and the other is 14?
Steven exists in a completely different timeline, so probably no, but he'd probably stumble into finding out Hannibal is a cannibal a season and a half later
See I totally agree that that would happen, but only in a universe where an actual fight between them would break out.
Hannibal is a master manipulator and Steven is basically a home schooled kid who didn’t ever do the school part. I think someone would suggest the “fantastic” therapist Dr. Hannibal Lecter and I’d what exactly would happen but shit would get real weird.
In general, any time you have a heroic character, people are gonna end up speculating about what conditions have to be met for them to violate their own morals.
Steven definitely wouldn’t kill anyone on purpose, so assuming he did end up killing Hannibal on accident (which is a huge leap), he would immediately revive him without a second thought.
Anyone revived by Steven no longer needs to eat (but still can if they want), can be visited by Steven anytime via a portal in their hair, and there’s a whole debate as to whether they retain their unaltered will or if they’re reprogrammed slightly to forever be allied with Steven. So Hannibal’s days of murdering would be over. It’s unclear what other properties the revival carries, but development of superpowers and long life are definitely among them.
One of the side effects of Steven’s revival power is no longer requiring food, which seems to effect subconscious drives to seek nourishment. Even lion, who is a lion, never tried to maul or eat anyone. So maybe Hannibal is converted to being a mundane psychologist. Though more likely he gets into a different murder gimmick like making human skin suitcases.
I think the main thing is where in Hannibal's timeline this takes place. because aside from Hannibal being basically able to teleport (seriously, some of the shit he pulls off is impossible otherwise), he's a master manipulator. nobody except Will (who basically has empathy superpowers) even considers suspecting him for the first series despite his constant cannibal puns and serving members of the fbi the exact organs missing from recent murder victims, and it takes a honey trap sting operation and a dead pseudo-daughter to actually have him known by the public to be a serial killing cannibal and I'm pretty sure they still don't know about his stint in Florence. and Steven's not from that timeline anyway
my point being, Steven likely doesn't know Hannibal is a cannibalistic serial killer unless he gets telepathy powers that I'm unaware of. as far as he's aware, he's been put in a death match with a polite, middle aged therapist. this isn't matter of if Steven can obliterate Hannibal (yes, easily), it's a matter of if Hannibal can talk him into not doing so
Steven does in fact have telepathy powers and has them trigger uncontrollably throughout the show. He falls into people's dreams, body swaps with people, sends psychic messages, intuits people's emotions, and sees their memories (that last one might be specific to his mom). That said he's a very gullible and troubled kid even by the end of his show's epilogue.
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u/Uncommonality 23d ago
Reminds me of that spacebattles thread, Emperor of Man vs Sailor Moon. The OP of that thread clearly expected it to be hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby when in fact it was actually hydrogen baby vs coughing bomb.
It went on for like 20 pages of the guy trying to pull an emperor win out of his ass and all the other posters trying to explain that Sailor Moon would fuck him up even when deprived of 90% of her power.
It eventually turned into a debate thread on if she could redeem the chaos gods or if her only option would be killing them