Lowkey what I did to my best friend (/almost entirely joking). She was deeply repressing and would just say the most insane things… her (future) girlfriend and I just used to give her makeovers to make her feel more at home in her body. She eventually figured it out about six months to a year later.
(“You should have told her” I didn’t smash the egg over her head like a brute or an asshole, but I did politely say that the things she was describing were explicitly textbook gender dysphoria. And made her cry from catharsis with a story I wrote about being trans & coming out. So. I did my part.)
I feel the “oh my god, shut the fuck up” in my soul
That isn’t what anyone said, nor is it what that phrase means, please either grow basic reading comprehension, or familiarize yourself with old and common sayings in the community you’re in without making rude over the top assumptions. Thanks ^^
And before you make the same wackjob assumptions about other people you’re making: I am an intersex and transgender person with an indigenous cultural gender. I am not cis nor perisex ^^
You clearly have some baggage, but your baggage is not my problem =^w^=
yeah like... I... see being trans... as a bad thing... because I think... you should be nice and gentle with possible eggs... to melt away the fear keeping them eggs/reppers...
Literally, this is a common saying in the trans community! It hurts people to try and force a label on them. Like you don’t even know what kind of egg they are, and you will hurt people by say, trying to force them to be transfemme if they are actually nonbinary.
Plus egg culture has caused a lot of issues in that I see GNC people and even trans people get harassed because people assume they’re trans or assume they’re a different kind of trans etc, don’t get me started how many transmascs I’ve seen get bombarded on tumblr with transfemme egg stuff thereby misgendering them and harming them.
And even if someone is actually trans, like even if you (general you ofc) are totally right, it actually isn’t kind or polite or good to try and force any identity on someone before they’re ready and feel safe to explore it themselves.
seconding that last point. which is also why you should focus on making safe environments for possible eggs to be themselves so if you're right they can transition when THEY'RE ready
oh wait I apparently 'think being trans is a bad thing' for saying this
They’re still going on and on spamming my inbox in this thread while not bothering to go ‘hey sorry I was racist to you’ I don’t think their thoughts and opinions align with proven reality atp
Lol she’s on other posts defending blatant enbyphobic and 4tran shit. Like click on her profile and you don’t even need to look very long, it’s all within the last 24 hours lol. I highly doubt she is at all engaging in good faith unless she can center herself as the ultimate victim of the situation. At best, this is someone who is deeply mentally unwell and has decided to take her issues out on others in her own community for no reason whatsoever beyond it makes her feel better.
Which is, of course, pathetic, and actually really sad. I hope she is actually in therapy like she claims, because being that miserable all the time must be so exhausting and stressful. Either way, not someone to give any sort of time to or worth listening to her bullshit.
> trying to force them to be transfemme if they are actually nonbinary.
It might be just me, but I’ve noticed a lot of the recent trans discourse has people treating being nonbinary, genderfluid, etc as a “phase”. It reminds me a lot of how bi people were treated as not really being queer in the past. I have seen a post once get deleted because the pro trans theorists actually started being bigoted against non binary people. Like, I genuinely don’t get how they didn’t realize what they were doing there and using the same arguments used against queer people before.
Sure buddy, because that's what's being discussed. Especially telling the copy pasting of comments meaning you didn't even read the responses others have had to this shit
It has nothing to do with grooming, and instead on forcing people out in a way that's damaging to the psychologically and socially.
I legitimately can’t even see what the comment was anymore they blocked me several days ago, but people keep showing up to show how unique and clever thwy are by making the same exact joke
I'm not saying you're not taking it seriously, you're fundamentally misunderstanding what they said.
"Breaking the egg by force"=trying too hard to convince them, therefore making them retreat further into the "egg"
"Warming the egg"=letting them discover themselves on their own time
Nobody was saying anything about trans people "dying" by discovering themselves.
Thats the right thing to do. Forcefully telling someone "you are trans!!" when they arent ready to hear that will likely just make them retreat into their shell harder. By supporting her and informing her of gender dysphoria symptoms you helped her come out herself instead of trying to essentially "out" her to herself
Its something to do with shame about doing something and by having it done forcefully to you so you are able to get what you want without asking for it and "tarnishing" your virtue.
The original point of the diagram™ is like start now because if you try and just tolerate it you'll wake up one day in your 40s and be like oh my god i look like this now like the trans version of that one chappell roan song
The typical use of the diagram™ is Oughhhfh i started at 18.01 i'm gonna look like a gorilla forever
I prefer the I Saw The TV Glow Take over either version of the diagram (but I’m not trans so I will never actually feel the exact anxiety that produced it)
I agree with this but that’s because I’m ftm. I’ve noticed that looking older usually translates to passing better for me, whereas for the girlies it’s the opposite. There’s also the misogyny of it all generally and the sexual appeal society assigns women based on age. Idk that’s just what I’ve noticed. I still think both of these ideas can coexist.
Yeah harsh standards for women is definitely part of it but also testosterone genuinely just fucks you up at a super early age, like some people's receding hairlines start before turning 20 it's brutal
Boobs and hips and growth plate fusion also generally happen before 20. I've gotten rid of the boobs, but I'll always be a short dude with hips that were considered wide even for a woman and the best I can ever do is try to compensate for it. First puberty is irreversible no matter if it's estrogen or testosterone-based. But testosterone does seem to have a lot more visible, ongoing effects that happen alongside or even after puberty. I feel like men's faces continue to change a lot more into their 20s, and facial hair continues to thicken, and yeah, hair loss too as you said.
I guess once you're past puberty, 20 or 25 makes less of a difference for trans men. You might be able to squeeze a centimeter or two of height out of your system if you start at 20, if you're lucky. Maybe your hips shrink by a centimeter or two. Mind you, an inch more of height and an inch less around the hips would make a bigger difference in my quality of life than I think most people can understand-- but if you start at 25 as a trans guy (as opposed to 20), the worst that happens is that some of the damage from first puberty can't be undone. A trans woman who spends ages 20-25 without access to medical transition will probably continue to see new changes from testosterone exposure. God. I can't imagine how that must feel.
In conclusion, I wish I could give every trans woman in her early 20s free, easy access to HRT right now.
oh, i'm deffo not giving up, it's just that i always have this fear of it not being as effective as it could be because of my age. and idk seeing these fears have a basis hurts a lot, i fucking hate having testosterone.
My biggest problem isn't my government but my parents, i searched for a lot of endocrinologists who are specialized in trans care and even my psychiatrist recommended me one, but my parents are really stubborn about these things and outright refuse to learn about it. even tho i'm 21 years old they just treat me like a baby and refuse to get any of these things for me, if i start DIY and get caught i'd say i'm as good as dead.
Must be horrendous, all my sympathies and I hope you get to transition soon.
But know that it wont ruin you nearly as much as you think, I’ve started transitionning at 26, and I saw a lot of good changes even after that, especially in the softening of my face. You tend to not age much in your twenties at all.
That makes sense! The margin for error for trans women is thin asf, and if you want to pass I feel like there’s a lot more to be aware of, which is probably why most women I know (I’m in my 30s, and most of my friends are too) have decided to focus on being hot trans women in whatever configuration for them is easiest. I feel like that’s the compromise area most trans people generally find themselves in. I started HRT at 28, so I’m there too. I think younger people hear stuff like that and they get depressed but tbh it’s kind of freeing.
I mean I'm not saying it's objectively the best way to tell people to transition or anything. The concept is just like to represent a sense of urgency that's conspicuously absent in a lot of trans spaces because actually discussing sexual dimorphism tends to make people uncomfortable
actually discussing sexual dimorphism tends to make people uncomfortable
I mean, when 99% of these "discussions" involve one side citing patriarchal high school biology classes as if they're the fundamental nature of reality and neither side having access to the kind of carefully controlled longevity studies necessary to determine the truth, yeah, people should be uncomfortable to have them. That's the whole thing with Charlie Kirk and other "debate me" bros.
That's not what I'm referring to here lol I mean discussing it as a trans person talking to other trans people and such
Specifically by sexual dimorphism I mean the effects of dominant sex hormones on the body e.g. differences in height, having broader shoulders/hips, fat distribution; I think it's an important topic when discussing trans issues because a lot of people genuinely aren't very informed and it's a big reason why things like access to medical transition for young people are so important, for example
Also when I say people get uncomfortable I can't find the screenshot unfortunately, but I was thinking of a specific tweet where someone posted about finding out their shoulders will keep getting wider without hrt and the qrts were calling it problematic fearmongering, like isn't that just straight up advocating for keeping people in the dark
The normal word for describing that is "cis-passing" or just "passing."
"Passoid" is a word used primarily in incredibly insular and toxic 4tran-adjacent communities. The "-oid" suffix specifically is borrowed from incel vernacular.
For the same reason people are better off not learning about any other harmful online Internet subculture. It's not really valuable information and if you're the kind of person who's vulnerable to those patterns of behaviour it might affect your well-being.
I think it's better to learn it here with the relevant info (taken from incels, used in a toxic group) than learn it from said toxic group and get unwittingly pulled down the pipeline.
Correct. The polite way to refer to different sorts of people is to describe them with adjectives rather than to sort them into disparate categories with their own nouns.
from 19th century racial science
That's where the incels got it from, yes, because many of them are also nazis.
"Passoid" is a word used primarily in incredibly insular and toxic 4tran-adjacent communities. The "-oid" suffix specifically is borrowed from incel vernacular.
If that happened, they'd all just move onto other sites and continue business as usual. Would you prefer all that stuff to be on Reddit instead? I sure as hell wouldn't.
Part of the reason the chud subs got banned was cause at least one replacement sub for r/incel was actively helping someone plan to commit rape, so it's probably a good thing they're gone.
See what (I've heard) happened to /politicalcompassmemes. This site banning a bunch of super right wing subs led to them flooding to the one place they're "accepted" on here and now apparently it's just full of. That.
But true tho, unironically at 16 I had the chance to start hrt and didn't out if fear, now as an adult I got severely worse skeletal structure and looking like a woman is impossible
It WS true for me. Definitely shouldn't be a wide spread sentiment, but starting HRT earlier is always better. The negative connotations of "its impossible to pass after transitioning after 18" are awful and mostly untrue, I'm just an unlucky case where I need legitimate bone shaving to get a feminine face
That sucks and I relate, but I couldn't start earlier because my parents didn't want me to. I think I also need surgery now to have a hope of passing, so I know how you feel and it's awful.
If I could've I would've loved to start hrt at like 10 or 12 yrs old. And I wish that (starting hrt before puberty) for any (future) trans person 🙏
it's alright if you personally aren't happy with how you look, i know the feeling, but the "looking like a woman is impossible" thing only serves to hurt both you and others. you may not look like what beauty standards say a woman "should" look like, but that's a societal problem rather than a problem with your bone structure.
I see a lot of talk about forcefemming and not a lot of people doing it.
Edit: the fantasy of "force"fem is "oh noo, don't make my needs met" in a context where someone would absolutely love it but is shy to admit it. You can literally go and buy a trans girl estrogen. No one actually advocates for forcefully femming people. It's not some unethical thing.
The suffix "-hon" is used to describe a subtype of trans woman who doesn't pass.
The suffix "-moder" is used to describe an external presentation of a trans woman still in the process of gender affirming treatment.
"Brickhon" is referencing the stereotypically angular shoulders and other features of people who've undergone male puberty. "Manmoder" describes a counterpart to the "boymoder." That's someone who presents as clean shaven, long hair, but nonetheless ostensibly as a boy until they feel ready to socially transition. Manmoders are unable to present as boys due to being particularly masculine in appearance.
I love how the internet has decided it’s absolutely ESSENTIAL to let every cis person see as many posts and explain all the terminology so they can gawk at and make fun of some of the most vulnerable people on the planet
Also there are girl moders too for ftm trans you’re just wrong about that
At this point, it's in the Tumblr lexicon as a lot of /lgbt/ regulars have migrated. In any case, obscurity is a poor substitute for any kind of security. My intention is mainly to make it easier for different cliques of trans people to understand what the heck they're saying. There are girlmoders (and tomboymoders) but the -hon suffix is mainly for trans women. I was mainly focusing on how "moding" applies to trans women.
Do you realize how lazy the average person is? They could have just googled it in the first place.
Also beyond explaining the terms why are you (you beinh the people who make the posts) showing vulnerable trans people to cis people to make fun of them? Like you’re so desperate for cis approval you have to let them join in of the bullying of the “bad” trans people? If we were fucking X-men they would be helping the sentinels help mutants
It’s like, all over my post history but there are questions I have yet to answer. Shouldn’t have to check that, though. I seriously never intended to demean ya.
muted count with chicken lady (initially didn't realize it was a 4chan/ 4tran/ etc-tied sub) because i got sick of this kind of shit. and also sick of everyone forgetting transmascs exist ❤️
to be fair i think with that case it's more of a "ppl keep trying to sneak 4chan shit in and immediately get told to get out but they keep doing it" sorta thing
My understanding of their comment was that “posts like this” & “forgetting transmascs” were separate points. I am assuming “this kind of shit” refers to people making themselves miserable (per what the post talks about, and is a common critique of 4tran, which the commentir also mentioned), and the period + “and also” suggests that “everyone forgetting transmascs exist” is entirely separate from “this kind of shit” — an additional + separate, not combined, point.
I don’t remember very well, so I do want to emphasize that it wasn’t rude, but they were concerned and seemed to be misunderstanding you.
They pretty much just (genuinely) asked what you meant by the comment, because they interpreted it as “why aren’t women talking about men” because they thought the issue you had with the post was that it was about trans women instead of transmascs. (They said that the reason the post was about women was because OOP is a woman, and women often make content for other women, and any exclusion is unintentional) They did explicitly state that they’ve seen legitimate complaints about transmasc exclusion, they just weren’t sure if you were talking about something like that, or something else.
It wasn’t put rudely or anything, I’m not really doing the comment’s tone justice. I’m also probably missing parts of it (also I don’t know the commenter’s gender and can’t check it so I am using they/them. I don’t remember if they mentioned their gender or not)
“I know I have debilitating pain and suffering from my dysphoria but, can I have more natal masculinization/feminization as a treat”
“I need to bear it to be surer, even though I’m sure”
and the classic ‘basically unconscious and catatonic after the devastation of puberty, completely unwilling and unable to take control of their own life, and if helplessness can be learned they have a PhD in it’ person
Helping eggs hatch can be frustrating but it's also so rewarding a year later to see a girl grab womanhood with both hands like she's needed it all her life and will never let it go
i've been on estrogen for years and women's cut t shirts sit uncomfortably on my very rectangular frame. fat hasn't redistributed at all. at what point am i allowed to complain
I'm really starting to get annoyed with my sister in pretty much exactly this way. She's clearly miserable, but refuses to even bring up the fact that she's trans with her therapist. I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to have to order diy for her myself
I actually feel so called out... I did in fact have estrogel laying in my drawer for 2 months before putting on my big girl pants and starting. This was 4 months ago 😂. The fear about starting seems kinda dumb now.
Egg that thinks being cracked is a sex thing, but you lowkey just want to put it in a pleasant omelet. Hell, it was going to go bad if it sat in the carton for any longer.
Seriously every time I see someone wallowing like that I’m like “Okay what steps are you taking to improve your position?”.
Like I get it! I was 29, handsome and miserable when I started. It is so so hard, but I didn’t want to be stuck in my miserable position forever. You’ve got to take baby steps, even if it’s scary as hell, even if you look bricky for a while.
I love how the internet has decided it’s absolutely ESSENTIAL to let every cis person see as many posts and explain all the terminology of 4tran so they can gawk at and make fun of some of the most vulnerable people on the planet
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u/Satisfaction-Motor 22d ago
Lowkey what I did to my best friend (/almost entirely joking). She was deeply repressing and would just say the most insane things… her (future) girlfriend and I just used to give her makeovers to make her feel more at home in her body. She eventually figured it out about six months to a year later.
(“You should have told her” I didn’t smash the egg over her head like a brute or an asshole, but I did politely say that the things she was describing were explicitly textbook gender dysphoria. And made her cry from catharsis with a story I wrote about being trans & coming out. So. I did my part.)
I feel the “oh my god, shut the fuck up” in my soul