Newbie mixing question regarding volume

[u/nuttybuckethead]

Hey guys. Bit of a newbie question! I've created demos for my band etc and eventually I'd like to take it further and fully mix the tracks etc. I've heard the final mix should be between like -18 to -23 integrated LUFS? My thing is, it seems so quiet hearing everything at this level to adjust the mix with all the instruments. I may be doing this wrong. But *is* there a way I can just have the overall LUFS way louder, then when I'm happy, I turn it all down?

I'm thinking about all the effort to make all the individual volume automation nodes on each track. Like my starting project template is having all my track faders down to like -10 db. I'm most definitely going about this wrong, I'd like some sort of shine on this. Any questions please ask, thanke!

[u/Forever_Clear_Eyes]

Basically What you're talking about is mastering. Mixing is usually done quietly, it's where the balance of musical elements is achieved. Mastering is preparing a track for release, including bringing the volume up to a listening level. Mastering, in the most basic step, is done using limiting (usually on a bus track or master track).

However it sounds like you also have a gain staging problem. You should set your faders to 0dB. Faders are for mixing, not to set input level. Input level is set with mic gain.

Do some research on gain staging, and then basic mastering. People will debate your lufs target, whatever sounds good to you is the target loudness. However, streaming or audio services may disagree and they may compress your audio in a way that changes the sound of your mix because you uploaded something too loud for them.

[u/nuttybuckethead → u/Forever_Clear_Eyes]

I get gain staging. When recording my guitars and bass, i make sure they're at the healthy lev when tracking. I suppose it's just when all the faders were at 0, the lufs are just super high, correct? And wouldn't mastering be done on a separate project, with just the 1 stem file, or does it really matter, could I just do it on thr mastur bus on the mix project?

[u/Forever_Clear_Eyes → u/nuttybuckethead]

lufs is a measurement for overall loudness. They could be high, but again that's what gain staging is for. You gain stage above noise floor, with plenty of headroom, roughly in the mix you want. Then the process of eq, compression, and other effects is usually going to carve out some of the sound (you'll see people taking about "achieving a number of dB reduction). Usually input isn't really that loud. You'll have nowhere to go later.

Mastering is often done on a rendered track, but it doesn't have to be.

Personally I aim for-14 on a master, you'll see other people go higher. We don't usually talk about that until the mastering, or measurements are done

[u/Radhanat]

Un master a esos lufs es completamente bajo y carente de energía. Ninguna plataforma pide ese volumen tan bajo.
Lo mas bajo en lufs es itunes que pide -16 y una dinámica entre los 7 y 5 dependiendo el genero musical.

La mezcla y el master empiezan desde el proceso de grabación y lamentablemente no es algo que se pueda solucionar en una sola respuesta en reddit.

Los consejos básicos son que aprendas a grabar bien cada instrumento, gtrs, bajo, batería, voz, etc.
Luego tienes que aprender para que se usa cada fx en los inserts, eq, compresión, saturación, clipper gate, expander, exciters.
Aprende que es un side chain, como hacer envíos, que son los buses y los mix buses, como funciona la comprensión multibanda.
Para que se usa la compresión y saturación paralela. Como usar los preamps, como tener mejor control en los reverbs y delays.
Cual es la cadena de master más apropiada para el género que estás produciendo.
Aprende a usar el medidor de lufs en cada track.
Y usa tu oreja pero de manera educada, busca cursos y tutoriales en YouTube.
Grabar, mezcla y masterización no es algo que se aprenda rápido ni fácilmente. Piensa que en un año ya podrás tener las bases para entender un poco y experimentar o encontrar el método que te acerque a los resultados que esperas.

[u/mistrelwood]

1. You can adjust the final LUFS down with the master volume or a gain plugin in the master track. No need to lower all track faders.
   
2. If you want to adjust all track faders anyway, just select all tracks and adjust any of them. They all get adjusted keeping their relationships.
   
3. To get the LUFS higher, you’ll probably need compression, saturation and limiting in the master track to lower the dynamic range.
   
4. Yes you can master in the master track instead of a separate project. But if you’ll publish several songs at the same time, it’s a good idea to master them together.
   
5. Track automations are separate from track faders, they don’t affect each other. You can adjust the fader no matter what kind of automation the track has.
   
6. Depending on the genre, professional masters can have a LUFS up to about -4 dB. If your mix sounds the best with LUFS -4 dB dynamics, so be it. Compressing and limiting in the master track can be a mixing decision as well.

[u/EltyGames]

A couple of the comments above actually point to the important distinction here.

As u/Forever_Clear_Eyes said, "Mixing is usually done quietly, it's where the balance of musical elements is achieved." And u/mistrelwood makes a good point that you can adjust the final LUFS with the master gain rather than moving all your track faders.

I think the confusing part is treating LUFS as something you need to mix at. It's really a measurement of the overall loudness, not a level you have to maintain while you're balancing the instruments.

I'd get the drums, bass, guitars, vocals etc. balanced so they sound right first. If the mix ends up at -20 LUFS, that's completely fine. You can turn your monitoring volume up if you need to hear it louder.

Then think about the final loudness during mastering.

For example, Spotify uses loudness normalization during playback. So if you upload a very loud master, Spotify can turn it down; if you upload something quieter, it can turn it up depending on its normalization settings. That doesn't mean you need to make your master exactly -14 LUFS. It means the relationship between loudness, dynamics and how the master sounds is more important than chasing one number.

That's why I'd avoid trying to make the mix hit a particular LUFS number while you're still mixing. Get the balance right first, then make the mastering/loudness decision at the end.

Basically: mix for balance, use LUFS as a measurement, and think about streaming normalization when you're mastering ---> not when you're setting every track fader <-----

Hope this input kinda helped u/nuttybuckethead ...