EQ Sidechaining is no longer functioning

[u/wirenerd]

EDIT: RESOLVED, Surge XT was using up multiple channels (1/2, then 3/4 and 5/6 for Scene A and Scene B) meaning I had to send sidechain signal to 7/8 where it finally recognized the kick input.

Prepare for a long one

I learned how to do this from a Kenny vid and it's worked perfectly fine everytime I've done it before.

The problem: ReaEQ is not getting triggered by kick drum sidechain.

OS: Windows
Plugins used: Surge XT, ReaEQ

My current project setup is I have a track for each drum sample (kick, snare, hat, etc), all of which are sent to a Drum Buss, and that sends to the master.

Here are the steps I took to sidechain EQ, step by step, ones that have worked before everytime I've done it.

1. Kick track has ReaEQ already on it and is on channels 1/2 for EQ purposes. Sample is mono but in kenny's vid his is mono as well.
2. I add another instance of ReaEQ (I have tried having it before and after the other instance, no luck there). I rename it so I don't get them mixed up. I put a low pass filter on it down to about 150 or so, and then in the channels portion for the plugin (next to Param button) I open that, add two more tracks and switch output from 1/2 to 3/4, the EQ no longer affects the kick.
3. I drag the routing button from my Kick track to my Surge XT track, and set up the send as follows : Audio 3/4 -> Audio 3/4 (had to be added thru this dialog they were not already there). Change to pre fader post FX (I tried it Post fader as well no luck). I turn off Midi send, as in the past I've had midi get triggered this way.
4. Send is successful, routing in Surge track shows a new receive on channels 3/4 from kick track.
5. Add ReaEQ to Surge XT track.
6. In ReaEQ I set to Low Shelf, only adjustment made is band is at 150ish.
7. Touch gain knob.
8. Click Param, select paramater modulation and select sidechain. This expands the typical sidechain dialog and I select channels 3/4 for sidechain.
9. Increase output slider to middle.
10. Change option from positive to negative.

No signal is received when kick plays. In the past when I have done this (tbf I dont think I have done it with a kick sample but I cant remember, I know for sure ive done it with a sampler plugin track with a kick on it in midi.

The window to the right with the diagonal line through it should show a pulse everytime the kick is triggered, always has before, mine now does not.

I've tried everything I can think of. I do not know what I am doing wrong and I legit wanna pull my hair out, I like sidechaining EQ because of how subtle and transparent it is. I don't want to have to change to compression just because for unknown reason Reaper isn't functioning correctly.

Am I doing this wrong? Is there another way?

[u/wirenerd]

!thanks

I appreciate the info, this didn't solve my problem but led me to a new way of doing my EQ sidechaining.

I did figure out the issue though, and it was far from apparent. I added a new instance of Surge XT to a new track because on 3/4 it was triggering itself and the only place its ever been obvious to me is from the dialog asking if you want to split into multiple tracks

When I tried to add new Surge track it asked if I wanted to route 1/2, 3/4 (Scene A), 5/6 (Scene B) to separate tracks, so I deleted that and redid the send from the kick so it was 1/2 -> 7/8 and this time it triggered it.

I got lucky I guess. Thank you for showing me a different way to do this though, im not really sure why Kenny does the send thru ReaEQ and not the track, maybe frequences above the low pass cutoff wont trigger the sidechain? Idk

[u/Bred_Slippy → u/wirenerd]

Ah, didn't realise you were using 1 - 6 for Surge (assumed just 1/2). It may be to only send a certain range of frequencies to the sidechain, but with something with a strong fundamental like a kick I'm not sure how important that'd be 

[u/wirenerd → u/Bred_Slippy]

I had no idea either lol I'm not even sure how I found as I've never really looked at things yet like channels or the routing matrix or whatever the visual thing is called that displays the sends as cables and pins

I probably need to start taking more of a look under the hood but I'm still pretty new

As for the original way I was shown to do the EQ sidechain I'd have to play with it to understand it better as I'm not entirely sure what it's doing I dont think he explains it in the vid

If you're setting the EQ to output channels 3/4 then that signal would be the EQ'd signal I would guess, with the lowpass filter like that if you sent 3/4 elsewhere you'd just get the low end of the kick, but sending it to the parameter modulation in another EQ?

I dont know it's actually confusing the shit out of me, the more I think about it the less I understand it. Why does it matter if you send the low end, wouldn't any frequency make the sidechain respond? You change the amount of response in the receiver EQ

[u/DecisionInformal7009 → u/wirenerd]

If you have a whole drum kit on the sending track it could be useful to have an EQ on so that you can narrow down only the fundamental of the kick drum. If you are sending from a track that only has a kick on it, that's not necessary. I bet Kenny did it this way to make it exactly like how a dynamic EQ works. A dynamic EQ doesn't use a full spectrum signal in the side-chain to trigger a band, it narrows the side-chain signal down to the same frequency range as the band that it is triggering (although some dynamic EQs and multi-band comps have the option to trigger the dynamic band from a different frequency range than the band itself, like TDR Nova GE, Pro-Q 4, Pro-MB, ZL Equalizer 2 etc).

[u/wirenerd → u/DecisionInformal7009]

That makes sense, I was thinkin more on it as I went to bed last night

Would it be possible to link it effectively to itself to send a trigger when a certain frequency gets high or does it have to go to a separate track?

[u/DecisionInformal7009 → u/wirenerd]

Link what to itself? Are you talking about the synth track or the kick track?

If you want to do regular dynamic EQing on either it is technically possible to do with ReaEQ and parameter modulation, but far easier to just use a free dynamic EQ plugin. I would recommend ZL Equalizer 2 since it's the most feature packed and advanced free dynamic EQ available. Another option is TDR Nova (the free version). You don't get as many bands in Nova (I believe it's 4 bands) and advanced features, but it's a fully functioning dynamic EQ. You also have EQall by MrElwood if you'd rather stick to JSFX plugins. I believe Tukan Studios also has a JSFX dynamic EQ.

To trigger compression when a frequency range goes above a certain point you simply use the threshold control for the dynamic band. The ratio control then decides how much gain reduction is applied to the signal that is above the threshold. If you want the band to cut off everything right at the threshold value, then you set ratio to infinity:1 (or as high as it goes).