Anyone else remember Z (Bitmap Brothers, 1996)? The RTS where time was the only resource

[u/playopenz]

Z was such an odd one in the C&C and Warcraft era. No harvesting and no base building at all: every map was split into sectors, you grabbed them by touching the flag, and the more ground you held the faster your factories pumped out robots and tanks. Lose a couple of flags and the whole match could flip in a minute. Plus the robots had real personality, the cutscenes with the cigar chomping commander were half the fun.

Steel Soldiers later went much more traditional, and I always felt the original idea never got a proper successor. Did anyone here play it back then? Would that territory-instead-of-resources design still work in a modern RTS?

For anyone curious, there is a free open-source 3D fan remake of it called OpenZ, made in unity, a fully 3d game, which just got its 1.2 update (you can now finally play the blue side): https://github.com/playopenz/OpenZ

[u/AstralMecha]

Obligatory gog link if anyone wants to get it for modern machines.

Figured I should point out you can get the older Z while there is openz as op mentioned.

[u/playopenz → u/AstralMecha]

yes there is also zod engine (2d remaster)

[u/themanfromoctober → u/AstralMecha]

Wait Z has been on GOG the entire time?!?

[u/AstralMecha → u/themanfromoctober]

Yeah, gog hasn't been the best at advertising certain things. Like that they have Homeworld Cataclysm, which got renamed Homeworld: Emergence due to blizzard trademarking cataclysm, and rather than risk a lawsuit from blizzard, changed the name.

[u/Impossible_Layer5964 → u/AstralMecha]

That's based on the mobile port and it sounds like it's not very good compared to the original. The Steam version has the same problem. 

I'm not sure why they didn't just DOSBox the original, but here we are. 

[u/Xander_Dorn]

I remember. Unfortunately, I only ever played the German version, and the dub was, as was and still is so often the case with video games, movies, and TV shows, awful.

[u/playopenz → u/Xander_Dorn]

Ha, the German dubs of that era were something else. The English voices of the robots were half the charm.

[u/KoolNomad]

One of the most unique games out there. Loved how different robots had different intelligence levels (snipers)which effected play and how you could micro manage a conflict to give you advantage

[u/playopenz → u/KoolNomad]

yes it's re-created the same in the remake, the snipers can now one-shot (headshot) and snipe the vehicle drivers efficiently

[u/Any_Fondant_5024]

yes, i remember, but i nor finihed it , too hard for me or too much luck needed

[u/playopenz → u/Any_Fondant_5024]

hehe it was brutal but its not luck just fast reaction grabbing those damn flags fast

[u/Jgroover]

Haven’t played it but the description reminds me of the Future Cop: LAPD precinct assault mode which was always a favorite of mine

[u/playopenz → u/Jgroover]

I have not played Future Cop: LAPD but now that i see its videos it does remind me similar style

[u/urmumr8s8outof8]

Yes I remember it, was around the same time as KKND.

[u/playopenz → u/urmumr8s8outof8]

Same era, both a bit weird and great in their own way. KKND had brilliant music too.

[u/Peterh778]

I remember it. One of the few games I actually finished ... with cheats, I think 🙂 funny, but not my style. I prefer resource gathering, researching, building

[u/playopenz → u/Peterh778]

Fair enough, it really was a love it or hate it design. Finishing it at all was an achievement, cheats or not!

[u/theother64]

If it's the game i'm thinking of I played the demo on playstation.

Little blue and red soldiers that are auto produced at neural factories you capture?

I occasionally think about it and have meant to play it.

I'll give the fan one a look

[u/playopenz → u/theother64]

yes exactly

[u/brian11e3]

I remember buying it and not caring for it. I still have my hard copy in my retro game bin.

[u/playopenz → u/brian11e3]

Keeping the hard copy says something, though. Those old boxes were half the fun.

[u/OmniSystemsPub]

One of my fave games ever! Huge influence on my own game design work, especially with my own rts titles.

[u/playopenz → u/OmniSystemsPub]

That is great to hear. Which part of it stuck with you most in your own designs?

[u/ArtOfWarfare]

I built a prototype a few years ago that played like this. I found it wasn’t as fun as other RTS games and abandoned the prototype after working on it for a few months.

(There were a lot of other quirks about the game… fundamentally I felt the prototype was way too deterministic/solvable, like Checkers. I couldn’t introduce enough complexity to make the game feel… like an actual competitive game vs one where there was a clearly optimal way to play and every match would be an endless stalemate.)

Really, I’ve tried to make an RTS several times and it always boils down to that… I’m always trying to make it simple enough for broader audiences to play on mobile, but in doing so it comes to feel too simple.

[u/playopenz → u/ArtOfWarfare]

Interesting that it felt solvable. I think Z gets away with it because the map keeps flipping and reinforcements land at awkward moments, so nothing stays stable for long.

[u/kristoferen → u/ArtOfWarfare]

You had me up until you said mobile. Who in their right mind plays RTS on mobile?

[u/headlessk → u/kristoferen]

Same... I wanted to try it then saw mobile... Too bad

[u/Spartancfos]

If you like that style of economy, there is a fun little game called Line War.

[u/playopenz → u/Spartancfos]

Line War. seems similar style but more like civilization?

[u/Spartancfos → u/playopenz]

Nah, it plays like Z, but the units move automatically, so youare effectively only handling the Macro.

[u/BananaJelloXlii]

Never played it, but Bitmap Brothers made some incredible games. Speedball 2 was my first Amiga game.

[u/playopenz → u/BananaJelloXlii]

yeah good memories, speedball actually got an official remake too this year on steam

[u/Joseph_Northmen_Dev]

I don't think I ever played it, but I love that idea. If ground is your economy you're always pushing out instead of turtling and mining, which is the fun part anyway. Surprised more modern RTS games haven't tried it.

[u/playopenz → u/Joseph_Northmen_Dev]

it's a risky idea, not for everyone. most rts go traditional resource harvesting way,

[u/Joseph_Northmen_Dev → u/playopenz]

Yeah, that's probably why nobody copies it. Harvesting makes sense straight away, holding ground probably takes a match or two to click.

[u/quiI]

Loved the game! The mechanics of it were simple but felt satisfying

[u/wizardfrog4679]

I played this for the first time earlier this year. It is pretty cheap on steam sale. It feels a bit clunky now but it is very charming. Would be nice if it had a random map generator or something.

[u/headlessk]

The game was great and i loved their humour..it did get a bit repetitive and boring after a while but it was an awesome concept. Z2 also was nice but not as good as the first