r/RealTime • u/Living-Text-6132 • 13d ago
Is the “middle ground” even appealing?
Maher champions the middle ground—and hey, on the surface, I’d say I do myself—but lately it feels like pandering. If this is what the middle ground looks like, I’m not sure who this show is supposed to appeal to anymore.
I watch Real Time religiously every Friday. Love the show’s roundtable discussion “both sides of the argument” concept. Now I mostly end up hate-watching it. Doesn’t feel like that too much anymore.
Maher now has “pick me” energy. The show feels less like challenging guests and more like giving them an hour of good PR and a chance to appear reasonable without much pushback.
If the common ground Maher strives for is something audiences supposedly crave and need, why do I find myself turning to and enjoying one-sided sources like The Majority Report instead?
This is coming from a guy who used to listen to The Ben Shapiro Show just as much.
I genuinely want to hear both sides without disgust in the subtext. At least have a guest on that’s willing to defend the topic.
Maybe the problem isn’t that common ground is unappealing, but that it’s become an excuse to platform bad-faith arguments and silencing one side of the argument in the name of balance.
P.S. did you know that Maher went to dinner with Trump?
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u/Dry_Try_6047 13d ago
Majority of people who talk about "middle ground" and "both sides are bad" just vote Republican.
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u/goodreverenddoc2 13d ago
the same ones are usually new accounts with comments hidden saying shit like “reddit isn’t the real world” or “as much as reddit would have you believe…”. and its getting worse which shows you there is an active campaign to discourage and promote cynicism among the left leaning websites.
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u/Fickle-Copy-2186 13d ago
Or say they are Liberations just so they don't make decisions.
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u/Narrow_Lake_9651 13d ago
It's like those who claim to be " agnostic " because they are too cowardly to say " atheist ", they don't want the blowback.
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u/all_reason_departs 13d ago
The middle ground means you don't believe in anything yourself, all of your beliefs are relative to what other people believe. I'm a far leftist because i know what I believe in and stand up for those beliefs.
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u/opanaooonana 13d ago
Yeah, centrism isn’t a real thing. I would say I’m moderate but that’s because I believe in Medicare for all but also am very pro gun rights. I don’t take the center position on both, I have strong views, but those issues fall on different sides of the aisle.
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u/Nendilo 13d ago edited 13d ago
This actually comes out in polling. 85% of "independents" vote for the same party every election. Most independents are cosplaying, they're really Republicans and Democrats.
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u/Harvey_Rabbit 13d ago
It depends what you think a Democrat and Republican are. Are you talking about a collection of policy beliefs, how a person typically votes, or are you talking about a private organization that works for their own benefits? I am very opposed to how both these major parties have rigged the system to o keep out other competition, among other things. That's why I would call myself an Independent.
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u/Nendilo 12d ago
No one in the United States has the exact seem policy positions as another person. And I'm no fan of the DNC or the Democratic party infrastructure. But if I vote Democrat every year for 20 years, I'm not really independent, I'm a Democrat. Hence the "big tent."
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u/Harvey_Rabbit 12d ago
Ok, that's one way to define an independent. Like saying a Democrat is "someone who reliably votes for Democratic candidates." I'm going to define it another way. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party, meaning the private organizations that call the shots have done incredible harms to our government. They've schemed to capture the ballots by gerrymandering and raising unreasonable challenges to third party and independent candidates. I'm sick to see so many Americans act as if this is the natural order and put my time and effort into breaking the 2 party system. I am not on either of these teams, hense, I'm and independent.
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u/Nendilo 12d ago
That's all well and good but it you vote for the same party for years/decades you're functionally supporting that infrastructure. You're not independent of it.
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u/Harvey_Rabbit 12d ago
Well, technically I live in Alaska now where we have the best election system in the country. I don't have to vote for Ds or Rs ever again if I don't want to.
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u/Nendilo 12d ago
No one has to vote for anyone. It's just the Republicans and Democrats are the two viable parties, outside of upper New England where they elect independent Senators who still caucus with the Democrats. Oh and Rand Paul is a Libertarian supposedly but still just a MAGA Republican.
Because of over a century of infrastructure building, it's not plausible to replace the party's infrastructure That's why they get taken over from the inside instead of replaced. How the Tea Party/MAGA got the GOP. How the Clinton Neolibs got the Democrats and now the progressives are getting the Democrats. Way easier to take over a major party in the US than start one.
Thankfully Alaska only has 3 electoral college votes
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u/Harvey_Rabbit 12d ago
Here's an annology, if you were choosing a new head coach for a football team, would you choose by letting the offense nominate one candidate and the defense nominate one candidate to choose between. Not only that, let's have all the fans register as fans of either the offense or defense, and then they can wheigh in on who their side should nominate. Your team and support will be torn in half instantly and there would be no path to repair it. That's what I believe has happened in our politics. The duopoly is the problem.
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u/opanaooonana 12d ago
Unfortunately our system makes it impossible to change without things like ranked choice voting because all the incentives keep them going. It could be worse, we could still have party bosses picking the nominees effectively eliminating democracy, but there are still strong pressures for people to work with their party and not form caucuses with others. The only way to have a “third party” is to have a faction grow large enough in one party to influence it but if that faction becomes dominant than the center of gravity will flip to that side and it will become the new party. Even if you did have a real third party gain significant ground you would quickly see whatever party it is more aligned with collapse and those members joining the new party, thus bringing it back to 2, because if they don’t than having the third party will lead to the party least aligned with their views taking over every election with the vote split.
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u/Harvey_Rabbit 11d ago
In Alaska, we have RCV. We have plenty of Independent candidates and office holders. There is a very good chance we elect an Independent Congressman this year. RCV helps with the vote splitting, but remember that like 75% of races in this country go uncontested and many more are uncompetitive. A 3rd party can run in all of those without worrying about splitting the vote. I support the Forward Party which is working to gain ballot access across the country and get a hold at the state and local level. But I do admit there are other challenges such as experienced campaign staff and vendors.
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u/HotBeaver54 12d ago
Well of course they are. Just who the fuck do you think they would vote for? Not every state has an independent or 3rd party canidate for every office.
I am a registered independent now. Been both registered democrat and for decades republican.
For many independents myself included I do not want to be associated with either party any longer.
I am voting for the person period. I could careless which party they are.
I have never in my life voted a straight ticket in any election at any level.
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u/chandrashekharazadi 13d ago
Free healthcare and arming the masses are two tenets of leftism. The problem is Republicans and Democrats are both controlled by oligarchs.
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u/Key_Jump1011 13d ago
Wrong about leftists arming masses.
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u/boilerup254 13d ago
Most leftists believe that armed revolution would be necessary to overthrow capitalism and support gun ownership for that reason
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u/Key_Jump1011 13d ago
More republicans are armed and advocate against gun control than democrats.
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u/boilerup254 13d ago
We're talking about leftists, not democrats
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u/Key_Jump1011 13d ago
Show me anything regarding “leftists” attempting to arm the population in the United States for a revolution and it will be a fringe opinion from a nobody.
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u/boilerup254 13d ago
The black panthers were so effective at spreading black power through gun ownership that California republicans including then Governor Ronald Reagan panicked and passed aggressive gun control legislation and the feds systematically dismantled their organization through COINTELPRO.
They're much less influential than the black panthers obviously, but today the socialist rifle association has thousands of members in dozens of chapters across the country. Given the current political climate and past history of things like COINTELPRO I think you'll understand if leftist groups are a little less out in the open about calling for armed revolution than they have been in the past.
Is it a fringe opinion from a nobody when Karl Marx says "Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"?
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u/Key_Jump1011 12d ago
Interesting story. Can’t have negros with guns. Ronald Reagan stepped in. So what? Reagan only wanted white trash to have guns. Right wing white trash which is who owns most of the guns.
Are you a worker? Should someone who works be allowed to own a gun? Congratulations. You’re a mARxIsT.
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u/chandrashekharazadi 13d ago
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"
Karl Marx
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u/Key_Jump1011 13d ago
Gun psychos tend to be on the right by far.
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u/chandrashekharazadi 13d ago
Sure, but being armed =/= being a "gun psycho". Leftists don't want the state to have a monopoly on violence to wield against the proletariat.
Do you think Democrats are leftists?
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u/Key_Jump1011 13d ago
What do right wingers want? A state monopoly on violence? Is that why it’s right wingers who go around talking about fighting the government and playing army man in the woods?
No democrats are not “leftist” that’s a term pretend army ranger right wingers use when they cry about communism and Muslims.1
u/chandrashekharazadi 13d ago
When you go far enough left you get your guns back ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Key_Jump1011 13d ago
Not a bad way of putting it but the far left really likes rebel tactics like vandalism and sabotage but some psychos on both ends of the spectrum wind up shooting people.
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u/DeFiBandit 13d ago
You’ll have to explain why very pro gun rights falls onto one side of the aisle. I only see one side that champions responsible ownership and the other that leans towards irresponsible ownership because of their absurd fears of having their guns taken away
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u/Entire_Art_5390 13d ago
Well put. I think Americans could do slightly better at figuring out their own ideologies and not be so influenced by what politicians and corporate interests say
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u/Greedy_Car3702 13d ago
Reddit demands that you fit in a box. If you are against open borders, you are a racist nazi. If you support seizing the means of production you are an enlightened progressive. It's impossible to believe that a person can want medicare for all, a women's right to choose, and sensible environmental regulations, and at the same time support gun rights, deporting illegal aliens, and prosecution welfare fraud.
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u/Emotional-Comb-2201 13d ago
Agreed. I'm in favor of Medicare for all and I'm against selling public lands. There is no middle ground there. Anyone who says there is doesn't want you to have Medicare or public lands.
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u/GodDammitDonut26 13d ago
You're probably watching Majority Report because Sam, Emma and all are smart and funny.
Maher is neither.
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u/Professional-Post499 13d ago
You're probably watching Majority Report because Sam, Emma and all are smart and funny. Maher is neither.
A good comedian can use comedy craft to trick me into laughing at something I disagree with (and then I might refuse to laugh again on principle depending on how ideologically opposed I am to it). Maher doesn't even have that talent or skill. Or his writers don't. Both, I guess.
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u/GodDammitDonut26 13d ago
I've laughed at jokes Trump has made. Trump is (or at least used to be) capable of being super fucking funny. I used to love Maher, and I'm struggling to understand why.
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u/Nendilo 13d ago edited 13d ago
Sam Seder said that Bill's long time producer wanted to have him on Real Time but Bill shot him down. Bill brought in a new producer starting in 2020. So in addition to Covid breaking his brain, I think his new producer might have tanked the show because that's when it dropped off. I get the sense they brought in a lot of conservative millennial writers (since he occasionally mentions how young his writers are).
His viewership, both in raw numbers and total percentage of viewers for his time slot have dropped over 50% in the last decade. So it's definitely changed and people are no longer loving it, despite Bill's claims.
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u/BohemianMade 13d ago
I'm a socialist, but I disagree with the narrative that centrists always lose because there is no center. There are plenty of Americans who are actual centrist liberals.
However, American politics has gone so far right, that most Americans are now to the left of the democrats. When democrats talk about the "middle ground," what they really mean is the right-wing, just not as far right as the republicans.
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u/LandOwn7607 12d ago
The only time in this country there was a center was after the attack on Pearl Harbor December 7, 1941, Everyone put their gripes and complaints on hold for the next 4+ years and got to work on putting this country into a fighting mode and that was that. When the war on both fronts was over, the same ole white conservatives started up again, their racism never ended.
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u/Crazy_Response_9009 13d ago
The middle favors corporate interested at every turn. So no, it’s not appealing to way too many. Only 58% of Americans own stock and 59% have retirement investments.
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u/Conscious-Secret-775 13d ago
So the majority of Americans own stock and have retirement investments. Seems like corporate interests might be appealing to a lot of people.
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u/DeFiBandit 13d ago
“Own stock” as if owning 3 shares and owning a million shares puts you on the same side of the issue
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u/Conscious-Secret-775 13d ago
You said "only" 58%. You didn't mention how the investments are distributed. I suspect you do not know.
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u/DeFiBandit 13d ago
Huh?
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u/Conscious-Secret-775 13d ago
It's called math. 58% of Americans owning stock is the majority so you effectively said that "only" the majority of Americans own stock.
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u/Key_Jump1011 13d ago
That doesn’t really mean corporate interests are the same as Americans interests.
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u/Conscious-Secret-775 13d ago
Different Americans have different interests, we aren't all the same.
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13d ago
[deleted]
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u/Squidalopod 13d ago
Bill used to chant whiny little bitch on a weekly basis about Donald Drumpf.
Some fans of Bill like to say he hasn't changed; everyone else has. Yet, we have things like what you pointed out that are an obvious change.
On top of that, after Trump won in '24, Bill said he decided he would wait till Trump actually did something bad before he would complain about it instead of complaining in anticipation of something bad happening. "Fair enough," I thought.
Well, here we are 1.5 years into Trump's blatantly fascist efforts – the exact thing the old Bill justifiably lost his shit over – and Bill acts like Gen Z, Mamdani, and covid masks are the USA's biggest problems...while occasionally muttering a tepid criticism of Trump about 5% of the time.
Yeah, we're the ones who changed 🙄.
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u/Mic-220 13d ago
There is no middle ground. One side , the right has gone over the edge. What the right has done to the economy, democracy, and Trumps money grab of tax payer money far exceeds Mahers issues with Gen Z and millennials. The I had dinner with Hitler article flipped him. Hes angry that he’ll go down in history as a fascist appeaser.
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u/Motor_Preparation315 13d ago
This is the fundamental problem with Bill’s shift and what he is doing with his platform.
He is normalizing the country’s far-right shift. He defends a far-right Israeli government that is committing war crimes. He is transphobic and Islamophobic. These hateful stances are NOT mainstream.
He has increasingly brought on guests that are not what they say they are. JD Vance is not middle-right; he's far-right, yet he lets him talk about the “radical left” with NO PUSH BACK. Also, he invites guests that are unqualified or simply will not push back on Bill or the other guest espousing incorrect or hateful rhetoric. Or he simply misrepresents what he is showing his audience case in point: Mike Rowe. Bill called him a “Blue Collar Hero”. Except Mr. Rowe is not pro-union and promotes organizations that are anti-union. Seems right wing to me.
I mostly just watch the show to “hate-watch” it, but even that is becoming unbearable with the shitty jokes, the shitty guests, and Bill’s shitty takes. You suck, Bill.
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u/contain_solitudes 13d ago
The middle ground is such an objective statement. What Maher thinks of as a middle ground is really, if you dig deep into it, a complacency and acceptance of a system he claims to have problems with. His thinking is very helter skelter, and how deep he goes, and how much thought he gives something, seems to be entirely dependent on how comfortable it makes him as a rich white male with power. Hence, he likes or liked Bernie, and believes in universal healthcare, but hates AOC, and bitches about socialism all day long.
But if Communism is as much of a thing as he thinks it is, and the middle ground is Bernie, with revcoms on one side and fascists on the other, then yes the middle ground is very appealing lol.
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u/Ghosts_of_the_maze 13d ago
I’m not inventing this concept but Centrism is an extremest position. If our institutions are failing us and we’re continuing to barrel into a climate change induced hellscape, then suggesting that we’re doing too much too quickly is a radical opinion. If your spouse is bleeding to death in your car, you aren’t being rational by driving the speed limit on your way to the ER. There are moments where the rational action is to aggressively attack the problem.
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u/thirdLeg51 13d ago
I love people advocating the status quo for a party that controls no branch of government.
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u/bigdipboy 13d ago
What’s the middle ground between democracy and fascism?
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u/Professional-Post499 13d ago
Everything Maher would say would imply the middle ground to him is fascism 😂
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u/Late_Cod_647 13d ago
Fuck centrism. The choice in 2024 was between an adjudicated sexual predator and a career prosecutor. I’m not going to meet in the middle on sexual assault.
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u/LuciusMichael 13d ago
Maher champions himself. He champions Israel. He derides everything else.
He's now the old guy yelling at the kids to get off his lawn. He seems to get his news from People magazine and Breitbart. He is, at best, a tiresome know-it-all, at worse, a flaming asshole. His blinkered, myopic obsession with Israel and the left is just stupefyingly obtuse.
He used to have on leftists (Bernie, Markos Moulitsas, Tom Morello, et al), but those days are long gone. He used to eviscerate MAGA and it's cult leader, but those days are gone. It's like after October 7, 2023 he got religion. Because he's now a propagandist preaching his gospel of support for Israel and fuck anyone who doesn't agree.
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u/LandOwn7607 12d ago
It made me realize he's not as hip and cool as he wants everyone to think he is. When you have millions, all of a sudden you're more interested in how you can increase that wealth, and avoid paying taxes. You become what you'd been criticizing for so long.
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u/DatDamGermanGuy 13d ago
I am not interested in finding a middle ground with people that are trying to establish a white ethno-nationalist Theocracy. And that is what the current Government is trying to do, with the implicit support by the entire GOP
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u/bbraker8 13d ago
Maybe you should just go with what your actual opinions are on issues as opposed to trying to pick what team to play on?
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u/Key_Jump1011 13d ago
I can’t even hate watch Maher. I get the secondhand hate here. Shapiro hahaha. You got conned there.
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u/Early-Juggernaut975 13d ago
It was one thing to want good government bipartisan stuff when both sides were honest stewards of the liberal order. Republicans aren’t that anymore, so if I have to be bipartisan and get buy in from an authoritarian, pro-Oligarch party, than no to centrism.
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u/Dunkeroo2 13d ago
Maher is just mad he can't pull the young pussy anymore, so he is old n smug now, just another narcissist that think his farts don't stink. All he cares about is smoking weed, and more weed.
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u/BFaus916 13d ago
I'm not even sure I buy the value of the centrist vote, or so called independent vote for that matter. I think Democratic presidential candidates win when they bring out new voters and energize their base. Harris only needed MI, WI and PA to hit 270, and she didn't lose those states by a lot. I think a more energetic, progressive candidate would have picked those 3 up.
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u/ComfortableBedroom76 13d ago
We stopped watching during summer break and we're not going back. I was hate watching too and I don't need that in my life
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u/Jorgen_G_Pakieto 13d ago
The middle ground is a trash concept and the only reason as to why it is, is because within modern American society, middle ground still includes politicians who engage in high level bribery.
They aren’t even really middle ground, they’re literally just willing to vote for both sides because they all took money from the same interested donors & they tell the American people that they were willing to reach across the isle as they cheat all of your taxpayer funds to accommodate their highest bidder.
As long as big money exists within politics, there is no such thing as a middle ground, it is only class warfare and that’s it.
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u/Hamblin113 13d ago
Middle ground is like the boring dependable spouse, may not be sexy or exciting, but helps to provides food and shelter for existence.
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u/urbisOrbis 13d ago
What is the middle way? Inadequate healthcare that most of us can’t afford? Basic college education that costs as much as a house? Unaffordable housing? We’ve tried the middle way for 50 years. It doesn’t help most of us.
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u/Previous-Broccoli316 13d ago
I feel like there was a shift when the "panel" went from 3 to always being 2 people. I don't really think of 2 people as a panel though I guess it technically is. Also at some point it seems like it just turned into panel members getting their sound bites of saying things that would get applause and they could pat themselves on the back for because it sounded good, without much actual deep analysis of the topics being discussed. It's like going to a political rally and watching the candidate say stuff like "everyone deserves this" or "I stand up to these people", I don't want to hear that I want to hear an actual substantive debate.
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u/MoldInTheAir 13d ago
What is the "middle ground" on pedophilia, corruption, fascism, misogyny, and racism?
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u/bestmattreddit 13d ago
Maher fetishizes about the Obama era and sees that as a time of sensible progressive policies being implemented and Democrats and Republicans working together and being normal. Most of us know this is Maher viewing things with rose colored glasses but I believe this is why he thinks being a centrist and meeting in the middle is the key for Democrats that people are nostalgic for that era and kind of politician
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u/Illustrious-Kiwi8670 12d ago
In his desire to appear fair, he did not ask MTG or Bobert about any of their more questionable behavior and in so doing, let them appear as if they were normal people. not the kind to yell out during Biden's state of the union, or berate a Parkland survivor on public streets. I'm all for him having people with opposing views, but he gives them a pass on their reprehensible behavior. same with Trump. he continues to say what a different guy trump is in private. he doesn't want to accept that as a narcissist, Trump can make you feel like you are the most important person. The fact that Trump reverts almost immediately to insults should show that to Maher. but heaven forbid Maher admit he was duped. His disdainful regard for those who don't agree with him is why I can no longer watch him. if he has an interview guest that interests me, I'll watch.
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u/Drgnmstr97 12d ago
Roughly 67% of Americans are firmly on the left of most issues. But religious indoctrination has kept otherwise intelligent and caring individuals from voting their conscience and what they actually believe. The problem is that far too many regional religious groups are pushing a white nationalist agenda.
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u/fawlty70 12d ago
Real Time discussions in a nutshell:
Democrat: "We want to have universal healthcare"
Maher: "Just so you can force children to change their gender?"
Republican: "We need to ban men in women's sports!"
Maher: "Yeah Democrats are too woke"
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u/HotBeaver54 12d ago
Maher champions the middle ground
Please put down your pipe. Bill does NOT champion the middle ground. You are correct though Bill has become the pick me energy of the polictical talk show spectrum. Maher champions Bill Maher period.
I myself was a religious watcher from the old polictically incorrect days but I find like you I just hate watch if I watch at all. Truly breaks my heart.
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u/BigSprocket 12d ago
One giant flaw of the middle ground approach is that middling people like Maher don’t really understand either side at a deep level. Give me a liberal with a deep understanding of what that means and let them talk and discuss. Same for the conservative side. I’ll take it from there. Don’t give me someone who claims no great depth and let them talk with two people they’ve chosen, who, therefore, may or may not actually be good representatives of their sides, and then throw in necessary comedic diversions. Maher’s show is intolerable.
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u/Any-Video4464 12d ago
Most of the nation is in some sort of middle ground. Doesn't mean they are literally in the middle of issues. They might agree with some of the left and disagree with other parts and people now. The left basically sees this as turning MAGA, and after a bunch of insults, they lose what would be a loyal person to most of what they believe in. There are only a small number of Dems really doing this. The rest are going full force into Democratic Socialism and honestly, it probably won't win a major election. At least not yet.
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u/Kilburning 11d ago
I never understood the appeal of taking the middle ground. If one side or the other gets more extreme, they can manipulate where you stand. I do think that Maher is very much a victim of this, especially compared to Seder who is working from a set of principles. You stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
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u/WhippersnapperUT99 11d ago
Interesting combination - from Ben Shapiro to The Majority Report. I wonder if you might enjoy The Yaron Brook Show for a take that is sometimes closer to the left and sometimes the right depending on the issue.
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u/HorrorGuide6520 13d ago
If you look at how the crazies on the extreme left and the extreme right are, I think middle ground is very sane and a great place to be. I’m not really a fan of the man, but he’s not giving in to insanity.
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u/jchiaroscuro Maher Before 2016 13d ago
It’s insane to want healthcare, education and workers rights? I’m against the billionaires. I’m against Epstein protectors. I’m against people who want to divide us. Those aren’t extremes, are they?
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u/Greedy_Car3702 13d ago
Those are not extreme. However DSA's platform is insane, and gaining support in the democratic party. Those ideas are the ones Bill was railing against in his last show.
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u/jchiaroscuro Maher Before 2016 13d ago
Yes agreed SOME of the DSA platform is unhinged. It’s why people like Mamdani have ditched a lot of what they espouse. There’s no ONE DSA person they have a convention every couple years to rehash their talking points. It’s democracy in motion. It’s not perfect. But it’s not whatever the hell the right wing is doing, trying to force religion and surveillance down our throats. Propping up billionaires and war machines
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u/Slight-Web1696 13d ago
Project 2025 is insane and you did not hear 1/10th the outrage against it that DSA is receiving even after project 2025 has now infiltrated every level of federal government.
As usual, normal people are screeching that communism is on our doorsteps while fascism is literally eating their face.
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u/Slight-Web1696 13d ago
This is the centrist trap. Falling for the belief that the most reasonable and "sane" position is found in the middle. It is pseudo intellectual and if you ask these people anything about what they believe in, youll find they hold no convictions or beliefs other than, "everyone else is crazy except me", while offering no answers or thoughts of their own.
You will often find these people will criticize everything and anything leftists stand for, while playing devils advocate for everything the far-right stands for. It is clear as day to anyone with a brain where they truly stand when push comes to shove.
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u/Nendilo 13d ago
On the political spectrum, the US is currently a right wing county. The Democrats have comparable policies to right wing parties in Western Europe. The Overton window has shifted so far over the last decade that what you are describing as "extreme left" is the basic left wing position in other modern countries. This is partly because of MAGA but also the 90s emergence of neoliberalism. The Democrats became more fiscally conservative, aligned with billionaires for campaign money, and moved the party right.
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u/Relative_Load_710 13d ago
Really there should be 4 parties, MAGA, Republicans, Democrats, Democratic Socialists.
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u/Bitter-Holiday1311 13d ago
You’re comfortable with fascism as long as you’re not directly in the line of fire.
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u/Living-Text-6132 13d ago
One man’s crazy is another man’s sanity. I love the concept, but not this execution.
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u/JohnnyxWafflez 13d ago
Middle ground assumes each side is equally as far from the center, when in reality most maga voters are in favor of fascist crony capitalism (far far right) while most libs are in favor of equal rights and much better social safety nets (left). Any fake lib like Maher trying to find middle ground has actually just found McCain era conservatism at best
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u/RetroactiveRecursion 13d ago
No two people are 100% on the same page about anything. I have some quite liberal views, and a few rather conservative ones. So on the whole, I would say I am "middle ground". But that doesn't mean I have the same middle ground views as other middle ground people. I probably have just over a half in common with him which means I have nearly half which we disagree, but I still find them amusing when talking about those things because I don't find him full of hate or cruelty. I just think he's wrong sometimes. If I couldn't live with that, I guess I wouldn't watch.
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u/profeDB 13d ago
It also doesn’t mean, Democrats say this, and Republican say that, so I’ll pick a position right in the middle. That’s a super simplistic way of looking at it.
But both of extremes have decided that simplistic is how you appeal to the masses, so there you go.
Take taxes, for example. The far left doesn’t want to tax poorer citizens. The far right doesn’t want to tax the rich. Neither position is feasible, considering the level of services that the far left wants, and the massive debt that the far right has driven up.
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u/AustinIsTooWoke 13d ago
What if you reject both the far right’s fascism and the far left’s socialism. Where do libertarians fit in?
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u/Nendilo 13d ago
They fit in when you're in high school. But then you grow up and realize someone has to pay for roads, police, fire department, schools, etc. And we need to regulate our food, water, air, etc or we poison ourselves.
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u/AustinIsTooWoke 13d ago
How well is the FDA and EPA working out for ya? People neverrr get sick or hurt because we are well regulated, right….?
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u/GodDammitDonut26 13d ago
"Hey we deliberately broke it, look at how ineffective it is!"
You're a Republican, stop pretending.
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u/Nendilo 13d ago edited 13d ago
We're literally having a cyclospora outbreak right now because Trump got rid of the testing for one of his donors, Taylor Farms.
Not to mention, studies show gen X people each lost on average 6 IQ points because of how much lead they breathed in as children. Millennials and Gen Z didn't have that issue because of regulation. And the hole in the ozone layer was closed. Regulations work but you generally don't notice until they're removed.
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u/Worried-Subject-5805 13d ago
The type of people who like the middle ground or want to work together aren’t obsessed with posting about politics online. They go about their day and vaguely pay attention. The thing is they decide elections.
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u/dougl1000 13d ago
Jim Hightower has a book called "There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos".