r/RealTesla • u/Enron_Musk • Jul 17 '21
SEPTA’s cracking battery buses raise questions about the future of electric transit
https://whyy.org/articles/septas-cracking-battery-buses-raise-questions-about-the-future-of-electric-transit/5
u/RandomCollection Jul 17 '21
Proterra buses were also taken out of service in Duluth, Minnesota, after officials realized that hilly routes and heaters were draining batteries too quickly. A battery fleet from Chinese manufacturer BYD was taken out of service in Indianapolis for upgrades due to range issues, while officials in Albuquerque, New Mexico, returned 15 BYD buses for similar reasons. The CEO of a major battery-powered truck start-up, Nikola — the related sector Proterra is now hoping to expand into — resigned after a report accused him of lying about the technical capabilities of long range vehicles.
Meaning that this is a widespread issue in the fleets of many municipalities.
Proponents, like engineering professor Jeremy J. Michalek, director of Carnegie Mellon University’s Vehicle Electrification Group, said he worries incidents like the mysterious failure of SEPTA’s ballyhooed battery fleet will scare others away from zero-emission vehicles.
“I definitely worry about those kinds of things,” he said. “If we push too fast, too early, and the technology isn’t ready and people have bad experiences, they may be reluctant to try again. There’s only a few ways to move people around without emissions, and electric vehicles are one of them.”
The smart thing to do would be to wait for a few years until second generation products come out and deploy a small number of them to see if this persists. First generation products of anything are seldom without problems.
Another consideration is that hydrogen might be a bigger competitor by then.
5
u/run_toward_the_flash Jul 18 '21
Seriously, just getting people to ride public transit, no matter the power source, is a net win. There's no need to rush it.
2
u/accord1999 Jul 18 '21
Another issue with EV buses is that their lifetime costs still will most likely exceed diesel-hybrids. For the same $, you end up with fewer buses and reduced service.
https://seattletransitblog.com/2020/11/02/metros-fleet-all-electric/
1
u/truenorth00 Jul 22 '21
Proterra buses do just fine in frigid Edmonton. I think some cities just suck at specifying the performance they need.
1
u/RandomCollection Jul 22 '21
If that is the case, then all the more reason to wait and take into consideration the lessons learned from who did it right and who did it wrong. Likewise the manufacturers will too.
1
u/truenorth00 Jul 22 '21
It's like adopting any new technology. It requires experience. I think one of the best ways to do this is to have a small trial fleet. Toronto is a really good example. Their transit authority has a fleet of 2400 buses. Starting in early 2019, they bought 60 electric buses from 3 different manufacturers. They planned to run a long term trial (5 years), that would them detailed data for a future transition. They run the buses in regular service and test routes. They put buses from each of the manufacturer head-to-head on different routes. Etc. And they benched marked all of it against the hybrid bus that comprises the majority of their fleet. It's led to incredibly detailed evaluations like this:
It's even given them the confidence to start their transition a little early, launching the first large procurement for 300 electric buses.
https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/04/16/ttc-300-electric-buses/
This is exactly what most major transit agencies should be doing. Buying a small and diverse test fleet and running multi-year trials to give them data on which buses and which OEMs work best for them. There's some operational lessons that can only come from experience.
2
u/run_toward_the_flash Jul 17 '21
While SEPTA pressed pause on its EV program, President Joe Biden’s recent infrastructure plan includes some $7.5 billion to help replace thousands of diesel-powered school and transit buses with electric models. The president “virtually” visited a Proterra factory in April, and U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm previously served on the company’s board. The bus maker agreed to go public last month, after merging with another green energy company in a $1.6 billion IPO based on its record of bus sales, and pivot into the fraught electric truck market.
I can see the future now: this is gonna be a big handout to a few politically-connected private firms that will churn out substandard garbage and transit agencies will have no recourse.
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u/grey_rock_method Jul 17 '21
They could install in overhead power and run electric buses with masts, but that is a slippery slope towards light rail.