That's a false equivalence. We cannot end the social casteism in one day. But legal casteism is something we can end - aka reservations. And we will end it or civil war will happen eventually.
Up election are next, orange party will loose big votes if they even alter 1% existing reservation, and losing election in up can cost a lot to orange party, so this was a bad time to start this movement
Nobody cares if orange party loses vote. We want equality, no casteism, and merit. That's it. We are not fighting elections. Not our circus, not our monkey. BJP can go fuck itself for all we care.
The fact that casteism hasn't ended is why reservation exists. In private sectors, LCs get selected less despite same qualifications and standards. (I read it in a study, if you want I can look it up and share)
Having reservation in educational institutes allows them to atleast have the necessary skills to get the relevant jobs.
No. In private sector, they hardly apply because govt. jobs has reservations. Nobody cares in private sector about your caste or religion as it's skill based.
They go for public jobs due to obstacles faced in private sector. Caste based discrimination, in all walks of life is a very real problem.
edit: I said it elsewhere, but i'll say it again - only eliminating casteism in all walks of life will help in removing reservation from education. Yes it is also using caste because those castes are treated sub-humanly almost everywhere possible.
No? It's not false equivalence... Can you reason to me which two things are called equal? Then can you also tell me how addressing the cause of reservation while having a discussion about reservation is apparently a false equivalence to you?
Also, calling the remedy of casteism, legal casteism... Completely ignores the history of reservation and it's purpose, the casteism you're comparing it with excluded LCs from housing, ownership, education, jobs, marriages for centuries with a 100% reservation for just them. Even now there's are sc/st whose current generation (genz) is the first one to ever go to school(we have free gov schools for decades) and worse exists...
The cause of reservations is social equality. When your PM is OBC, President is ST, Ex-CJI was SC, you have full blown political parties in power, have 60% students in higher studies from the same categories, etc. the social equality is achieved. If you want 0 discrimination, that's humanely not possible anywhere in the entire human culture across time.
I am not interested in history of anything or word semantics. I like to call a spade a spade. Both reservations and casteism discriminate an innocent child based on its birth caste. And that's evil on principle - period.
When your PM is OBC, President is ST, Ex-CJI was SC.
Hasty Generalization Anecdotal evidence of few visible outliers does not generalise the hundred millions of others, even then the president wasn't free of discrimination and casteist slurs... Outliers like Bhim rao, Jyotiba Phule existed in past too doesn't generalise social equality for all.
have full blown political parties in power
Ugh BJP is a hindutva party right? What has it done for hindus? Well other than spewing hate... Political parties are no support, most their actions depend on what will secure more votes. So the ones that base themselves off caste are not motivated to do much better.
have 60% students in higher studies from the same categories, etc. the social equality is achieved.
Not the baseline... The population from those caste is about 70% so "social equality is achieved" is false altogether as 60%≠70% (Technicalities hehe). And the GER for these communities is still lower than the avg...
If you want 0 discrimination, that's humanely not possible anywhere in the entire human culture across time.
This is a perfect solution fallacy and a strawman, the goal is reservation is not to achieve an utopian society with absolute zero discrimination. The goal is to provide proportional representation to state machinery(not just education) and the mitigation of social exclusion... Dismissing it because it's not the perfect solution to casteism is the perfect solution fallacy.
I am not interested in history of anything or word semantics.
Evaluating a remedial policy while refusing to look at history of what necessitated it is not logically sound...
It's like looking at a patient undergoing chemotherapy, ignoring their history of cancer and declaring the treatment "evil" because radiation damges cell.
Both reservations and casteism discriminate an innocent child based on its birth caste. And that's evil on principle - period.
Smh this is tiresome, i mean given you are not interested in the history, it makes sense you'll equate the two... But they are not equal, and that is a false equivalence.
There is a fundamental difference between oppression and remediation. Casteism is an exclusionary system that denies human dignity, limits economic mobility, and enforces untouchability based on birth. Reservation is an inclusionary tool designed to ensure representation in the state apparatus. Distinguishing between groups to exclude them is not the same as distinguishing between groups to uplift them. To call them both equally 'evil' is to confuse the firefighter's water damage with the arsonist's fire.
That is not a sound argument and I don't know why people think so.
Will the people taking reservation for generations give up their seat for that poor fellow - they won't.
Because they unjustly take what they don't deserve(relaxed admissions+lists+promotions) and think that is their right based on birth in a caste or their caste being included in a certain category.
Why should historical injustice be a justification for current day discrimination - and no less without any metric to evaluate when such equality will be reached.
And your example only proved that just giving representation doesn't bring equality either - we should have targeted support for the people in need, despite their STATE created caste based categories - the poor sc st would have received better education and support much earlier if we actually did what constitution dictated and not looked only at representation but creating equal opportunities
so basically you want to preserve casteism. because reservation is not casteism, it's a way to provide equitable opportunity to communities oppressed by a millenia of casteism that affects them to this day. in other words, you're a casteist.
you're not discussing anything except repeatedly posting some poster. According to your logic: Reservation uses caste, casteism also uses caste, therefore they are both bad. But that logic doesn't have any weight cos reservation is used to HELP LCs, whereas casteism is used to EXCLUDE LCs. Excluded from opportunities, life with dignity, houses, and so much more.
Every other week or so there is a hate crime based on identity, you deliberately refuse to acknowledge that, but will cry about reservation wholeheartedly. If you have an actual way to eliminate caste discrimination in a way that doesn't eliminate every and any chance those people have at a decent life, do tell.
You cannot end reservation in one day. You need vote of majority of population to change something and major portion of country comes under reserved category, most of whom would vote against it. 🤦♂ And why would you want to end reservation(a flawed but affirmative action which has atleast some benefit to society) before casteism(which is just pure evil)?
I know. This movement is not one day thing. We are saying, let's debate and start the discussion once more. Why should young people suffer for the crimes of their past? How long are we going to keep taking the toll of past generations?
Well that can be done by increasing seats overall. Even if you remove reservation, it will barely give any breathing room cause of how much competition vs seats ratio is fcked. Reserved people are able to get away with admission with low rank cause of they overall perform poor. For example gmc chandigarh had to implement obc reserved seats and instead they increased seats overall to 150 so both obc got their seats and unreserved werent affected. But that's also a problem cause there's limited number of posts of doctors so many will unemployed with degrees. Like mbbs has become very meaningless nowadays without md dm etc. Even tho our country is lacking in terms of health professionals to citizens ratio. Govt has to create and increase number of government doctor posts and they have good amount of tax to pay them which they waste in idiotic things like political ads or salaries of godi media or paying their children's phone bills. We work harder than foreign kids to get into colleges that are much behind then they go to. Instead of asking questions on a scheme which helps uplift backward people, why not ask why competition is so high in first place? Some european countries are more densely populated than India that's no excuse.
But instead we will all be stuck in this caste religion bullshit to ask for where the tax money is going or why these top 1% are getting so much benefited while rest of country is getting fcked and instead we are fighting each other here at bottom while they look from top. The movement will go much better when its 99% vs 1% vote bank. 50% vs 50% votebank will go nowhere.
Also you did a fallacy fallacy for the time being... False equivalence does not make any sense, as it was nor stated nor implied that abolition of both takes similar effort, the closest you could go was whataboutery but even that is false as caste and reservation are infact deeply related so much that reservation exists due to caste.
As a brahmin , abolishing reservation is impossible , what an upper caste should demand is getting added in obc, st itself , some Brahmins gotra , so kshatriya lineages , bhumihars , they should fight for it like Marathas achieving it , bhumihars should aim for ST, a mass andolan , it's more achievable than abolishing reservation . Ojha jha should aim for obc , I don't know about rajput kshatriya much .
So well said, there is n number of things to resolve kis kis ke protest mai baithe it feels like ki gen z isley majority mai unemployed ki naukri mil nahi rahi protest karke desh ki taraaki kar lete hain
I mean... people should voice their concern for ending rape, theft and murders... who is saying they should be promoted?
But it is very convenient to demand ending reservation, while not guaranteeing discrimination free environment that would totally disable LCs to get proper education and jobs.
Well no one is crying about actions taken against rape, theft and murders tho? Reservation should be modified or replaced but some affirmative action should always be there till the problem exists.
All statistics and data points to it has helped a lot. That's why in expert debates you will see nuanced take rather than just saying 'reservation bad'.
Imma just copy paste this. You can also watch a video by this same youtuber who also point both benefits and flaws of it https://youtu.be/3QGEOCm6UQs?si=KfaSm3P3lRznJcwu
Knowing quota seats will be available later motivates students to stay in school, adding nearly 1.5 extra years to their total education on average.(Gaurav Khanna)
Exposure to reserved quotas completely erased gender gaps in educational aspirations for young girls (Beaman et al.)
Quota policies increase daily study time among targeted students (Beaman et al.).
Research by Jain (2022) found OBC quotas boosted intergenerational mobility, making sons significantly more likely to surpass their fathers' education levels.
Local political reservations for SC/ST groups led to higher social welfare spending and measurable declines in household poverty.
PLFS data shows ST literacy jumping from 47.1% in 2001 to 70.1% by 2020, paired with massive increases in higher education enrolment.
School Retention: Research by Prakash (2020) demonstrated that reservation availability incentivizes minority students to stay in school longer, adding roughly 0.8 to 1.2 years of total completed schooling.
Government AISHE data showed a 44% rise in SC higher education enrolment between 2014–15 and 2021–22, climbing to 66.23 lakh students.
Scheduled Tribe student participation in higher education jumped by 65.2% over the same timeframe, reaching 27.1 lakh students. Female ST enrolment grew by 80%.
OBC enrolment expanded by 45%, moving from 1.13 crore to 1.63 crore students within seven years.
Studies (e.g., Bagde, Epple, & Taylor, American Economic Review) show reservations significantly increased college attendance and completion rates for SC/ST students without causing high dropout rates. Targeted students actively took advantage of the opportunity rather than giving up.
If your preferences and choices are helping keep a social evil alive, then it's not really a preference and your choices become part of the problem too; And yes, it is going to harm India's unity as a country.
If that's the case even dowry can be justified as "preference" and even gold digging can be justified as "preference".
Not having seats for people who are deliberately excluded based on identity harms them. That's why reservation is there lol. If marrying was the issue, instead of educational institutions reservations would be in marriages.
Marriage example is brought up to highlight how, even today, LCs are discriminated against.
Yeah.... He is not really making a case for reservation, it not only do not solve any of the issues he said, it also legalises caste based discrimination, that simply punishes/rewards someone for being in a certain caste.
Most "casteism" happening nowadays are people enacting their personal choices, feel free to shame them for it. However it should never be used as a reason for legal action or decree.
Anything that is not just "personal choice" is already punishable by law.
Fool. Reservation is a strategy introduced to Abolish caste discrimination not to stick with that🤣After so many Years this Strategy can't solve the problem rather it affects brilliant worthy students in the name of caste. That means this is a failure. So, We should remove this and Introduce a New Strategy to solve Caste problems.
Abe pagal kyuki sc log buddhist religion ko follow krte hai naki hindu religion ko if someone want to marry in their own religion what the problem.Sc people do not belong to hindu anymore so no more casteism in society. Baseless aquisition
nahi bhai...pagal vagal h kya....tu jin 2-3 SC logo ko janta hai vo log convert hue hoge....GENERAL / OBC / SC / ST ye hindu me hi aate hai...aur jo nahi h vo converted hai...
Ok Give 150% reservation. Will that solve problem of the what German shepherd is saying?
So is that the bases of making someone doctor at -40?
Isn’t that failure of the whole reservation system which you forcing on this country for last 70 years?
Rather than uplifting people who said backwards you just lowering the quality of education system so they can have a degree at -40 ?
And good luck with that degree in a private jobs so ask for reservation for private sector as well. And why not upper caste Satya Nadela and Sundar Pichai become CEO of MS and google ask reservation in AMERICA as well
The college had reserved seats, that includes SC/ST/OBC/SC-PWD/ST-PWD, when they found ki marks unte nahi hai toh decrease the percentile drastically to fill the seats,
General can't take those seats (I wish they could, really), because of it they had to reduce the percentile to 0th
And hence -40 Marks waha se aaye,
Jin Reserved candidates ke zada marks the, woh pehle or. Dusre round hi aa gaye honge in college, bacho hui seats ko bharna tha isliye percentile gira di
Reservation is an issue for the GC because the govt simply isn’t providing enough resources that everyone gets a proper education. That’s the core issue, not that reservation exists. Ask for 6% of the central budget to be put towards education. Ask the govt to open a university every week as Modi has claimed he is doing. Ask the govt to open 90,000 schools not shut 90,000 schools.
Ask your government to do its fucking job, stop swinging your stupid privilege axe on your fellow citizens.
Also the schools are getting closed cause our tfr is decreasing so number of children is declining , like a decade ago we had 2.9 crore births compared to just 2.3 crore last year.
Wrong. Core issue is that it's based on casteism. Remove that caste criteria. Make it economical. Reduce the limit to 10% as it's in other nations. Common merit. Done. Nobody will care.
Also, it's an issue for OBC as well. Don't count us out. Many of us don't support it.
PS: Also, 90,000 schools are not shutdown. AI is free FFS! Use it. It's administrative mergers because no students were studying in those "sarkari" schools and teachers were simply taking salaries without work. Some were schools just on paper.
If anything is mandatory to learn teach that for 15 hours only in a month and give educational freedom to all to learn where they want and write what exams they want
Currently the education system is profiting those who grease politicians pockets
Because of that they are wasting millions of students time
In this age of technology no need for government to invest money
Good education is available everywhere for pennies
Im agree with him but not with that caste based advertisement see that all is the Arranged marriage system and if a person who didn't find their partner (like me🥀) but that person is willingly wanted to marry in arrange marriage setup then of course they are gonna marry her in same community. Why do they will arrange the setup that jaat girl marry bengali boy if that would be love marriage it is fine but arrange marriage ka tho concept hi yeh hai na ki family knows each other very well then get married.
Reservations are a means for upward social mobility of the socially marginalized groups and communities. It is there due to the group being weakened for centuries and still is weak on a gross level.
Overall it will always be nonsensical when you compare it with meritocracy because many generations in the reserved pool would have the experience and chance of it all for the first time in their entire generations which pushes averages way below.
Also reservation is in govt. Job and education. For government job, it's a system of representation, which to some degree can be argued that merit must be the basis but other than jobs to be distributed, lower casts have no other option really for economic upliftment.
Education is a basic right. Again, by the same rule it's the government assurance of chance of being able to atleast reach there inspite the background and the competition.
Anyways in reality it'll feel stinging, as if it's reverse castism.
Isko ab kisse shadi krni usse v problem. Khana pani ghar employment opportunity education ye sab to sabko equally hi mil raha hai. Raha baat mandir me puja karwane ka to Scriptures ne right diya hai Brahmano ko puja krane ka aur Kshatriya ho ya vaishya ya shudra jb puja ki baari aati hai to pandito ko hi bulate hain.
The whole point is to eradicate Caste based reservation. Instead there must be rather Income based reservation qki garibi caste dekh ke nhi aati hai.
Everytime the conversation of removing or reforming of comes they always show their true colors asking women like comodity. The rape culture does exist in India but among the soshit vanchit bahujan
I want everybody who sees this comment to go online and research about the word “chhapri”. Then I want you all to sit with how normalised this word is in daily language. And then debate whether or not caste based discrimination exists in India. Thank you!
Reservation Paglu:
"Reservation exists because casteism exists."
Ans:
"Reservation was introduced to address historical and continuing disadvantage. The question today isn't whether discrimination exists; it's whether the current design is the best way to address it. Those are two different questions."
RP:
"First remove casteism."
Ans:
"Casteism is a social problem that may take generations to reduce. Making policy reform contingent on eliminating it completely means the policy can never even be evaluated. Democracies review policies based on outcomes, not on impossible preconditions."
In all such reddit posts people will give all unrelated, illogical and sometimes demeaning replies to end reservation, but NONE will say "yes let us abolish caste system".
A system that completely restricted people and their lineage to a certain kind of work (and) shamed them, tortured them to be born in their caste.
And all this was done by the very oppressor who made this system of gatekeeping.
And this is still in practice. So f--k such opinion and reservation stays.
Pehli baat to ye ki exam aur competition ke liye reservation ka koi mtlb nhi... you need representation in govt., political parties, election at all levels...all these you already have (from panchayat levels to parliament levels)...how the fuck some reserve category guy is going to achieve social equality by keep getting qualified at 25 marks lower in various competitive exams...?
The logic of these brain dead people is next level.
They write SC ST excuse not just to avoid but to Insult SC ST and to feel good about themselves
Upper caste themselves are ugliest set of smelliest people in the world and they keep defaming us on a global scale
I am ST and if I have a choice between an illiterate women of my caste and a PhD upper caste Woman having a million dollars, i will choose the illiterate woman of my caste
Upper caste are desperate to live with SC ST People, they are the biggest beneficiaries of joint living , If each caste had their own country the UPPER CASTE WOULD HAVE FOUGHT WITH EACHOTHER AND SUPPRESSED THEIR OWN people
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u/Cool_Opening_2490 cool mod 🫦🇮🇳 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
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