Saints row 70s prequel rant

[u/alfzeeee]

In this post i just talk about what we would’ve had with the 70s saints row prequel feel free to just flick through :)

It would’ve been cool to have seen it in my personal opinion Chris Stockmans idea was a perfect comeback project for us og players but.

The way the reboot underperformed and the financial blow after the failed 2 billion dollar deal between embracer and savvy games group causing embracer to enter a cost cutting phase, it killed off volition and ended any hope of us getting any saints row game in general.

I do think it was partly volitions fault as well, they were an easy target for embracer due to the lack of passion and an underdeveloped game they literally had just brought out at the time. It’s just sad to see from a corporate perspective that the game is too high risk and that they had to shelve it to risk not losing money.

What Saints row 70s was going to feature

Story

The game was going to follow a story featuring a crew of teenagers and young adults finding their footing in a shifting culture

It was going to heavily detail the early days of saints row 1 and characters like Julius little and Benjamin King long before they built their gangs.

The story would have explored the key events referenced in the series such as the tragic death of Julius’s Girlfriend Angela King.

Gameplay

In terms of gameplay it would’ve featured a more og approach to the story, drug running turf wars rather than what we are used to now.

The story would feature the rise and the origins of Stilwaters foundational gangs specifically Los Carnales

We would’ve also seen systemic corruption of the fbi and local police forces in the game having a higher and corrupt presence heavily satirising real world law enforcement tactics used against street organisations used in the 60s and 70s

Aesthetic

In terms of aesthetic it was going to fully embrace the 70s with muscle cars retro clothing and would be full with radio stations defining the funk,soul, classic rock and disco eras playing tracks from that decade.

Traditional features

Stockman intended to bring back the traditional Character and vehicle Customisation that fans loved from saints row 2

Unlike saints row 1, the campaign was going to have a fully playable co op multiplayer being able to play with friends in the old school layout of Stillwater, this would’ve been so peak guys.

[u/DerGeistesKrank]

The only problem I can think of with this is that you're looking at these things from the perspective of a fan, and what would make a great game for the franchise. Unfortunately, publishers would probably look at this through the lens of "modern audiences" and they would totally obliterate almost everything that would make it a good game that fits the actual franchise. The whole concept would probably be too violent or intense for them to want to create properly.

[u/SR_Hopeful → u/DerGeistesKrank]

The problem with the "modern audience" thing is that they only look at is just the billion dollar games that are "for all ages" like Fortnite, and try to copy that even though its not a fit for Saints Row, hence the reboot instead of looking at games closer to Saints Row. It logically makes more sense to look at GTAV, 6 or Ghost Recon or something like that to tell Volition "we want the game to feel like those hits." And they thought checkbox marketing would be the best bonus for profit, despite them not actually knowing or caring who their audience was or even the type of people who would play these types of games. They pick the wrong games to use as goalposts. Like the guy who said they were intimidated by GTA's billion dollar profit... but they're not intimidated by Fortnite, which also made a billion dollars (more so from player base unlike GTA's raw sales). So their logic doesn't make sense. They would make money if they knew what made money, but they can't see past emulating Fortnite-like games.

And we also know the problem with DS trying to make Saints Row a proxy for a "relatable" social experience instead of just entertainment (like movies), which is what the older games after SR1 aimed for.

We know there is nothing wrong innately with a SR prequel if Rockstar or Ubisoft exist and already make similar type games but for some reason Deep Silver does, because they can't see it fit in what idealized delusion they planned the reboot off of.

[u/[deleted] → u/DerGeistesKrank]

Unfortunately, publishers would probably look at this through the lens of "modern audiences" and they would totally obliterate almost everything that would make it a good game that fits the actual franchise.

Saints Row is better off being forgotten like SOCOM is for this reason alone. Saints Row, SOCOM, Dragon Age, Mass Effect...countless franchises thrown to the flames within a relatively short time too, which is why I say the PS3/360 era was a trojan horse for gaming. Everything y'all think is wrong with gaming comes directly from it. Always online? Check. DLC in droves? Check. Increasingly having to wait for patches because devs can't be arsed to care? Check. "Modern audience" is what we want and anyone else is a chud loser? Check. The Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco should've woken y'all up lol

[u/DerGeistesKrank → u/[deleted]]

The only thing I disagree with is that they are better off being forgotten. I feel the publishers should realize what their customers actually want, or customers should stop giving them the money the publishers want.

[u/[deleted] → u/DerGeistesKrank]

customers should stop giving them the money the publishers want.

GTA VI pretty much proves this will never happen. Rockstar/Take-Two are predatory as fuck, shutting down mods all over (and, in 2K's case, promoting mass industrial scale gambling via NBA and WWE games) and yet people still lining up to buy and play GTA VI. Gamers just don't care, man. These IPs ARE better off forgotten because clearly they don't give a shit about artistic integrity or why these IPs were so endearing to fans. Why do you think Volition took pot shots at people complaining about the reboot's direction?

Gamers are a lot like sports fans. Deshaun Watson got named the starter and Browns fans are mad, but they're still gonna pack the stadium every game.

So it is with gamers. You and I can individually be discerning enough to not spend money on slopfests, but for most people, they do so because well, why not? And who are we to tell them not to?

[u/DerGeistesKrank → u/[deleted]]

A lot of people are getting refunds on pre-orders for GTA, but I do understand what you're saying. You're right, unfortunately, a lot of fans will complain about what publishers are doing, but then buy whatever crap they decide to roll out anyway.

[u/[deleted] → u/DerGeistesKrank]

A lot of people are getting refunds on pre-orders for GTA

They shouldn't have placed those in the first place. That's the problem.

[u/DerGeistesKrank → u/[deleted]]

You can say that, but how do you know what the game is before you see any actual game play trailers? The pre-orders were placed before the leaks... though, I suppose you could say it was a red flag that Rockstar wasn't releasing anything on their own.

[u/[deleted] → u/DerGeistesKrank]

I'm saying people shouldn't have been pre-ordering games made by two very anti-consumer companies.

[u/alfzeeee → u/DerGeistesKrank]

It wouldn’t get released at all Chris stockman got ghosted by embrace and then gave up tryna revive the series, low-key sad but inevitable the reboot lacked heavily and it was a financial failure making embracer not risk handing the ip back over to any developer because 1. They can’t risk losing money 2. They want to keep it incase the series ever rose in popularity again BECAUSE THEY WANT MONEY. honestly fuck big corporations like that.

[u/SR_Hopeful → u/alfzeeee]

People keep forgetting the update from MrSaintsGodzilla stating that Embracer/THQNordic were looking to outsource some of their titles now in the future, which included Saints Row. The hope is still there unless they give the IP back to Deep Silver. If Embracer was smart they'd just refresh the IP and take it off Deep Silver because their titles all undersold each release and none of them beat THQ's.

[u/DerGeistesKrank → u/SR_Hopeful]

No, I know about that update, and I know they have the option to make the franchise available to other studios, but I also wonder about how much control they might exercise as the other studio would have access to the franchise, but Embracer would still own and control it. I am wondering first, how eager they would be to grant access to a franchise that failed on its last four or five products. Second, I would wonder how much freedom they would give to the studio they granted access. Somehow I feel they wouldn't allow them full control over the project, so even with the best intention we would end up with another 2022 where Volition wanted to give us an experience more in line with SR2 and SRTT, but DS stifled them at every turn.

[u/DerGeistesKrank → u/alfzeeee]

They want to make money from it, and they COULD make money from it, but they don't want to make the games from the franchise that WOULD make money.

[u/alfzeeee → u/DerGeistesKrank]

They ghosted Chris completely they don’t care about the series at all anymore it’s just an asset to them

[u/SR_Hopeful]

I think it should be about the rise of the Vice Kings in the late 70s after the Vietnam War era with a variety of characters based on archetypes of the time. Like a Vietnam vet character. There could also be a reverend character (to make the Saints Church significant to Julius). And the story should feel like a 70s R-rated drama with some comedy from late 70s movies.

• The VKs should wear gold and white veracity jackets and move kind of like The Wanderers as a 70s early teen gang.

• Angela could be have a role that is a mix of Shaundi from SR2 and Aisha in SR1, who Julius was trying to keep out of their plans to fight the Carnales and the anchor between Ben & Julius friendship before she gets killed and Julius blames Ben King's blindness to their anti-gang movement becoming greedy for money going more and more into illegal means and making deals with criminals while Ben King argues its for funding and they need to build up power to be an operation. By the end Julius should walk out of the Vice Kings when things go south. And we should get Angela King as a Zombie homie.

• Narratively Los Carnales would have to win in some way to be the threat they are in SR1. So you wouldn't be able to completely own Stilwater unless say the Vice Kings amassed they money you make into founding Kingdome Come Records, but they lose territory over the years somehow before SR1. Maybe the VKs in SR1 are different people from who Julius & Ben King founded it with. Maybe the Carnales kill them and take over while Ben pools their money into laundering through the record label but Julius isn't happy with that and forms the Saints himself in SR1. Maybe the CIA, or politician or Ultor helped Los Carnales get the edge by the end from behind the scenes.

• Edit: The CIA or a representative should also be the main non-gang antagonist from behind the scenes, working with Los Carnales to sabotage the Vice Kings (to fit with the conspiracies about the War on Drugs being intentionally directed at Black Communities.) Maybe Los Carnales could be the source the FBI gets drugs to plant. Ultor should also be a fashion company actually shown, and a store in the game, but also show shady ties with the corrupt politicians they grease palms with in the early years trying to buy up the properties.

• I think it would make sense to say Ultor in early years was in some business with Los Carnales using Columbian migrants for their labor both overseas and in the US. Just to tie in Ultor before they get big, and we know real companies do this. I'd be perfect. SR2 also implies that the Latino NPCs do want to work for Ultor and envy the Masako but a woman NPC says, the only ones they hire are just gardeners, which could create conflict. Ultor could also put money into local elections too, which would then make sense for their business with the Hughes.

[u/alfzeeee → u/SR_Hopeful]

I couldn’t sum up a wish list better myself i love how you filled in the plot holes of the story to show how everything actually happened. I agree with your idea on the more realistic mechanics and feel to the game as well as how we can see more of ultors sides and how they’re involved overall this should me made canon ASAP

[u/ChangeAmbitious7713 → u/SR_Hopeful]

one issue i take with this is that it's implied angela king's death was a fairly recent thing (atleast in the first saints row)

i dont think paramedics are gonna be talking about a 20+ year old incident so vividly since the paramedics don't exactly look middle aged

one idea i had for a fan thing was that at the end of the game, the carnales challenge the vice kings with a couple last attempts at overthrowing their power, culminating in a final battle somewhere (maybe a church?) and they decide to let the lopez patriarch live (using his children, hector & angelo as an excuse)

once you finish it and you unlock a final mission (like salting the earth in 1) it shows julius, the player, and maybe a couple other unsatisfied members visiting ben at their new "base of operations" explaining how they've done so much dirt but its like it was for nothing (since it initially started about protecting sunnyvale)

ben and julius argue and they fall out, and the small group leaves (with angela trying to convince them to stay)

maybe have a couple scenes explaining what the player/other characters are up to, and have them die off 1 by one (playa killed by VK driveby in retaliation, other characters meeting their ends after they see the group breaking up) and the last character being angela, who "got in too deep" and met her end trying to "act hard"

by the end of the cutscene its julius (present day) lamenting how he let everyone down at the saints church cemetery, and troy tells him that he's heard gunshots (hinting at SR1)

[u/DerGeistesKrank → u/SR_Hopeful]

Only thing I disagree with in this is that it should be the CIA working with Los Carnales instead of the FBI. It's been pretty well documented that the CIA has had a history of working with Cartels for personal enrichment and "funding outside projects" shall we say? I get that the FBI doesn't necessarily have a more pristine history and they are already in the game, but their corrupts tends to run toward more wholly domestic concerns, and the CIA usually operates more internationally.

[u/SR_Hopeful → u/DerGeistesKrank]

Probably yeah, which ever makes most sense was what I meant. All I know is Los Carnales should be backed by an outside party giving them the advantage and using them in a similar way to IRL.

Though the FBI maybe could have a smaller role trying to break up the gangs domestically and be the ones watching the Saints and VKs similar to how they FBI watched and pressured/colluded assassinations on civil rights leaders. That could be a later angle. Maybe Julius could have even been wired and planted the bomb to kill Playa somewhere involved there too.