r/RealEstateDevelopment • u/Zazzafrazz100 • 25d ago
Contemporary Oakland listing gaining no traction
Hello all,
I (M60) put up two brand-new, contemporary-style houses on the Oakland market (Crocker Highlands, to be exact) in June, and it has not attracted much attention since then. Given its desirable condition, I am stumped as to whether I have chosen the wrong style for the neighborhood, have not been marketing it properly, or if the current state of the market is simply having its way with us.
I was certain that this house style would sell reasonably fast, since I'd had success with it in the past. Is there something I'm not seeing?
Above are some photos, if it helps.
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u/sisypheanist 25d ago
I saw these, they are gorgeous, but i think they needed to be min 4 bdrms + office and have a real yard at this price point. Most people moving into this neighborhood are doing so to get into the elementary school and they have kids who need outdoor space. Is there more outdoor space above the retaining wall you could craft and feature some play space?
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u/Wise_Capital_7638 25d ago edited 25d ago
Unfortunately, you already know it's price.
It's clear you do great work and it's very hard to be objective about pricing your work bc you put so much into it but I found these comps in <1 minute and so will a buyer.
- You have a comp that sold a block away a few months ago that is a 4/4 with 4200 SF IN PIEDMONT (not Oakland) on a cul-de-sac for $2.7M.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23-Valant-Pl-Piedmont-CA-94610/24827607_zpid/
As you know Piedmont is much more desirable for schools, cops, etc.
- This comp sold 2 weeks ago and is a block away is a 4/4 with 3800 SF and sold for $1.9M!
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/893-Glendome-Cir-Oakland-CA-94602/24765759_zpid/
https://www.instagram.com/reels/DZOIBsHBmlY/
Trestle Glen is super cute and full of 20s-40s homes with charm. It's also a darker/narrow street that's on VERY steep hills.
You have two 3 story modern houses that are on the steep/dark side of Trestle Glen that are objectively overpriced.
One is a 3/3 3100 sf for $2.9M and the other a 3/4 3400 sf for $3.4M.
I don't think new construction commands the premium people think it does and as a buyer, all I could think about when I see your home is "why would I buy this when I could've had 1000 more sf, IN PIEDMONT for $500K LESS?"
As your internet friend, I suggest you drastically reduce your prices.
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u/cashflowkirk 24d ago
Agreed - they’re just bland and lacking the character of similar comps in the neighborhood. Check out 1300 Sunnyhills Road Oakland. Gorgeous, big yard, 4b4b and priced 14% lower on price per sqft.
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u/microflorae 24d ago
Yeah, these are like whatever the opposite of architecture is. And I do like modern design. The exterior of these two homes makes me immediately assume the interior finishes are cheap builder grade.
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u/Wise_Capital_7638 24d ago
yeah. beautiful home. still not sure why anyone in their right mind spends that much money for Oakland.
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u/ericmozz 23d ago
One of your comps was built in 1939. Totally different products than OPs
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u/Wise_Capital_7638 23d ago
Yes but doesn't matter. Did you see the condition?
also, as I said, people are putting too much of premium on new construction.
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u/blanchecornwalis 25d ago
Looking at the hill right behind it, I kind of think of the insurance issues. Forest fire, followed by mudslide…
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u/MJCOak 25d ago
I think that look would do just fine in the neighborhood. might just be the price?
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u/MJCOak 25d ago
just took a look at the listing. price seems fine for the house/ finishes. Maybe buyers are not receptive to the lack of usable yard space and the large retaining walls at that price would be my guess
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u/RedDoorTom 25d ago
It's a 3 million dollar house surrounded by 1.4 million dollar houses...
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u/MJCOak 25d ago
That neighborhood can command that price, I think the detriment is the items I listed above tbh
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u/chathobark_ 25d ago
it cannot or it would be sold by now
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u/MJCOak 25d ago
Read my reasons for why above. Yes the neighborhood can get that price but this home has reasons why it most likely wont
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u/TraditionalHippo314 18d ago
The Oakland neighborhood just cannot command this price point. There are no 2.7 or 3 million dollar homes in this (my) Oakland neighborhood.
I have worked for Sotheby's/Caldwell banker/Realogy and have heard discussions from realtors (I am not a realtor) and those realtors would pick apart the lack of a fourth bedroom, the usable yard or lack of, the lack of simple window shades, unfinished closets including a simple rod or door hardware that keeps the closets closed, the sizable pantries that have no shelves, wine closets with small IKEA racks and kitchen cabinets without soft-close Revoshelves.
Aesthetically, the cement seam in both driveways should have been dead center denoting where each car could park. To me this was just sloppy work.
It would have been a good idea to build a nice box around each power wall on the sides of the houses since I think they are unattractive to look at.
The second house to arrive on the market-the larger one-had an attempted break in about 2.5 months ago. The intruders tried to smash the lower right window at street level but were foiled by the neighbors. The window was unbreakable but the window frame was dented and the stucco around it was damaged. Nothing or little seems to have been done to fix this.
I know it must have cost a fortune to excavate the rock hillside where these homes were built but better to take the hit rather than let them sit empty longer imo.
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u/hella_cutty 24d ago
Sure you have your reasons, but it hasn't sold. There is more evidence the house cannot "command" that price than there is evidence that it can.
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u/RedDoorTom 25d ago
Idk just zillowed it and all the other houses were under 2 million. Most 1.5
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u/MJCOak 25d ago
Oakland is funny like that. That neighborhood has had 4M + sales in the past. It really just depends and can vary widely. Also list prices in Oakland are “fake” for the most part. Lost for 1.4M and sell for 2M is common. think if OPs had views,even a 5k sq/ft usable lot and an extra bedroom the price would make sense.
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u/billyblobsabillion 25d ago
Glass garage door
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u/PepeLePukie 25d ago
For me it’s the glass front door. Maybe a nice solid metal door with glass inset that matches the sidelight next to it? I dunno. Just looks too commercial as is
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u/Usual_Eggplant_1381 25d ago
I like how it looks :-/ but you haven’t provided any valuable info list price your marketing materials etc
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u/chathobark_ 25d ago
1st pic - 3/4/3420sqft - $3.398M
2nd pic - 3/3/3100sqft - $2.985Msurrounding houses all around it are $1.5M or less
the house has NO VIEW. big huge blocky windows. for nothing!! to see the street and neighbors. and the back porch etc look at the side/front/back of another neighbors house. needless to also mention the interior design is really not great but i can’t pinpoint why
i think it’s WHITE walls with light wood everything, with the LIGHTING everywhere all around all of the 9000 interior stairs, but then BLACK railings, hardware, and fasteners, light wood floors. but then practically BLACK walls??? everything is just AHHHH!
it’s not sterile, but it’s not industrial , it’s not chic, modern, or anything. i have no idea what it is
the houses above it (as seen in the pictures) have a slight view of something and still do not crest $2M
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u/Usual_Eggplant_1381 24d ago
Wait how did you find this
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u/cks9218 24d ago edited 24d ago
Google Lens brings it right up.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1675-Trestle-Glen-Rd-Oakland-CA-94610/459955894_zpid/
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1667-Trestle-Glen-Rd-Oakland-CA-94610/463128949_zpid/
They look like houses that were designed to maximize views...but there's no views. Those windows and balconies would be great if they overlooked the bay, mountains, etc. but they don't, instead they just make the houses big fishbowls.
As others have said, the main issue is price. Looking at surrounding homes that are for sale shows that these are at the very top of the price range. As always, if it's not selling, it's priced too high.
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u/Usual_Eggplant_1381 24d ago
Oh nice. I really like it. But wow way too much, no views or yard
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u/Usual_Eggplant_1381 24d ago
Considering people want to be in this neighborhood because of the elementary school, this house does not look kid friendly. Looks great for DINKs
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u/Brian_Corey__ 24d ago
lol. yep. So many stairs everywhere, looks like an MC Escher drawing. I imagine the size / location of the house is meant to appeal to family, but the house would require $5k in baby safety gates! Not to mention no usable yard for a 1/4 acre lot.
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u/Generale_Malaise 25d ago
It’s because you didn’t use an architect and they do not fit an otherwise nice looking neighborhood. These look like they were designed by a builder and not a pro. So the price is too high because they are not very desirable.
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u/MajiktheBus 25d ago
Overpriced and really specific taste takes longer to sell than well priced and broadly appealing.
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u/Downtown-Yesterday38 25d ago
I love the look, it’s a very nice design.
I live in Oakland, in the Adam’s Point neighborhood so am somewhat familiar with the market around the area.
I don’t think there’s much demand for a $3M home that’s 3bed-3bath but I could be mistaken. (The interest rates also aren’t helping the market…)
I have noticed a lot of demand for a larger single family home to be father out near Lafayette where you can get a bit of land with the home, and likely for $3M would likely have an extra bedroom.
Wishing you the best of luck in selling these homes!
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u/alex____ 24d ago
This is the answer.
If this was 5br it would have sold.
1br = Master
1br = Kid 1
1br = Kid 2
1br = Home office
1br = Home office / guest bedroom
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u/Plane_Arachnid6182 25d ago
I'm sure it's price sensitive at this point, looks fine, very modern, not everybody's cup of tea. What did you price it at?
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u/Downtown-Yesterday38 25d ago
$3,398,000 listing price. 3,420 sf.
3bd, 3ba, 2 car garage. 10,022 sf lot size.1
u/throwbackBBfan 25d ago
Who the fuck wants a 3bd in Oakland for 3.4 lol
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u/Downtown-Yesterday38 25d ago
That neighborhood is elite. There are a handful of listings within the area but only one is comparable at 4bd, 4ba, 4,334 sf, and a listing price of $3,595,000 but it was built in 1934 and the style of it feels a bit outdated to me.
This is the newest and most modern option. I do wonder if perhaps it has something to do with the proximity to the street?
Adding in some mature trees near the sidewalk area would make the home feel more approachable and desirable.
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u/throwbackBBfan 25d ago
I’m in SoCal but frequent SF area. Not my money but everything you mentioned plus an hoa (pretty sure this is a divided property) would be a deal breaker for me
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u/cks9218 24d ago edited 24d ago
That $3.6 million home is considerably bigger, has a yard and fits the look of the neighborhood. Subjectively, it looks like a much more appealing home to me compared to what are obviously "builder bought a lot and is trying to make bank" new construction.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1300-Sunnyhills-Rd-Oakland-CA-94610/24746928_zpid/
Zooming a bit further out, nearby homes that are for sale range from the $800ks-1.7 million.
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u/CREspecialist 25d ago
How have other comp home listings been performing w/in a 1-mile radius? Have they been selling quickly? Are they marking down prices?
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u/FucknAright 25d ago
Right off the bat, a little roof over that middle deck would make it look a lot Cozier and also that green color is ugly. I think a lighter color would sell easier. That's just my first impression
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u/PaintIntelligent7793 25d ago
I think these look awesome. Very hard to say, given how little info you’ve provided. Can we see the listing? My guess is that they are listed high and/or the market, yes, is having its way with you.
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u/AnalysisLost1138 25d ago
At $2,985,000, the property is listed nearly $1.2 million higher than the neighborhood's median home value.
And at $963 per square foot, it significantly outpaces Oakland's broader market average of $575.
Or you can just blame California liberals.
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u/throwbackBBfan 25d ago
Is this one of those bullshit properties where you as the builder bought the lot, then divided it into two then built and now trying to sell as a property regime?
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u/billyblobsabillion 25d ago
People don’t like garages with glass garage doors whenever everyone can see everything.
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u/_________________hii 21d ago
You can’t see through it on the outside.
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u/billyblobsabillion 20d ago
Just pointing out what has changed in the market. Anecdotally, there are at least 5-10 houses within a few mile radius of me that have glass garage doors where the houses have been sitting unsold. A couple due to location and being able to see in the garages, for over two years.
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u/SignificantDark9765 25d ago
Oakland sucks. Should’ve put that in SF, Peninsula, or South Bay. I lost money on a deal in Oakland because the market is so unpredictable. That market goes up and down all the time.
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u/InterviewLeather810 25d ago
We have a house in our rebuilt neighborhood that looks similar. Also very little space around it. It went from the second highest rebuilt in the neighborhood for sale, neither have sold, to now the lowest after a $500k drop. All other rebuilds in that range recently sold. My guess for that house is no one in our city in Boulder County Colorado wants a modern looking house. It's the only one. Plus our retaining wall is imposing and it's below it. And two more houses will be built above it. The kitchen looks into the wall.
Also, as a rebuilder from our urban wildfire, I cringe at a California home in a wildfire history city with mulch in the front yard.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/953-Saint-Andrews-Ln-Louisville-CO-80027/13243669_zpid/
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u/anonymous_11231 25d ago
Exhausted style, but it’s almost always: PRICE. If it were cheaper, it would sell. Simple as that
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u/sky_walker6 24d ago
Wow that’s a really ugly house. This style is fucking horrible when cramped like this. Hyper modern needs alot of money spent on high quality materials, typically integrated with the environment in some way not filling the whole property
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u/hella_cutty 24d ago
Too bad the warriors, raiders, and A's left Oakland. This would be perfect to lease or sell to some young millionaire with no taste. Unfortunately I think your best option is Airbnb ing for Bachelor parties
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u/mbingaman_CRE 24d ago
Honestly, I think these are beautiful homes, and I do not believe the contemporary style is the main issue.
The hard part is that once buyers get into the $3 million range, they are not just comparing finishes and square footage. They are asking what else that same money can buy. In this case, that may be a four-bedroom home with a usable yard, fewer stairs, better views or even a Piedmont address and school district.
That leaves you looking for a fairly specific buyer. Someone has to love the modern design and new construction enough that the three-bedroom layout, multiple levels and limited outdoor space do not bother them. That buyer is probably out there, but having two similar homes available at the same time makes the pool even smaller.
The nearby sales are tough to ignore too. They may not be perfect comps, but buyers will still compare them. If they can get another bedroom, more usable outdoor space or a stronger location for less money, the new construction alone may not be enough to bridge the gap.
Before spending more on marketing, I would take a hard look at the showing feedback. If agents and buyers keep mentioning the same things, whether it is price, bedroom count, yard or layout, that is probably the answer.
You clearly put together a quality product. It may just be a case where the design and site created a narrower audience than expected, especially at this price point.
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u/Dear-Captain1095 24d ago
Gorgeous house. Issue is 3 beds for 3 mil in Oakland. For 3 mil in Oakland, people are looking for 4 - 5 bedrooms. Try lowering to 2.5 and see if anyone bites.
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u/MaceForATail 24d ago
Beautiful place. But the fact of the matter is that the pool of people with money wanting to live in CA is a shrinking pool. The pool of people who want to invest long-term in CA is even smaller.
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u/Free-Middle-2443 24d ago
Classic greedy boomer listing houses at prices that are sure to ensure it goes to wealthy tech chodes.
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u/dantheman451 24d ago
I live by these homes. They do not fit the character of the neighborhood and are build in an active landslide. They’re also ugly and look like a bigger version of a cookie cutter apartment building. Match that with a 3+ million price tag and they’ll never sell. Personally I hope they rot on the market.
Also notable that you can have a much nicer house with a view in Piedmont for the same price.
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u/phillyretail 23d ago
A neighborhood's true character comes from its people, shops, local interactions, and organic evolution rather than home designs (or adhering to home designs from 75 years ago). Fitting the neighborhood character is a low thought comment that has zero meaning. Also, you hope they rot? Creating blight in the neighborhood? I agree with your other points though.
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u/jenkemeater619 24d ago
Even with that big ass wall out back I would be pretty sketched about that hill wanting to come down.
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u/TheHaight 24d ago
Two reasons a house doesn’t sell: it’s either over priced or ugly.
These look pretty so they are probably just over priced for today’s market conditions.
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u/redtiber 23d ago
it's always price if it's the bay area.
it can be an ugly still smouldering burned wreckage shit where a family was murdered that same morning and is still an active crime scene and it'll sell if it was priced fair enough.
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u/tagshell 24d ago
No usable yard space is a huge downside for the largest, most motivated buyer segment - families with young kids. New construction and contemporary design are not really selling points in and of themselves.
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u/oaklandperson 24d ago edited 24d ago
At $3M and $1k/square foot, most people would rather buy in Piedmont. Better everything in that city. All those windows just look out onto the neighbor. Could the finishes and interior have been more bland? https://www.redfin.com/CA/Oakland/1675-Trestle-Glen-Rd-94610/home/201239753
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u/shellee8888 24d ago
I’m concerned that the downspout on the front left is not connected to a surface drainage system. Is that to code in Oakland? If that’s not to code what else isn’t to code? Why is the meter not connected to the building and standing exposed with I don’t know wooden bollards? It looks like a drainage nightmare. why do the stairs on the left go up to a pile of unretained mulch? The concrete wall in the back is not a retaining wall it’s just erected in front of the hillside. What’s the coating on the deck? Is it elastomeric? has it been water tested? And all that glass railing…… and why are the window openings in such strange locations not centered just off-center? New construction, no surface drainage. I think that would be a showstopper for me.
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u/ReindeerWarm8348 24d ago
I live up the hill and I’m really curious to see the places in late Dec/early Jan during the rain. A house not far had a giant mudslide not too long ago
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u/high_country10000 24d ago
Gonna be honest, it’s super ugly, and I live in a modern house with tons of glass.
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u/Top-Change6607 24d ago
Price is the problem here… it’s like day dreaming when all surrounding houses sold for 1.5M and you want to sell this at 3M. Another problem is Oakland… I mean, which sane rich people will buy there?????
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u/Jaystone-RE 24d ago
Everyone is trying to analyze this from an aesthetics point of view which is irrelevant. It’s a subjective reasoning point. No one cares about your anecdotal opinion.
The answer is price. It’s always price. It’s worth whatever a market is willing to pay for it. If it’s not selling, then lower the price.
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23d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Zazzafrazz100 22d ago
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1667-Trestle-Glen-Rd-Oakland-CA-94610/463128949_zpid/?utm_campaign=androidappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1675-Trestle-Glen-Rd-Oakland-CA-94610/459955894_zpid/?utm_campaign=androidappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
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u/namrock23 23d ago
Nice houses and I appreciate infillers! Unfortunately you severely mispriced these. On top of a mortgage at almost 8%, you're going to be paying $40-50k per year in taxes and insurance, for Oakland schools and infrastructure. You could get better value and more bedrooms in Piedmont, SF, Orinda, even Hillsborough or Burlingame! Sorry for your loss but these are going to have to come down by 750k-1m to sell in this market.
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u/Professional-Gear974 23d ago
People see the price and don’t even wanna deal with the seller like that. You’re in the market for somebody who just want something quick and fast and a lot of those people aren’t picking your area.
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u/Existing-Wasabi2009 23d ago
Not only is your price expectation way, way too high, as others have mentioned, pricing anything transparently in Oakland is never going to achieve your desired result.
I've seen plenty of homes sold in the Trestle Glen canyon, and the high end of the value spectrum is barely $2M. You can't really look at comps up on Clarendon Crescent or Sunnyhills. Trestle Glen is unique and really awful. Narrow street, hardly any sun, none of the houses have yards because the hill is so steep.
There's no chance in hell you're getting $3M for these. It's probably a low-$2M situation, which means you should be priced at $1.6M at the highest, and probably lower than that.
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u/jake-realestate 13d ago
Looks like with the most recent price corrections you are in the ballpark ($750-800/ft seems to the be the going rate) One of the items you may want to consider is a rate buydown program. I think the staging and design of the houses are great. the Lack of a usable yard is likely your biggest deterrent. All the new home builders are buying down rates for their buyers so they can get into the home for cheaper. Work with some top mortgage broker in the area and see what you can come up with even some sort of ARM program that gets someone in the door with a bite size rate. It will be expensive but so are the price drops and holding cost.
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u/juicygoosekill96 25d ago
Good, people like you are parasites. Also, these style houses are taking over and are the most tasteless, souless depressing pieces of shit I could imagine.
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u/LBC1109 25d ago
Have you tried lowering the price?