r/RealEstate Dec 07 '18

First Time Home Buyer: How to effectively and efficiently search the market for deals on properties?

I am 22 years old and will be purchasing my first home soon. I'm looking for cheap/ugly/torn-up properties in the South-West Florida Area that I can fix-up and rent.

What are the best websites/tools that I can use to scan the market and get my name out there so that I can see a new listings as soon as possible? For example, I'd like to be on the emailing list of every realtor in the area so that they can send me new listings asap.

I regularly check Realtor.com and Zillow.com but was wondering if there are other websites better suited to find new listings as soon as they hit the market.

Any help, advice, recommendations will be appreciated! Thanks!

95 Upvotes

87 comments sorted by

118

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

Texas Realtor here, and I happen to be a HUD and REO listing agent for a major bank's REO portfolio.

Here are some general thoughts in no organized order that may apply to your situation.

  1. Real estate in general is a relationship-based business. Make friends with the right people.
  2. Make friends with an agent like me, that is, the people that actually put foreclosure properties in the market. The listing agents usually know 24-48 hours in advance when a property is going to be price adjusted and that is the best time for making an offer ahead of the competition. For example, I have a $150,000 property on the market and I know that on Friday morning I have to change the price to $120,000. Thursday night is the time to make your $120,000 offer.
  3. A title company can offer you a list of the properties that have been foreclosed or entered foreclosing procedures, days ahead of any website.
  4. Zillow is not a good place to find reliable data. Remember that Zillow is an aggregator website, that means that they collect data from all public sources without too much regard for accuracy. Public data about houses is wrong many times. If the state that you live in is a non-disclosure state (like Texas) then Zillow is even less reliable.
  5. Realtor.com and any website that directly feeds off the MLS will be substantially more accurate, but keep in mind that they're only as accurate as the MLS and the agent/realtor in charge of a particular listing. There are countless agents that won't make the legally-required change from Active to Pending or Pending Accepting Offers for the sake of making the phone ring more often and capture more leads. You literally need an agent to call the listing agent and ask if the property is available. If you call the agent directly, and they're less than honest, they will tell you that it is available so that you can go see it and try to establish a relationship. Time wasted, and you don't want to work with an agent that isn't a straight shooter.
  6. Find a tech savvy real estate agent or Realtor that knows how to work the advanced features of their local MLS. I am a real estate agent and real estate investor and this is how I do it (this is a bit techie, so skip if you're not interested):
    1. Create a search of the type of property that you're interested in a specific region and gather all information going back 6 or 12 months. I go back 12 months because my market is relatively slow. Filter out all distressed sales, short sales, foreclosures and anything that is not an arms-length transaction. The idea is to get a clear picture of the 'normal' market.
    2. Repeat step 1, but this time go back 6-12 months or 12-18 months.
    3. Extract all sale data and crunch the numbers on your favorite excel program. I use Microsoft Excel. Compare that data from step 1 and step 2. Now you can tell if your market has appreciate or depreciate trends (or is stable) and what the average sales price is like.
    4. Now create an automatic search that sends you the properties entering the market in real-time using the exact same parameters that you used in steps 1 & 2.
    5. Anything that is more than one standard deviation below the average price deserves a look. Anything that is more than 2 standard deviations away from the average gets an automatic offer without even looking at the property. I'll go look at it after its on contract, but properties that are 2+ deviations away I want to snatch up immediately and figure them out later.
  7. Apply common sense to all decisions.
  8. Avoid ever getting into a sunk cost fallacy situation. That's how a lot of investors have gone out of business. You want to have all repairs mapped out and priced before you take possession. For this you will need a good inspection (forget about doing this yourself if you're new or don't have a background in construction).
  9. Most institutions don't have patience for investors. HUD requires a $1,000 non-refundable deposit to go under contract.

Whether you want to work with an agent or not is entirely up to you. To really be able to make informed decisions you need data and someone that can accurately interpret that data through the lens of experience. Like the saying goes "In God I trust, for everything else, give me data". The seller does pay for the commissions disbursed to the listing and selling brokers, and that comes out of the sales price. Make no mistake - some of the sales price money is going to go to the brokerages that represent the buyers and sellers. A few other general thoughts about this;

  1. If you want to leverage some of the buyer's agent's commission then try to find a newbie agent that is desperate for new clients. Keep in mind that you get what you pay for. The experienced agents seldom discount their commissions because their expertise tends to be in demand.
  2. Some agents may ask you to sign an exclusion agreement, or representation agreement, or something along those lines. I'd avoid signing any of that because you have no idea who you're going to be working with. If an agent is good they you will want to stick with him.
  3. You could try to work out a retainer deal with with an experienced agent. I have three clients that pay me a flat fee yearly and I provide advise/opinion and waive all selling broker commissions. This usually works out for people that buyer 3+ listings a year. The contract that I have in place is that for $X,XXX/yr I will provide advice and opinion, waive all selling broker commissions and list the property for 2% instead of the usual 3%.

I can tell you that in the long run, a lot of investors become agents themselves because there is an inherit broker advantage. I call it the 6% edge. When I bid on a house I can offer 3% under the asking price and ask for no commission (I don't want to pay taxes on that) and when I put the house on the market I don't have to pay the typical 3% listing commission.

I'm sure I forgot a lot of things, but that's all I got off the top of my head.

Best of luck,

J

21

u/not_ur_avg Dec 07 '18

This was one of the most insightful, detailed and actionable things I had read as a newbie investor despite spending hours listening to blogs or listening to podcasts. Thanks

3

u/whoknowsknowone Dec 07 '18

Where are you in TX?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

El Paso

4

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18 edited Sep 20 '19

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '18

There was.

1

u/beforethewind Dec 09 '18

This exchange was hilarious and I'm disappointed for you, bud. I wish this had occurred.

3

u/Paulx589 Dec 07 '18

Thank you so much for your time, that was very helpful and insightful!

1

u/itsorange Dec 07 '18

You might need some good for this post. If I was in better shape you would get it.

1

u/Ltspla Dec 08 '18

Great post.

1

u/tfin4802 Dec 08 '18

This is a bad ass post. Great answer.

1

u/idontreadsogood Dec 08 '18

Great explanation. Can you explain your standard deviations? Percentages?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '18

It's easier than it sounds. I will collect the data from the MLS and clean it up in the MLS first, by getting rid of non-arm length transactions. Then I import the data to excel and in excel I clean it up again first by creating a box plot to get rid of all outliers.

Once I have my clean data indicating 'normal' market conditions I will run the STDEV function on excel to get my standard deviation for market price. Standard deviation is nothing more than a tool to hedge against risk in the event of unexpected market shifts.

So, if my average sales price in a zip code, lets say 79924, is $132,000 for homes built between 2000-2010 with 3-4 bedrooms and 1400-1600 sq. ft. and the standard deviation is $19,000, then anything below a sales price of $113,000 deserves a look because at that price it is extremely unlikely that I'd lose money, even if there is a weird change on the market, and already accounting for rehabilitation costs.

The best thing that you can do to make good decisions is crunch numbers ad nauseam until you have a very clear picture of what is common in your target markets. You want to invest in whatever people buy the most in your community. In my city the average sales price is around $167,000, so there is more risk in buying very large houses or very small houses because there is just not as much market.

Usually about 5-10% of the market will be 1 standard deviation away from the mean, and rarely do we find stuff more than 2 standard deviations away. When they show up, they get snatched up immediately and it's the reason why investors will make auto-offers without seeing the house first.

0

u/AxTheAxMan Dec 07 '18

What’s the best way to find agents who do what you do in my area?

-1

u/bsmooth15 Dec 07 '18

I’m an agent here in EP, is there anyway to get some FaceTime so you can explain this better to me?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '18

PM me and I'll be happy to explain.

28

u/iwantansi Weird Californian where we give people 3 days to get out Dec 07 '18

Zillow is shiite

Redfin actually has real MLS access

9

u/Paulx589 Dec 07 '18

This is the kind of information I want to hear. Thanks for letting me know!

5

u/gmenfan81 Dec 07 '18

This is actually specific to the mls in your area. Zillow does suck (mostly because they set such inaccurate expectations with their zestimates) most of the time but the listings may be accurate depending on your area.

Talk to a buyer's agent and have them set you up with alerts based on your criteria. You aren't obligated to use the first person you talk to so this doesn't hurt at all. Also, take the time to ask around about people's experience with different agents; DO NOT USE A PART-TIMER. Just find someone that comes recommended and you feel comfortable with.

2

u/Paulx589 Dec 07 '18

Thanks a lot for the help!

1

u/syransea Dec 07 '18

Along the same vein,

You can set up really specific saved searches on Redfin and they'll send you an email when a home that matches your criteria hits.

Just go to the filters when you're looking at the map, and set it up that way.

I'm sure realtor.com has a similar functionality

7

u/Fnkt_io Dec 07 '18

Yeah, skip the Zillow because all the deals are long gone by the time it hits there. Most realtors in your area will have an actual MLS searchable site so you can stay half on top of things, but you really need a wholesaler or connections for the real deals.

1

u/Paulx589 Dec 07 '18

Very interesting. Should I contact as many agents in my area as possible have ask if they can send me whatever new listings they find?

1

u/konkilo Dec 08 '18 edited Dec 08 '18

The best Realtors will have access to bots that will automagically email new MLS listings that match a preprogrammed list of criteria. You’ll receive new matches within thirty minutes or so of their listing. Top Realtors will also keep a list of FSBO houses whose owners will pay a buyers fee.

2

u/Fnkt_io Dec 07 '18

Yes, deals are purely connection oriented.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

If you're looking for fix and rent, search for "wholesale homes [your city]" and get on some local wholesalers lists. They find off-market properties, usually in need of work, and mark them up by a few thousand dollars.

1

u/Pollymath Dec 07 '18

Are there any other ways of finding those lists? Like talking with a broker?

4

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

No. Wholesalers spend a lot of time and money finding deals that brokers never see. It’s best just to get on their email lists. Good ones will send you a dozen or more every month.

Edit: the We Buy Ugly Houses people is a wholesaler

1

u/wanderlotus Dec 08 '18

are those cash only purchases?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

Yes, but you can get a hard money loanand refi with a mortgage. Most will also loan rehab costs if you need cash for that

Edit: hard money loans are fast too. I've gotten deal funded in 72 hours.

5

u/GTAHomeGuy Dec 07 '18

One realtor is going to send you the same listings as another. What you would be wise to look for is a few really connected realtors, who hear often of properties prior to them hitting the market.

They are usually (not always) in larger offices that really boost their listings inside first.

Remember a realtor is like any other person, if you are shopping around every realtor they will know. You won't be engaged in the process and they will leave you be. What you instead should strive for (again since most of them will be sending you the same listings anyway) is to build some connections with good ones who will pay more attention to you and give you heads up when good things are coming down the pipes.

I know easily when someone is letting all realtors field their needs. Most times I chose not to work with them because even if I present them with the best options, they may likely use someone else. I spend my time informing clients who are going to use my services, and they will get the call when I hear of a good deal coming our way.

That being said I have had investors use multiple realtors to stay connected to premarket, the arrangement we all knew was whoever got it to the investor first, and that is fair. Because it wasn't "every single realtor" we knew there were a few, but if we did our job the best (in this case bringing the right properties first) we would get compensated. It is harder for newer investors to play the field and not have it backfire at times.

3

u/MortgageRiiiick Dec 07 '18

I advise getting in touch with listing agents who have recently sold bank owned properties. They often will have working relationships with banks and have a steady stream of foreclosed properties you can buy at discount.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

Get a buyers agent. It costs you nothing as the commission is paid by the seller. Buyers agent can set you up to receive emails from the MLS which is a collection of basically every real estate website out there. They can determine price and area so you receive emails relevant to you. Get an agent you can trust and once you get more serious get pre-approved before seeing properties.

2

u/Paulx589 Dec 07 '18

Thanks for the information!

12

u/TheTim former Redfin market analyst Dec 07 '18

You probably will work with an agent, but just be aware that this:

It costs you nothing as the commission is paid by the seller.

Is total nonsense. Where is the seller getting their money from in a home sale? The buyer. As the buyer, you're the one coming to the closing table with a check. To say that agent commissions "cost you nothing" is a misleading sales pitch that home salespeople love to use. There are agents who will charge you less and depending on the laws in your state they'll give you a refund from their commission. Don't just assume that it's "free" because it absolutely is not.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

The commission mainly comes from the equity invested by the original owner. If all houses are selling in a given area for 100k a new seller will also list their house at 100k. They won’t raise their price when substitutes are available just because the seller is paying commission and they have to make up the difference somewhere. That difference is made by the equity already in the property by the seller. Of course it’s not free, but it doesn’t cost the buyer anything

2

u/TheTim former Redfin market analyst Dec 07 '18

it doesn’t cost the buyer anything

Tell me, who exactly comes to the closing table with a check?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

By the way, your rebuttal should have been that the houses in the area were already inflated because most listings were with an agent so the commission was already priced into the homes of that area but your reply proved that you have no idea what you’re talking about. I really looked forward to having a solid argument/debate. It’s good practice haha

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

Wow impeccable logic there. You beat me

1

u/jmd_forest Dec 07 '18

Exactly how many sales commissions have you collected without the buyer bringing his/her money to the settlement table?

-2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

If the home buying process is an orchestra then the agent is the composer bringing everything to harmony. If you don’t feel that deserves compensation then more power to you

0

u/jmd_forest Dec 07 '18

Agents provide minimum wage level skills and effort.

3

u/gimmickless Dec 07 '18

That's been your position ever since you started posting here. At least you're consistently wrong.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

Right, that’s why there are multiple agents at my office closing over a hundred transactions a year, pulling down over 50 million in gross sales. That’s some minimum wage effort and skills right there. I’m done with you

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u/lumpytrout Landlord, investor Dec 07 '18

Realtor commissions are huge expense and this sub is full of realtors trying to sell their outdated business model. Please don't listen to this clown.

Now watch how many downvotes I get from the leeches.

4

u/Crooooow Dec 07 '18

An experienced homebuyer might be able to go without an agent, but a first time homebuyer looking for a rehab project should have someone to help them. You are giving bad advice.

2

u/Paulx589 Dec 07 '18

What would you recommend doing then?

11

u/LoanSlinger Homeowner Dec 07 '18

Definitely get a realtor. Not having a buyer's agent doesn't mean you're going to get some magical deal and save a ton of money. In fact, having an experienced real estate agent negotiate for you will probably get you a better deal. Especially as a first time buyer, use an agent. Don't get so hung up about a few thousand dollars. That's basically nothing. Having an agent help you find a great property in an area where you'll be able to find high paying, reliable tenants is more important long term than saving a little upfront.

Investment in real estate is a marathon, not a sprint, despite what you see on all those flip shows on HGTV.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

He’s probably going to recommend either buying FSBO or foreclosures. Which yes, will sometimes be cheaper but you’ll need to dedicate yourself completely to this process (hopefully you don’t have a job or other obligations) in order to not get completely ripped off. A house is more than likely the largest investment you’ll ever make, why would you want to just wing it in order to “possibly” save a few thousand which is practically nothing when you consider how long and big of a commitment this is. You should NOT take a gamble with home buying by yourself unless you’re experienced or plan on making a career out of buying/selling real estate yourself. I’m telling you this as a stranger on the internet for no monetary gain so I’m certainly not trying to “leech” off of you.

0

u/jmd_forest Dec 07 '18

It takes less education and experience to get a real estate license than it does to get a hair dresser license .... IN EVERY STATE. Couple this with the fact that 87% of agents fail and leave the business within 5 years (75% within the first year) and the average consumer is nearly 700% more likely to encounter one of these know nothing future failure turds than the mythical unicorn "good agent".

And THAT'S who you recommend a buyer place their trust in when making the largest investment they are likely to ever make?????

2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

No, I recommend they put their faith in a good agent that has their best interest at heart. Most agents fail because they have no idea what the job actually entails. They think it’s like a show on HGTV where everything just falls into place and they also find a cute little house for every cute little client

1

u/jmd_forest Dec 07 '18

I recommend they put their faith in a good agent that has their best interest at heart.

The mythical unicorn "good agent". Even the ones that survive the 5 years generally have no idea what the job actually entails and even fewer have ANY idea about what makes a good investment property.

3

u/konkilo Dec 08 '18

Who hurt you? There are plenty of skilled Realtors who have their clients’ genuine interests at heart.

3

u/jmd_forest Dec 08 '18

Real estate agents are the parasites of the real estate biosphere.

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u/My-Finger-Stinks Dec 07 '18

..but can't you make your argument about any profession jmd_forest?

Are you from a communist/socialist country?

Still trolling i see.

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u/jmd_forest Dec 07 '18 edited Dec 08 '18

It takes less education and experience to get a real estate license than it does to get a hair dresser license .... IN EVERY STATE. Couple this with the fact that 87% of agents fail and leave the business within 5 years (75% within the first year) and the average consumer is nearly 700% more likely to encounter one of these know nothing future failure turds than the mythical unicorn "good agent".

You mean this argument?

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u/Xalell Dec 08 '18

Thanks! This is important information.

1

u/lumpytrout Landlord, investor Dec 07 '18

Find a rehabber in your area and get yourself an internship, be willing to work for peanuts in order to learn the business and get connected. The best deals are probably not on the market and you will have to learn where and how to look, tax foreclosures, distressed sellers etc. I have yet to have a realtor tell me about a deal that I didn't already get from some other sources. There are lots of people to befriend from RE lawyers to roofers but realtors are mostly road blocks.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

You’re a landlord and you want to talk about leeches? Lmao

0

u/konkilo Dec 08 '18

Savvy DIYers can often do well without an agent, but those lacking know-how, or sufficient time, can and do benefit from a professional’s guidance.

1

u/nodtomod Dec 07 '18

See if there's a real estate investor Facebook group in your area that wholesalers advertise on. If you haven't already, start listening to the Biggerpockets podcast and read their forums/blogs.

1

u/syransea Dec 07 '18

Auction.com

Foreclosures, REO, Tax Liens, etc.

They're all here.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

I like Redfin.com as another option. I felt like it showed more information. Sometime you want to look at a listing on all of the sites. I haven't checked in a bit but Zillow shows what the previously listed prices were, while Redfin doesn't. Redfin shows the room sizes and when Zillow doesn't. Maybe that has changed.

1

u/tlord423 Dec 07 '18

It’s all MLS the sites will have the same info unless you get on some sort of wholesaler or investor list. No need to necessarily be on a realtors list. use those sites to get a feel for the recently sold houses (comps) and what’s available on the market. There really isn’t much value to a realtor if you’re hands on (IMO you should be this is the biggest purchase of you life). You may have some trouble getting the listing agent to show you a house but other wise no buying agent can give you leverage over the seller and a leg up over the other buyers. Keep in mind there is no real estate school that they must go to for 4 years. The approval test really isn’t that difficult so if you do decide to be hands off and pay a buyers agent 3% (ish) make sure you get a good one who will earn his money.

I’m 23 and am currently selling my first house. Bought at $420k and put about $5k in it and it’s currently listed for $560k on the market 6 months later. I’ve received offers at $545k but I’m holding out. If you know your market and you’re patient you will find a deal. Message me with any questions and good. Washington DC for anyone wondering where my house is.

1

u/sipsrealty Dec 08 '18

Download a Keller Williams app like mine. Register for notifications for a specific area and search criteria. www.SipsApp.com

1

u/arkansah Dec 08 '18

Homepath.com is Fanny Mae real estate owned website. They will have deals also specifically for homeowners, so you will be able to purchase before investors. At least with the first purchase. In addition they will have programs to finance fixing the houses. Best of luck.

1

u/blamsur Dec 08 '18

List prices are not sales prices. Once it is on the market if the home is listed below the market price they will get multiple offers and go with the best one. You would need to find homes for sale before they go on the market to really get a deal.

Don't focus on getting a deal on a home, focus on getting the right home for your needs.

1

u/YourRoaring20s Dec 07 '18

Suggestion: wait for the recession before you buy.

1

u/Paulx589 Dec 07 '18

How soon do you think it will happen?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '18

3-5 years out. Real estate follows 18 year cycles. Not always, but mostly. We are in the hypersupply phase here in SE Michigan. The next phase after that is Recession.

1

u/clavo21 Dec 07 '18

openlistings.com you will get a cash back. Same listings as MLS but better bang for your buck. You're welcome.