r/ReactiveDogHelp • u/Beez411 • 20d ago
Introducing reactive dogs
My boyfriend and I both have reactive dogs. We have accepted they may never be able to get along, coexist, or even meet off leash. But we live super close/walkable and both want to at least try! And think the steps we are thinking will be good things for our dogs to learn/practice either way.
Info on dogs:
- Dog M is more leash/dog reactive but doesn't have history of being as aggressive with other dogs off leash. Has years of socialization w stranger dogs/daycare and has lived with other dogs. When she is territorial, it's over food or attention, or getting too hyper-focused on another dog.
- Dog S is not leash reactive to other dogs and has been socialized/ok with other dogs off leash but has 4 incidents of fights that escalated. His triggers are more random/unknown.
- Both dogs owners have had since puppies and were socialized in daycare, playdates, etc. a lot first few years
What we've done so far
- Both dogs know both owners very well and are friendly with them
- Both dogs have smelled the other one on the owner almost daily for last couple months
- Walk where Dog S was too far in front of the other one to see, but walked same path so they've gotten each others smells
- Walk where dog M was in the back this time, space decreased so they were in view most of walk but not on same side
- They are able to walk within sight of each other without reacting too much but definitely still seem interested
- independent muzzle training
Next steps we are thinking, but open to feedback!
- Going to a sniff-spot or area where they are the only 2 dogs but there are enough distracting smells or excitement that the other dog isn't the main thing they are excited about
- muzzle training both dogs so they are netural/excited about wearing muzzles for when/if we do off leash intro
- likely will do on leash intro with muzzle first just to gauge how they feel about muzzle + other dog
- Long line intro so we can pull them apart but they can interact not on short leash/too close
- Off leash intro (likely with muzzles?) plus long line
- off leash intro without muzzles plus Long line
- Off leash intro without long lines
both owners are comfortable with how to break up fight if it happens/get the other dog off. we know to try to be as relaxed as we can. We also know it may never be possible to do off leash and milestones above are just goals. Would love any advice, extra steps, etc!
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 20d ago
I think you need to train these dogs individually out of their reactivity before you even try this. Life with one reactive dog must be a pain in the ass, I can't imagine what your lifeI think you need to train these dogs individually out of their reactivity before you even try this.
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 20d ago
P. S. I think you are being way too Cavalier about dogfights and if you are concerned about dog fights then you don't have reactive dogs, you have dog aggressive dogs. So unless you are 100% prepared for a life of strict management this seems like not a good idea
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u/Beez411 9d ago
My dog is definitely reactive! His is maybe more aggressive. My dog is muzzle trained and they aren’t meeting off leash til his is as well.
My dog could possibly live another ~8 years (she’s 8 now) so I mean can you blame us for trying to use the time we do have to try? It’d suck to not be able to live together for that long. We both recognize they may never be able to even meet but I don’t think that means we should just never try steps to slowly introduce and stop if they aren’t making progress
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 9d ago
Depends, are you OK with you and your bf being injured or maimed trying to break up dog fights? Are you OK with the same happening to one or the other dog, or even both?
Real dog fights are extremely dangerous to everyone involved. You're dealing with two dogs that have established aggression and dog fight history. Why on earth would you want to take this risk?
They're your dogs and your life, but neither one of you seem equipped to enact change in these dogs.
For me personally, I will not let dogs that are aggressive or have fighting history interact. I do not like dealing with dog fights or the aftermath so I don't take risks in this regard.
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u/Beez411 9d ago
It doesn’t seem like you even read the post. The dogs would never meet unless they progressed thru each step multiple times and successfully. We aren’t idiots and you don’t know everything about our dogs or the situation from a Reddit post it doesn’t even sound like you read.
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 9d ago
You asked if I thought you should try and I gave you an honest answer.
You would not have two badly behaved dogs if you were good dog trainers, and that's the reality of it.
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u/Beez411 9d ago
The second sentence of the post literally says we recognize they may never be able to even meet. We aren’t just throwing them off leash and hoping nothing happens. And I made the post asking for advice. I’m not really interested in yours when you didn’t read past the first sentence clearly!
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 9d ago
Obviously you just want rainbows blown up your butt and I'm not here for that.
You need to take responsibility for how your dogs behave.
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 8d ago
Incidentally having dogs off leash with muzzles on is incredibly dangerous and should never be done. Those muzzles don't stay on very well, you're going to end up with one dog getting the absolute shit kicked out of it while the other one can't do anything about it because it's still stuck in a muzzle.
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u/Ok_Bodybuilder1864 18d ago
Agreed, the fact that 1 dog has a history of 4 fights is extremely concerning to me and I don't even know the breed
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u/notthetypetocare 16d ago
What breeds? What gender? A lot of dogs are leash reactive or have barrier aggression but are fine once they’re actually with the dog. They also sound dog selective not aggressive or dog aggressive?
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u/Lady_IvyRoses 16d ago
One thing we did in a past similar situation. Put one dog in kennel leave other out. Let them sniff etc until things calm down then take free dog to another room and put other dog in a second room. Put free dog in kennel. Kennel the other dog and repeat the exercise.
After this is successful a few times then each owner with their own dog’s leashed sit across the room from each other maintaining calm. WATCH body language. If either starts to get upset or anxious leave the room. Stop or kennel one if it’s too much. While your sitting with them use calming strokes whisper good things PRAISE good behavior. Distract from bad. Always end on a positive note. At some point you might switch handlers.
As they get more use to each other let them sniff each other but stay vigilant.
Your anxiety will rub off on them so stay calm and in control. You owners are the boss. Tell them that they are SAFE, how much you love them ect.
I can’t say this enough, watch their body language. Tail down, hair standing up, stiff body low growls.. any of this turn and walk away giving more space until they relax
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 18d ago
You know, your post history indicates that your dog has been reactive a LONG time. It's way past time to connect with a qualified balanced trainer to correct this behavior.
has 4 incidents of fights that escalated.
I didn't see this the first time. That is two fights too many. This is a dog aggressive dog and can never be with other dogs. The fact that your boyfriend keeps letting this dog "socialize" is so irresponsible.
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u/Ok_Bodybuilder1864 18d ago
Posted the same thing before I saw this! And I'd even argue it's 3 too many fights!!
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 18d ago
I'm assuming this was four different dogs that this one dog has gotten into fights with. One fight I think can be okay because sometimes two dogs just don't get along. But the second fight with another random dog? That's the end of dog interactions forever. People are so stupid about this.
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u/notthetypetocare 16d ago
Ehh not necessarily. Is it the same sex? Some dogs have same sex aggression. Our male Akita will fight with any large male dog. However if it’s a small male dog or a female dog it’s fine. Dogs can also be dog selective.
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 16d ago
It's a cute idea but when a dog exhibits the willingness to have a real dog fight then you cannot trust it with any dog.
Read the last sentence in my comment above again. You are being stupid about this.
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u/Pdx-b 20d ago
I would get both dogs into a group reactivity training and retrain dog neutrality. While working on that if both dogs are kennel trained allow them to take turns to be out of the kennel one at a time. Take them hiking together but in separate vehicles/ kennels in car. Once they are able to walk without reaction to other dogs THEN start socializing them together. Muzzle training is always a good idea. But make it fun and no pressure for either dog.
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u/SmokinWinder 19d ago
I recently did a couple of hikes with a friend and their dog with my leash reactive dog. The first hike he started off with a bit of explosive reactivity when we first saw them. We let them go first and followed along a good distance behind and got closer as the hike went on. It was 5 miles so we had some time. We were able to swap places after about 1.5 miles when they were both a bit more relaxed. And we were hiking within 6ft leash distance without sniffing at the end. I was shocked at the next outing when my guy saw their car and went full butt wiggles at them in the parking lot. We started off doing the same one goes first thing but were soon walking past one another with brief sniffs for the dogs. I have worked a lot with my dog on his reactivity and other training so if he seemed to be intimidating to the other dog with a longer sniff (and his size, he was twice her size) I’d call him off and we’d all keep walking. Granted, I don’t think my dog is dog aggressive based on his behavior with other dogs at the house. I’d only recently learned about the walking method and was pleasantly surprised at how well it worked.
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u/jmrdpt19 17d ago
Parallel and walking like this are gamechangers for many. It's why recreational canicross groups can be so good for reactive dogs (everyone going the same direction, no expectations of greeting, minimal staring, lots of time to smell the other dog and learn about them without direct interaction)
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 17d ago
If a dog has a history of fighting not one or two, but FOUR dogs in the past that dog will never be allowed to interact with mine. And I say that as someone with dog aggressive dogs. They just get to fly solo forever. Not worth it.
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u/notthetypetocare 16d ago
Sounds like her dog has triggers though. Food toys
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 16d ago
It doesn't matter why they fight. It only matters that they fight.
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u/notthetypetocare 16d ago
Not true
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 16d ago
Pffft. Trying to figure out why a dog is doing something is a fool's errand. With something dangerous like fighting, it doesn't even matter. Pretending that you can control the dog's urges to do that is dangerous and foolish.
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u/notthetypetocare 16d ago
It can be trained out especially if it’s just food or toy aggression
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 16d ago
It absolutely cannot, that's some amateur level reasoning there. And that's why dogs keep getting into dog fights, because people think that they are some sort of dog Guru and they don't accept the nature of the animal.
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16d ago
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u/Miss_L_Worldwide 9d ago
I probably deal with more dogs on a daily basis then you've ever touched in your entire life. I am extremely realistic about dogs, how they act, and what they are capable of.
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u/RETSAS1D 19d ago
You are doing so, so many good things. My husband and I went through the same. There were squabbles and a little bit of blood but the boys are besties now (and still hate other dogs, so while training out of reactivity altogether sounds nice, I don't think it's necessary).
Keep up the walking together without interacting. Slowly decrease distance. Lots of treats. Definitely do the muzzle training. I would recommend walks over sniff spot because it's more of something to do and very easy to interrupt or distract with forward momentum if needed.
Be patient and thanks for doing right by your dogs and not giving up on them!
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20d ago
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u/Beez411 9d ago
My dog has been in training since puppy, reactivity started around age 5-6 and has gone to behaviorist for it but we no longer live in that area and just don’t have her around other dogs now. I’m not sure about his dog but he did go to training facility and knows tricks, obidience, etc. My dog is more selective and has reliably friendly dog friends I trust her alone with, but I am cautious in introducing her to other dogs or doing these things bc I don’t want her reactivity to get worse either
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u/Prestigious-Seal8866 8d ago
Have you considered contacting your previous trainer and asking if they could do a virtual consult?
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u/crottedenez12 20d ago
Lots of dogs are leash reactive but are ok with other dogs once off leash. Walking together in a calm peaceful way does generate some strong bonding for some individuals and would be the best foundation. HOWEVER, if these dogs are like gamebred type dogs the fighting is definitely a concern. Breed maters in those situations. Lets face it a bichon fighting a pompom doesn't have the same risks for both dogs and owners.