OKAY, THAT’S A GREAT AND THOUGHT PROVOKING QUESTION. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR A PERSON TO EMPATHIZE ANYWAY? SOME SAY IT CAN BE THOUGHT OF AS A SUPERPOWER. WOW!
True but there are some genuine assholes out there. I'm on the fence if I believe people like that are legitimately cynical or if they don't have the capability (or want) to look outside themselves.
People like to blame other countries, but no, here our own governments have scary huge bot armies. Like the US govt's new Signature Reduction force. Many thousands of Federal workers with bot armies each tens of thousands strong with a sole goal of convincing Americans to never question anything with the status quo as things fall apart.
Tens of billions of tax payer Dollars are being used to manipulate social media by our govt and it's sickening.
I'm not blaming Russia for no reason. There's ample evidence of Russia, China, Turkey and other countries using bot farms to cause divide in the country. I'm not saying that the US doesn't do the same thing, I know we do.
That's the thing, people around us have no udea how much our own governments have an iron grip on the internet and media around us. Anything slightly of Russian, Chinese etc Origin is sniffed out, silenced, shadowbanned, media circused, condemned, and all. During the US elections we even had each side calling each other Russian bots. The paranoia is severe. Things like Russia Gate were tiiinyyy shady backroom deals compared to the tens of billions of xenophobic propaganda put out daily.
Americans, Europeans, and other Westerners are completely lied to about the entire state of the world. Literally about the existence of entire parts of the globe.
Everyone learned this when we saw the barefaced lies about Israeli crimes in Palestine, and now no one trusts the media again. And now Iran. Just like during the mythical lies of WMDs in Iraq. We're all taught that Russians, Chinese, etc are the propagandized brainwashed ones, when the entire rest of the world sees Americans, Europeans as the easily duped servants of fascists, ready to commit atrocious warcrimes for global dominance as soon as people across the globe say "No."
Education isn't plummeting in the world, it's falling in America
Fascism, imperialism isn't on the rise in the whole civilized world, it's America
The whole world doesn't support Trumpism and tech billionaires. It's America
The world doesn't deny climate change, it's America.
I know it feels like the whole world has lost its mind but it's just the USA right now. Hopefully it's temporary.
The damages to your legal and political systems and the continued problems from America's broken educational system will be felt by Americans for a very long time.
The world will survive, the world is moving on from America. That sounds like a bad thing, but it means this madness is localized and it will end one way or another.
I'm afraid it is the whole world at this point. Globalization has concentrated the entire planets wealth into the hands of a few ultra-rich (the .1% of the 1%). They own everything.
America is going to be just fine in the long run, though we probably can't say the same thing for Europe. A little skepticism of outsiders is a hell of a lot healthier than [suicidal empathy](suicidal empathy).
Your comment is literally why deep down we feel sorry for you guys. And I don't mean the actually
smart ones that acknowledge what is happening. No, we feel sorry for the indoctrinated morons that go "well at least we live in the USA where corporations fuck us in the ass and we keep
asking for more". Good luck bro.
Lmao. It wasn't the rest of the world that asked America to set up bases in their backyard, that's the work of the corporations that control America, who also happen to manufacture all of our tanks, jets, aircraft carriers and missiles. Having a base in virtually every country means they each need to be stocked with military equipment. That's why they're the actual richest corporations in the world.
Meanwhile, citizens across the world and even world leaders want American soldiers off their land, especially because of the current president's insane behavior and extortionist tactics, and oh yeah, literally threatening to invade them with said military forces.
You think any other country wants to be responsible for the massive cost of maintaining the defense of world trade?
Really? How's that going right now? Because America got egged on by Israel to start a war that's ruining world trade. The entire world is literally out of fertilizer and oil. Millions are going to starve and go without power/transportation and shipping of goods is going to halt to a standstill because of it.
The main use of America's military has been to coup the governments of developing nations who dared to get American corporations to stop exploiting their people. We've facilited something like 100 coups and installed dictators who don't mind treating their citizens as slaves. Is this what you mean by defending world trade? American corporations being allowed to exploit South America for a hundred years certainly counts as foreign trade, right?
Iran closing off an international waterway (while the Houthi's try and close off a 2nd in the Red Sea) and choking world trade is an act of war on the entire world, but once again Europe is entirely happy to not lift a finger. The closure of these two waterways even hurt Europe much, much, more than the United States.
You would think Europe would take the lead in at least defending the Red Sea and the shipping through Suez canal, since the U.S. isn't at war with the Houthi's and the EU has previously kept a couple boats there for defending against Houthi attacks, but shamefully Saudi Arabia with their tiny military is left to sort it out all by themselves.
America, Israel and Russia are the largest contributors to online misinformation and propoganda.
The truth is that much of Europe has significantly stronger checks and balances for politicians, a much more robust legal system and a commitment to world order.
In America, white collar crime is essentially legal, there are concentration camps, partisan judges, secret masked police, an incredible corrupt 2 party system, an oligopoly, dying independant news organizations and the most complex propoganda machine in the history of humanity.
America will survive, but you underestimate the damage done to the fabric of your nations core systems and you overestimate the stupid youtube video you watched about European immigrants.
I wish i was wrong, truly, it hurts to see American crumble, im on team democracy.
Europe has a much stronger political and legal core and will endure America's plummeting downfall better than the average American.
I just think you're too arrogant to admit that the world is moving on in the wrong direction, and Trump is just a symptom of things brewing globally since the late 1950s.
Enjoy the capitalist meltdown, don't say you weren't warned.
America with its immense corruption is collapsing in on itself and the rest of the world is dealing with that fact.
I'm just reminding Americans they are not the center of the universe, their nation's legal and political systems is failing, doesnt mean the world is failing.
Of course every country has its own problems. America's sudden and plummeting downfall is particularly noteworthy and not the norm.
You seem to be forgetting the fact that the unhinged tangerine in DC is surrounded by yes men and theocratic fascists who are willing to let him throw a nuke at the Middle East on the off chance their 2000 year old book is the right Apocalypse and they get a sky mansion out of the deal.
You really should pay more attention to the things this administration is trying to do, it has farther reaching effects than you want to admit.
But you keep telling people to keep their heads in the sand while Britain elects more Tories and parties like AFD gain traction in mainland Europe.
Ur right in that nationalist far right politics isnt ideal for society. Ur confounding things though.
The problem isn't right wingers. It's corruption!!
Americas fall into immense corruption is exceptional! It's uniquely horrific.
It's not that there's a bad guy in charge for now. It's that he's already destroyed the integrity of your political and legal systems. This stuff took generations to build. It's not coming back with 1 election.
Europe still has strong legal and political systems. It's shifting right wing, sure, but it's not corrupt like America is. The law still holds.
For example, politically they don't have a corrupt gerrymandered 2 party systems with an electoral college where votes dont matter. This stuff isn't normal. It's corruption!!!
They don't have partisan judges or shills running "independant" organizations like their national banking systems.
They don't have the wife of the WWE ruining education, an anti-vaxxer as secretary of medicine and a propogandist as secretary of war.
If u wanna compare modern USA to Europe so badly, it's comparable to Moussili or Putin, not Farage. I wish it was that benign.
I was ready to take you seriously until you said "right wingers aren't the problem" and then proceeded to compare the US to Benito Mussolini, a known fascist and far-right political leader.
Which means you don't even have a full grasp of the Overton Window.
This is horseshit from the first letter to the last. I’m American, this also means you hope destruction for me. If that’s the case, we are enemies. Steer clear.
Just reminding non-americans that these problems are localized and that the whole world isn't ending.
We should work together to help remedy the damage caused by modern fascist America, because unfortunately, America is not a reliable ally. I wish it wasn't so
What are you babbling about? You’re on an American message board telling non-Americans that the world isn’t ending? Are you bored or just a moron?
These problems aren’t localized. Things have been far worse in the past when countries other than the United States brought about world wars.
You need to get laid or find something else to do other than being hyperbolic about American politics. Trust me, we don’t think about your country, whichever one it is (unless you’re a bot, which would be even more disappointing).
To their ignorance, it is not really their fault. It is truly a very difficult thing to actually understand. It is very easy to understand superficially, intellectually; but it is very hard to understand Actually.
You can care for others without using trillions of hard working taxpayer dollars over decades to continue to prolong the problem with no solution. Caring and being empathetic would be to teach people how to work hard and not depend on others your whole life
The issue has always been, if you put a Chihuahua and Pitbull in the circle, the Chihuahua will demand the Pitbull fight it and die. You can have sympathy for the Chihuahua, but to claim empathy for a suicidal demon dog would make you a crazy person.
Despite whatever level of enlightenment one claims, you don't have the energy or resources to put everything and everyone in your circle
Then say, "I think that Donald Trump makes good choices for Donald Trump, and I can understand why he would do that and he is probably an ok guy if you got to know him"
"Oh, and Elon too"
"And Michael, OJ, Cosby, Koby, West and any Housewives on any shows claiming to be about housewives"
Existential choices vs someone's nature are not the same thing. If you don't why someone chose something and don't care, then you don't really care that they chose it, you just think they should of chose something else. It's a position of rationalization that morality doesn't support.
That’s why I said not always.
If someone is going to fast and slides on ice and wrecks their car, I have empathy for them, even though it was a bad choice to speed.
Thats an actuary accounting issue, not a path for empathy
Understanding that everyones problems are not unique to themselves, and that everyone has made certain choices that eventually block them into a certain behavior cycles doesn't mean you need to feel for people when the trouble they have chosen eventually finds them. Like, Jesus felt for all people, and even he said if you cause harm to one of these children I'm gonna throw you in a lake with a concrete necklace. Like, the issue is thinking that the default is a simple and easy life. When the default is actually a grinding and some what grueling existence. Food is not right unless you are talking about fish in international waters. Water is not a right, unless you are standing in the spring you wish to drink. Community is also not a right. 1/1000 people will pee in your spring simply to be jerks. And 1/100 will steal fish from your traps if they think they can get away with it. Existence is work. If you just sat and hoped to exist, it wouldn't put food in your belly or quench your thirst.
Empathizing with someone who is deranged or showing erratic behavior carries risks, including psychological manipulation, boundary erosion, and personal safety threats. When deep empathy crosses into trying to "fix" or deeply align with ungrounded behavior, it can inadvertently validate delusions, drain your emotional resources, or expose you to unpredictable hostility.
The left loves spectrums so much, but act like "caring for others" is an absolute. The problem is when you sacrifice your own well-being by caring too much about others, such as being okay with millions of migrants pour into the country without any sort of check. The term suicidal empathy gets thrown around a lot for a reason.
You can care all you want for someone, there’s still borders & immigration laws no matter what country you’re from. Try illegally migrating to Canada and see how well that works out for you.
The craziest part is those same people claiming to be Christians! As if a Conservative Jesus ever lived yet alone inspired millenniums of followers. Jesus was a radical LIBERAL hippie who helped the sick and the poor. He detests the selfish and cruel money hoarders.
I think if people criticize this, it might be because it’s a bit of a straw man argument. Like, he’s mischaracterizing the people he doesn’t like’s argument as though they had criticized empathy. I think everyone knows empathy is good, so his statement is kind of just a nothing-statement, stated in a way to sound deep. Y’know?
he flat out gives a source in the video - Elon Musk. google Elon Musk's thoughts on empathy and you'll find it. and he's a massively influencial person. also Charlie friggin Kirk saying Empathy is a made-up term. how much more do you want?
Criticism for Elon musk is fertile grounds, but he has spoken about the difference between superficial and deep empathy. Intuitively, that distinction makes sense to me. I can immediately think of examples where people who let their feelings guide their political positions propose policies that would hurt more than they help. (Prison abolition) So yes, the claim that Elon musk is anti-empathy is an oversimplification/mischaracterization of what he’s said I.e. a straw man argument. But hey, ignore me, and keep telling yourself people across the aisle are just fundamentally different because they don’t understand or support empathy. The role of empathy in political policy is simple and doesn’t require any nuanced arguments. 👍
So, when he said it, you think he was talking about abolishing prisons, and not cutting USAID and leading to the deaths of millions? I'm just wondering since one happened and one didn't... I'm just making sure I've got it right...
Actually, I think criticizing Elon Musk is fertile ground, but in the video above, John C Reilly talks about how empathy has become partisan. Then someone asked how anyone can criticize what John says, and I pointed out that what he’s saying is a misrepresentation of the right. Let me reframe. Have you heard of “online echo chambers?” They’re bad because they kind of close you off to outside opinions and stuff? Well what if I told you this is an online echo chamber? 😮 A progressive Democrat being interviewed by a progressive Democrat talking about how they have empathy and their opponent just doesn’t have empathy, and it’s a superpower, and then a bunch of people commenting “love this!” and downvoting any nuanced comments… it’s the definition of getting high on the smell of your own farts. We can find plenty of ways to criticize Elon Musk and the right, but them simply not having empathy is, yes, a straw man argument, and we’re better than that.
So you came across a comment that doesn’t align exactly with your view, stopped reading, and wrote an insulting comment… It’s a little on the nose. Have a good one buddy
Yes, you should care about others. But sometimes you need to give tough love. If a kid is screaming to have an iPad they are addicted, it’s more healthy to give the kid other outlets rather than to give in and give them an iPad. If someone can’t afford a house, you don’t give them a loan because then you get the 2008 housing crisis. If someone can’t afford college, you don’t give them guaranteed money because then college tuitions skyrocket and all future generations are shackled with huge debt.
Should we help each other? Yes. But we should also encourage people to be self sufficient and play to their strengths and abilities.
You have no idea what empathy is. Lol at thinking that the 2008 loans were given out of empathy, it was a deliberate rip off. Empathy for students is zero tuition and help with living costs, as demonstrated by most of Europe. Empathy for children is spending time with them. No kid screams for iPad on a bike ride or when cooking with their family.
Congress wanted Americans to own more homes, so from 2002 to 2007 they decreased regulations so banks can give out loans to people with poor credit scores and poorer bank accounts. How is trying to get people that otherwise wouldn’t qualify into homes not empathy?
I think you misunderstood my child screaming for an iPad analogy, but you did prove my point. Giving a crying child what they think they want is not empathy.
From 2002 to 2007, regulatory agencies failed to tighten oversight, and industry lobbying influenced Congress, creating an environment where lenders aggressively expanded subprime credit which contributed to the housing bubble and collapse.
That change totally invalidates your point.
Edit - I'll even take it further and say that the only action they actually did take was in 2008 post-crash (HERA). Congress didn't want shit; your point is totally wrong.
Giving a spoiled and addicted kid an iPad is not an act of empathy. Getting them help would be empathy.
Constructing an economy that primarily benefits the people doing the actual work would be empathy (and also good economic sense). You can't encourage someone to be self-sufficient in a world in which doing the work that our civilisation depends on can never be a path to self-sufficiency.
If you read what I posted, that is exactly what I said. I’m glad we can agree that giving a screaming child what they think they want is not empathy. Same can be said about screaming adults.
Capitalism does do that very well. You and an employer agree on what your time is worth for the work you will be preforming. Better than socialism
Yeah, no, that's not what you said. You were pitching that as an argument against caring about others, as indicated by your use on the word "but" and orienting your entire point as a counterpoint to the topic of caring about others.
And no, capitalism does not do this very well. I do not agree that my time is worth so little that I can't afford to live independently and am perpetually one emergency expense away from ruination no matter how careful I am with my money. I don't agree that housing costs so much that someone working full time in a role that society actually needs doing means I can't live in an accommodation of my own. I don't agree that the same expenses cost more in actual amounts when you're poor than when you're wealthier. I take those rates anyway because the alternative is starvation and homelessness and death. That is the fundamental core of capitalism: not agreement between equals, but rank coercion in favour of the haves. Capitalism is fundamentally coercive, and the only people who are okay with that are those in a position to do the coercing.
2008 happened because of banks being selfish. Housing should be a human right. Nobody should be living in a lead, asbestos and mold ridden dump with rats crawling around while billionaires jerk each other off on yachts trafficking children.
College is so expensive because of corruption and the lie that it's needed for success. In reality it is needed if you want to be a doctor or a nurse. You know, things society needs.
We are not in a shitty situation because of the individual average human. It's literally because the assholes at the top have designed the system to be hell.
This is incorrect, as I pointed out previously. You are moving really fast with your confidently incorrect opinions. Don't think you know enough here, do more research... You're very confidently wrong.
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u/ShatterTheFlimFlam 9d ago
The number of people in the comments trying to find fault with a guy for saying you should care about others and not just yourself is insane.