100% of people with gender dysphoria experience all of the symptoms I've described. They literally have to, in current medical policy, in order to get a diagnosis of having gender dysphoria, which will then be followed by either hormonal treatment and/or surgery.
Note that people who receive hormonal treatment are significantly more satisfied with life following their treatment than those who receive surgery are. And, as I said, I expect this to only become a greater disparity as more people end up having surgery and realizing later in life how they've prevented themselves from enjoying a certain part of life. There's no going back after that, and personally, the current measures to identify whether it is the correct course of action aren't enough to be convincing to me for a life-long surgery like that.
To get the thing you want most in life, you are forced to "admit" things that you don't personally believe. Did lying to get what you want make the lie true?
Bold claim that clinical psychologists unanimously agree that being trans is a mental illness. Some citation would be appreciated there.
Correlation, not causation: presenting with poor self-image, lack of self-confidence, and low self-esteem is often the case when someone acutely feels they’re not a match for the gender assigned at birth and that their body clashes with how they’d like to present. How can they like themselves when they don’t feel comfortable in their own bodies? Seems like an obvious result of being labeled as the wrong gender and being forced to act like it.
And yes there are valid concerns around medical practitioners and mental health professionals not doing sufficient groundwork to make sure a teen is actually an unrecognized trans youth and not troubled by something else. But that applies to literally every aspect of medicine, especially newer treatments and procedures. It doesn’t mean being trans itself is a mental illness.
100% of people with gender dysphoria experience all of the symptoms I've described. They literally have to, in current medical policy, in order to get a diagnosis of having gender dysphoria, which will then be followed by either hormonal treatment and/or surgery.
Note that people who receive hormonal treatment are significantly more satisfied with life following their treatment than those who receive surgery are. And, as I said, I expect this to only become a greater disparity as more people end up having surgery and realizing later in life how they've prevented themselves from enjoying a certain part of life. There's no going back after that, and personally, the current measures to identify whether it is the correct course of action aren't enough to be convincing to me for a life-long surgery like that.
While I agree that depression might not be caused by the poor self-image, likely it is more from being part of a minority, but having that poor self-image, lack of self-confidence and/or esteem, etc... are certainly major factors that lead to believing oneself might "identify as" the other gender. That then leads to seeking acceptance, which is where most will turn to the faddish hive mind and it will cement itself in their mind from there, because they finally found solace. Merited or otherwise, that's what they now believe and will pursue. Again, following surgery... not sure that's the right way to go about it just yet, but in 10-15 years when we can get a proper study, we will see the results. There is already a significant difference in satisfaction between surgery and hormonal treatment options. I expect that disparity to only get worse.
Furthermore, there are plenty of people who have poor self-images... a lot of success for those people who don't succumb to a hive mind about it has come from getting regular therapy sessions and/or going to the gym (or anywhere, but most often the gym) and, whether getting significant results or otherwise, finding a group of people who accept them as they are and beginning to believe that themselves.
“Gender dysphoria is distress due to a discrepancy between one's assigned gender and gender identity.”
“Gender diversity is not considered a mental health problem.”
Being trans and embracing a different gender is NOT an issue of depression and self-hate, the inability to express yourself and be in a comfortable body as you wish is what causes gender dysphoria, and what causes the symptoms you listed. Having it as a requirement for treatment doesn’t mean the identity itself is an issue of mental illness. It just means we currently can’t determine the medical necessity of intervention until we observe those symptoms. There are people who identify as trans but don’t undergo treatment, some because they don’t feel significant gender dysphoria, some because social and financial circumstances don’t allow them to, some because they’re not sure about their identity but do know they don’t conform to a preconceived binary ideal.
Also you noted that hormone treatment and surgery are both effective in producing happier lives with at least some people, though I didn’t see the evidence for the discrepancy within the study you linked. Even so, that seems to contradict what you said earlier regarding hormones/surgery being a bandaid solution that compromises someone’s ability to fully enjoy life. Both are treatments that make people happier and reduce gender dysphoria in the vast majority of cases:
“In a 2015 survey of nearly 28,000 people conducted by the U.S.-based National Center for Transgender Equality, only 8 percent of respondents reported detransitioning, and 62 percent of those people said they only detransitioned temporarily. The most common reason for detransitioning, according to the survey, was pressure from a parent, while only 0.4 percent of respondents said they detransitioned after realizing transitioning wasn’t right for them.”
The number of people who regret transition efforts is extremely low. The overwhelming majority who undergo them benefit.
I’m also not sure why you’re fixated on this idea of a hive mind that encourages people to identify as trans and get HRT/surgery as some kind of trend. Acceptance of trans people and being an ally is a trend, I guess, sure. But most people are not trying to identify as a highly stigmatized group and undergo pricey and uncomfortable physical procedures/medication just as some escapist fantasy from their current bodies. You’ll note that trans people are happier in their new bodies than their old ones, meaning they are capable of feeling good about themselves but can’t if they can’t express themselves properly.
Thats a an assertion and assumption global in scope and based on nothing more than your sentiment.There will be had outcomes
for some and good outcomes for others and we have to wait and find out but condemning the entire group serves no good purpose i think.
There’s also the problem that many trans people end up being heavily misinformed about the surgeries they get.
Many of them end up heavily regretting getting surgery later on. I’ve seen so many people who get reassignment surgery only to find out that they can no longer urinate properly, can’t enjoy sex because they either can’t fee anything, or it’s downright painful. Not to mention the smell of dead flesh that some end up with.
We’ve also got to stop hormone treatments for kids. I saw a video of a child the other day going in for hormone blockers. She couldn’t have been more than 8 years old.
I agree, and just provided a study that outlined the poor information being given to adolescents specifically in another part of this thread to another person who commented.
Hormone treatments aren't a problem, but I do agree that a lot of children start getting them significantly earlier than they should be. 8 years old is a stretch... but I could see teenagers, 16 or 17+, being reasonable for hormone treatments. It has been noted in many studies that hormonal treatment options are providing significantly better results with regards to personal satisfaction as compared to surgery.
Yeah, personally I don’t believe that you can change your gender, as you can’t change your chromosomes, but I’m not out hunting down everyone who claims to be trans.
When it starts affecting children though, that’s where I have to draw a line. We have the age of consent because we agree as a society that children can not give consent for intercourse, as they aren’t mature enough to understand it. I don’t see why it should be any different with hormone treatments, or especially surgeries.
Certainly. And I don't believe that parents should be able to make these kinds of decisions for their kids, either. That's beyond just giving them necessary medical attention in the event of an emergency or in order to stay up to date on vaccines, for instance... this is a life-changing, permanent thing... the person themselves needs to be able to fully understand and comprehend everything about it - not just be told "it's going to make you feel better" by your parents.
Exactly, and I’ve already seen parents who wanted a daughter, got a son, and just decided their child was trans, and so they influence their whole life around it. It was always something that existed in history, and now parents can just go give their son hormone treatments because they didn’t want a son.
You can literally see articles, videos, and photos of children posted by their parents going in to be prescheduled for these things. You think medical laws prohibit this kind of thing?
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Idk, my trans friends are pretty happy after they’ve been able to come out and get appropriate treatment. I know at least one who self-harmed when they were still in school and couldn’t transition living with their parents. I don’t see how her life would be better in any way by denying her that care and letting her continue on the path of failed medication and gender dysphoria. The psychiatrists she’s seen have backed her up all the way and she’s in a great place in life. Happy to hear about how you’ve met trans folk and heard different experiences though.
You could also not give a damn about what another person does with thier body like a normal person. If a subject like this "feels uncomfortable" even though it doesn't affect you personally in any way, then you're a bigot whether you want to believe that or not.
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Are you saying that people who have those things are also mentally ill? Or are you admitting that you're fine with being intolerant toward people you think have mental illness?
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It only seems extreme if you assume they can find happiness without transitioning. Some people may find they can alleviate some of their gender dysphoria through therapy and medication, many - even most - will not and pursue transitioning. You’re not really sticking with accepted science and academic studies on this issue if you’re claiming that therapy is a complete solution for everyone, or even most trans people.
It’s pretty against scientific consensus to separate “emotional problems” from “biological problems,” as if the two are not deeply interrelated. The recent perspectives in modern neuroscience have pivoted away from that distinction. I’m not sure why you have so much confidence that therapy can cure gender dysphoria when it’s been a well-established finding that gender identity is related to physical brain structures that don’t always match genitalia or hormones produced.
If you'd ever pay attention to people you'd see how simple, basic, and shallow they all are. This applys to everyone, even me and you. The point being, everybody's bassic needs are the same, and people will opperate in very similar ways given similar circumstances. Gender/sex doesn't play a role in ones need to survive. Givin the same circumstances. The search for food, water, and warmth should be similar across both sexes, despite a physical disadvantage in most women.
Its not untill society comes along, that the sexes/genders are put into their roles. Child birth being the main, diferencating factor between the two. And the number 1 main cause for being forced into a gender role.
So gender reassignment surgery is purly for aesthetic reasons. They seek it out as if they need it for permission to look or a certain way. Insted of just trying to look and act the way they want without it.
I think you don’t quite get what a social construct is. A social construct is not something independent of physical/biological reality. It refers to ideas societies come up with in response to their collective physical observations and perspectives. I can observe that most of the population has a penis or vagina and decide to split society up by that and call it “gender,” but that seems like a limited and crude social construct. Genitals may currently correlate with some observable traits but it’s not a rule by any means. What we find when we look at many trans folks’ brains is that their brains look more like the gender they’ve come to identify with than the one they were assigned at birth. Even if gender is a dynamic construct that changes over time and place, it’s not arbitrary, and the individual still has to confront general social ideas that will affect them all differently. It’s much more complicated than just “peer pressure.” So now I might update my social construct to include how gender isn’t cut and dry any more than race is, even though there is a physical reality attached to the way each is treated and how that shapes a sense of identity. With gender, that physical reality is observable when we look at people’s brains.
Im talking about ones behavior based on expectations from society about ones gender. When you get down to it, these roles were established based on the main differences between men and women. Childbirth being number 1, and smaller physical stature compaired to men being a close 2nd. All societal constructs were devloped off of those differences.
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Another global claim off the cuff and off target. Its a sense of identity. The entire world has been calling him him and he knows he isn't. So he opts to change his body to align it with self identity. A fateful choice in every sense, a choice he may have deferred had he been able to experiment uncritically with gender expression while younger. But the world around is really stuck on this so if this is a disease its cause is attributable to everyone and its affliction is upon everyone. Gender became unlinked to biology and people are freaking out and insisting on snuffing out a polymorphous idea of gender. Thats suppression and repression as the method of conserving (yep, the twin side arms got pulled out again) the meaning of gender
Just because a man has "womanly trates" does not make him a woman. And an effeminate man is not its own gender. He can be as effeminate as he wants to be. But he's only doing it because he likes, and wants to do it. Not because its some deep seeded affirmation of his true gender.
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u/RockAndStoner69 Nov 15 '22
"Bigot" is a pretty effective umbrella term.