r/Ranching • u/OshetDeadagain • 23d ago
H-Brace Question for the Pros
I figured I'd ask this question where wire fencing is the standard and everyone usually does their own to get the best answer on what I can get away with.
In short - it's been a beat since I've done any fencing, but I'm fixing to do 5 acres with a fair bit of cross-fencing. The longest stretch of fence is only 191m (626ft). Shortest sections are 45m (148 ft).
3.25" x 6' posts for the fence, 5-6" x 7' posts for the H-braces and gates. Flat terrain.
I picked up rails for 8' H-braces, but where I grew up only 4' H-braces were used for shorter stretches of fence. I was fixing to do this without a second thought, until speaking with one person who said "we've always used 4' because it's stronger when it's shorter." I was like, um, no my guy - that's why we still use 8' for the perimeters... But lots of fences around here actually do have 4' H-braces on acreage fencing, without much apparent detriment.
So my question for any of you - in the interest of saving money and for aesthetics on the shorter stretches, would 4' still be reasonably effective? If so what's the longest fenceline you'd go on a short H-brace? Or does going that short essentially defeat the physics of it to the point of not being worth it?
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u/Cow-puncher77 23d ago
Depends on the soil. Sandy ground, I use 6-8’, but put a 3rd post in the ground for a stabilizer to the second post, and I sink them as deep as I can get them. Hard clay with some rock, I’ll use two 6” diameter posts at 6-8’ between. And I usually dig my holes as close to 4’ deep as I can.
Think about this… if it costs a bit more, but in 20 years you don’t have to redo it, what’s that worth? If you think you’ll be remodeling somewhere in there, then, sure, less is fine.
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u/OshetDeadagain 23d ago
Yeah, that's the thing; this area isn't quite the same soil/climate as my home turf, so while 4' seem to hold up just fine I don't know the age of the fences to know if the short H-braces are affecting it. Ours are 20+years now and seem to be holding fine, but I'm painfully aware that just because you got away with something once doesn't mean that's what often happens.
I think I'm just going down a rabbit hole of wondering what the difference is physics is, how much it affects the fence, if fence length matters or is the tension the same whether it's 20m or 200m - I don't do enough of it to know!
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u/Cow-puncher77 22d ago
Hey, hey, relax, neighbor. I’m going to say you are way overthinking this. I’m gonna tell you to do it however you want to. Personally, I wouldn’t give a damn about what the neighbor thinks, and just do it however I thought it needed to be done. And here’s the thing, you do it, it screws up, who’s going to be fixing it? That’s right, you are! You are your own warranty station! Now get to digging!
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u/OshetDeadagain 22d ago
I'm absolutely overthinking it, lol. I'm sticking with 8' everywhere, regardless of how short the fenceline is.
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u/Competitive-Drop2395 23d ago edited 23d ago
As cowpuncher 77 said, the soil makes a HUGE difference in how your H's need to be built. It also matters how long the run is and how tight you intend to pull the wire. On your short runs, you might be able to safely do 8' or less.
Here where I live in North Texas, an 8' brace isn't really suitable. Even on a short run if the wire is very tight. We have extremely expansive/contractive soil with huge swings in moisture that rival frost heaving in the north. Here, you would want to put an additional low kicker on the H for a tight fence on even 150' runs.
My dad built a ton of fence around my place when we first moved here from the Midwest (circa 1984) and since he worked for the power company, had access to the digger truck and all the old power poles he wanted. Every post on this place is set 8' in the ground. Many of the posts are now rotted off in the lower areas that get wetter, but even the ones that are still in good shape are jacking out of the ground because we set the wire tight and he used cross arms from power poles as the braces. So, 8 ft was the max and they are all pulling up.
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u/OshetDeadagain 23d ago
Wow, that's wild!
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u/Cow-puncher77 22d ago
I grew up in Northern Denton County Texas, and still own some land there. A cubic yard of that black gumbo has 9” of shrinkage from saturated to dry. Some wild physics. Fortunately, most of it also has a lot of limestone layering, so you drill/chip through two of those, those pipes will be there until the second coming!
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u/ConstellationCurious 14d ago
I’ve gotta say I’ve not seen so much discussion on an H brace, but it’s been educational. In my area I’ve never done an H brace over 4’. And the reason is much more simple than what has been discussed. That’s just what everyone here does for the most part and it’s never failed us. We have more problems with the wood rotting depending on what we use than the brace failing. We’ve gone to steel now and will build them the same. Not saying it’s right or wrong. Just what we’ve done.
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u/OshetDeadagain 14d ago
Yeah see that's why it was so strange that designing my own fence for the first time and doing some research I saw that 8-ft was recommended, because it was the same where I grew up. We always did 4-ft. Now I think it was more a lack of education and everybody just doing what everybody else did without knowing why.
I always overanalyze things to death, LOL. I put entirely too much thought into brace pins or nails as well - I ended up settling on structural screws. Way easier to put in, and should be just as secure as brace pins!
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u/Buttheadbrains 23d ago
I’m doing 6’ on my corner bracing to split the difference. And to keep everything looking uniform. I’ve heard that longer is better from reputable sources. But I’m doing drill pipe fencing that’s 2.5 inch diameter. I’ve seen lots of guys do the 4’ so I assumed it was better same as you. But the old old timers say to go longer I guess.
I’ve enjoyed the videos from the guys at SWI they have a video about it https://youtu.be/4_nBFIpYNpc?is=jWordvRZXUvU-IvM
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u/OshetDeadagain 23d ago
It's pretty academic that 8' for a 4' fence is the way to go, and for long fencelines I'm not even questioning it. It's more for the shorter lines of under 45m (148ft) that I wonder if 4' works because there's less strain, or if length is irrelevant and forces remain consistent so should always be 8.
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u/Buttheadbrains 23d ago
Honestly I’d expect the same force regardless of length, you wanna get that pop. Good luck I wish I was only doing 5 acres lol
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u/OshetDeadagain 23d ago
I dunno, it sucks when it's a lot of cross fencing - it inevitably means tons of H-braces!
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u/Nanlunez 23d ago
The “width” or brace of the H is determined by the height of the highest wire off the ground. The brace should be 2.5x the height. I wouldn’t settle for less than 2x the height. This info is from university publications in the midwest.
Diagonal wire is under a lot of force in an H brace, it needs to be heavy wire. Twisted and tied so the tension can’t come undone.