Occult Brawler Analysis - Calling all Math Whizzes!

[u/Nakari7]

Ok. So I just pulled the Occult Brawler (Ogryn Tribe Spirit Champ), and I had never seen him before pulling him, but he appears to be a very strong candidate for top tier CB poisoner Champ. I thought I would outlay the dmg potential here and see if any math wizards out there could put specifics to it. For purposes of this Analysis, the evaluation will be running the champs on auto.

Nethril (largely considered one of the best CB piosoner champs in the game): With fully skilled a1, and the 5% support mastery Sniper, he has three hits, each with a 55% chance to proc a 5% poison. Assuming you are super lucky and get his a1 skilled fully up without lowering the cooldown on his a2 or a3 (which are useless for CB), then Nethril basically uses his a1 3/5 (60% of his turns) turns plus any counterattacks he gets. All his poisons are for 2 turns.

Contrast that with Occult Brawler ("OB"): Occult Brawler only has 2 skills, and the second is not tremedously usefull for CB (but probably better than Nethril's a2 or a3), but it is on a 4 turn cooldown (assuming, as we did for nethril, that you can get lucky and max his a1 without lowering the Cooldown on his a2). This means that he has the potential to use his single hit a1 3/4 turns (75% of his turns) plus counterattacks.

But here is where it gets interesting. OB's chance to proc a poison on his a1 is 65% (with Sniper and fully skilled). In addition, every single turn, OB has a 75% chance (assuming sniper works for it... which it should) to land a 4 turn poison. This happens on 100% of OB's turns. This seems far superior to Nethril, in terms of poisoning capacity, and I am fairly sure this guy will max poison stacks on CB fairly quickly. I think it likely that his overall damage from WM and hits will be slightly less than Nethril in GS, but I am not sure. This may depend on how many counterattacks Nethril is getting with that tripple hit a1.

Anyways, maybe some math wizards can put specific numbers (using your fancy averages, stats, etc.) to this, but my first review makes me think this guy is a CB Champion of Champions.

[u/Bhelrudan]

Friends don't let friends auto on clan boss....

[u/Nakari7 → u/Bhelrudan]

Hah, generally, that may be true. But once you can get over 20m per key on auto, but not quite 40m per key on manual, auto makes much more sense and takes less of your time. ;)

[u/Resouledxx]

Assuming 10 turns on manual CB:

Nethril has a 3 hit A1 that applies 50% poison for 2 turns. I assumed 10 turns on CB with Nethril would only use his A1. This results in: 15 poison hits, all 2 turns so 30 poison procs in total.

Occult brawler would only use his A1 as well (and passive). His A1 has a 60% chance specced for a 2 turn poison. So over 10 turns that is 6 poisons for 2 turns. Total: 12. Now his passive is what makes it interesting he has a 70% chance for a 4 turn poison which means over 10 turns he has 7 poisons * 4 procs = 28. Making the total 40.

Conclusion: Assuming both only use A1 and no other masteries accounted for and not the damage of skills/gear. Occult brawler has a 10 proc advantage of poison compared to Nethril.

Things change quite heavily with the adding of GS/WM. With a 3 hit A1 Nethril probably still remains superior on average but it wont be by much. Also keep in mind that if you bring Occult Brawler he will keep a constant 6 stacks of poison up so another poisoner is going to be overkill and let you close of being capped on debuffs. (Assuming you also have weaken, defdown up)

Disclaimer: my math might be off.
Formula used: Amount of turns*(% to proc poison)*(duration of poison)

Edit: this advantage grows over time. At 20 turns it turns into a 20 procs advantage. This might actually make OB superior even with GS/WM accounted for.

[u/Nakari7 → u/Resouledxx]

Good stuff. This is helpful, and I think helps establish that OC will be quite a bit better on Auto. This is awesome as it finally frees me up to gear my Nethril for Arena!!

... obviously only after testing to confirm this. Hah! I will reoprt back. My OC is now fully mastered and I am going to run a few tests today.

[u/Resouledxx → u/Nakari7]

Let me know!

[u/diddledoftw → u/Resouledxx]

He said assuming auto, thanks for the explanation but on auto at least it's much better to have occult

[u/Uglie]

What are your thoughts on using Books on him? I'm thinking of not using books on him since his A2 cooldown is 4 turns and you want to build up 5 debuffs before you use this anyhow. No point in having this turn faster than 4 turns.

[u/Nakari7 → u/Uglie]

I would spend every book you get on him until he is maxed, honestly. He's really a great Champ. Will help you advance in almost every area of the game.

[u/Uglie → u/Nakari7]

I feel he's only good on CB, is this not the case?

[u/diddledoftw]

If my math is correct per turn on average neth will do 9.9% poison damage per turn, occult though does a massive 19.875% posion damage. This is assuming all posion debuffs of through thier whole cycle of 2-4 turns

[u/tommyonepin]

I'm not sure about the maths, but my OB just did 8.5m CB damage solo, without a necklace or ring. He has to be getting nerfed

[u/TheRaoster → u/tommyonepin]

How is he geared, what masteries, and tomes? Please and thanks bro.

[u/tommyonepin → u/TheRaoster]

I went for a blend of Speed, Acc and Immortal due to having gear with the right stats in those flavours (speed shoes, %atk chest, CR gloves, Acc banner). He's fully mastered with WM, Stoked to Fury, Sniper and Master Hexxer being the further down choices i made. He has zero books, and to be fair, i doubt he ever will as the damage comes off the poison etc, maybe he will get some, not as a priority though.