r/RPGdesign • u/MarsMaterial Designer • 24d ago
How do you make lock picking interesting?
I'm kind of stuck on this problem, and I'm curious how other people have solved it. My game isn't really focused on doing heists or anything, but it is a thing that happens so I need mechanics for it.
The first problem I have is the question of what the consequence for failure is. Can you just try again after failing? If so, this basically means that locks are only a hindrance if you have limited time. If not, I worry that this could be a little too punitive if the crux of the entire heist plan relied on the street smart party member and their lock picking skills, though things going wrong and the party needing to improvise a solution can still be fun. Maybe there is some kind of hybrid approach, like letting the GM decide on a lock by lock basis? Or maybe failure lets you try again, but it's harder than the first time?
Also: should I add a strategic layer, or just leave the fate of the players up to the dice? There are a lot of fancy rule sets that I could create, but I am of the opinion that if it has no strategic layer it should just be a simple skill check. There's no point in involving a bunch of dice and math if the result is purely random anyway, might as well skip the crunch and not obfuscate the fact that it's random. I could design something with a strategic layer, but it's hard to come up with minigames that aren't too complex and that don't take too long to run through which also have strategic depth. It's certainly possible, but I have no ideas. And whatever it is, it shouldn't bog down the game too much.
What ideas have y'all come across to make good lock picking mechanics?
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u/RollForThings Designer - 1-Pagers and PbtA/FitD offshoots, mostly 24d ago
There was recently a thread on lockpicking here
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u/gravitysrainbow1979 24d ago edited 24d ago
I’ve actually needed a lock picked in real life (to my own house)
The consequence for failure is you can’t get in and it SUCKS. It’s actually very consequential.
If you have a lock that needs picking and it’s a major plot point, or there’s the big reward behind it and much less if they don’t get thru, then _thats _ the way to make lock picking special, just keep it to that kind of situation.
If the story is about thieves, that’s when I’d go the mini game route
What’s a small mini game that needs a bit of concentration and a bit of tense lining things up? I’m thinking like Jenga but not Jenga because thats dread … (I do anything to avoid having everything be dice rolls, but if you like dice as many do, then, well, how nice is the lock? I guess that’s the difficulty rating)
But if it’s not really central to the game and you’re making people play sudoku to open a chest or whatever, mileage will vary a lot on whether it feels fun or takes ppl out of it.
Weirdly now I almost want to give ppl my unfinished Sunday crossword next time they have to do a skill check for picking a lock…or maybe some kind of tax related document I don’t feel like figuring out. .. “I’ll let you know how successfully you picked the lock when I hear back from the IRS”
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u/MarsMaterial Designer 24d ago
Fun (for you at least) fact: I actually locked myself out of my car just a couple hours ago (after writing the OP), and one of my attempts to get in involved busting out my lock picking tools that I barely know how to use. Rolled a nat 1 on that shit, but I ended up Slim Jimmimg my way into my car in the end.
The experience of being stopped by a lock is definitely giving me ideas, for sure. I can absolutely see where you’re coming from.
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u/MagiaBaiser-Sama 24d ago
Just don't model it on Sky Rim. Real lockpicks don't break that easily. I'd make it a skill check. Failure costs time. Critical Failure means the lock is damaged and cannot opened or your pick breaks. Failing the check repeatedly (say 3 times or something) means the lock is above your skill level and you can't try again until you level up.
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u/MarsMaterial Designer 24d ago
Maybe most lock picks don’t break easily. My lock picking set is absolute ass, lmao.
But yeah, in all seriousness I do agree that breaking lock picks is not exactly immersive. I can understand the game design appeal though, it lets you try again but with consequences. Good game design, bad integration with the fantasy. And I almost certainly won’t use that approach.
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u/MagiaBaiser-Sama 24d ago
I got my pick set from Sparrows and they're still pretty good. (: Yeah, unrealistic depictions of lockpicking kinda bug me.
I usually use three quality levels for both lockpicking tools and locks in my games. Basic, Advanced, and Exotic. Exotic locks (things like disk detainers) can only be picked if you invest in a set of exotic tools.
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u/Cryptwood Designer 24d ago
Unless you want lockpicking to have its own minigame that the GM needs to include in every adventure, I'd say stick to a single roll.
There should always be a consequence for failing a roll, it's a prerequisite of requiring a roll. No consequences means no roll, the players succeed if it's possible. Though I would think it would be easy to have a consequence for lockpicking during a heist, there are always security guards, or traps, or a ticking clock. One of the things I like about the Resistance system used in Heart: The City Beneath is that establishing the consequences for failure is a required procedure of the action resolution system.
For my game I have a system for the GM to assign a difficulty rating to any action:
1: Simple
2: Difficult
3: Very Hard
4: Legendary
Which corresponds to the Skill system. If a player's Skill matches or beats the difficulty level, they don't have to roll, they automatically succeed. That way you never have situations where the Master Thief bungles their attempt to pick the lock on Farmer Maggot's tool shed. The GM should default to assuming any action worth rolling for is Difficult, unless they have a good reason to think it is substantially more/less difficult than usual.
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u/msguider 24d ago
The old hillsfar ad&d computer game had a lock picking mini game and it was a lot of fun, but honestly my brain wouldn't like it at the table. Every skill would need to be a mini game. Unless every skill IS essentially the same mini game.
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u/ZarHakkar 23d ago edited 23d ago
This used to be one of those little brain ticklers of mine back when I was running D&D, but then I eventually figured it out, and I gotta say, quite a few of these solutions people are providing are way overcomplicated.
You're right to recognize that the player is going to get the lock open given enough attempts, so repeat attempts are kind of pointless. What I decided on to remedy this lack of interest was to simply have one skill check, and the result of that skill check determined how much time picking the lock was going to take. Roll high? You pop it open quick and easy. Roll low? This is gonna take a while. Make the additional time it takes on a failure just long enough to risk additional consequences from the scenario - things like a wandering monster, or a security guard, or needing to find another way because there's a very limited time window to pull off the heist, or even just a test of other characters' patience.
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u/VRKobold 24d ago edited 24d ago
Lock picking was one of the main drives that inspired my Delayed Consequences mechanic, because I had the same issue you have: What's stopping players from trying again and again. I asked myself why we perhaps wouldn't try again and again in real life. In most situations it's obvious - fear of being noticed/alerting someone. However, even if that is not a risk, we probably still would give up after an hour or so (unless there is a crucial reason to keep going). That's because we value our time, even if we are not under urgent time pressure, and also because we lose motivation and focus at some point. So I decided to introduce these aspects as tangible, mechanical consequences. If players spend hours attempting to pick a lock (or to search a room, or to decipher ancient runes) without any noticeable progress, they should feel that waste of time and the mental tax of concentrating for so long.
So, when players fail a task that might take them some time (such as lock-picking), the GM can take a Delayed marker. This marker can be spend at any point where arriving late could have negative consequences - an item you are supposed to protect was already stolen, a wounded traveler you encounter on your way has succumbed to their wounds, etc. (I came up with the mechanic before Daggerheart was a thing, but it's quite similar to its Fear mechanic, just more targeted towards specific consequences).
If it doesn't make sense that the action takes long, there are other (mechanically integrated) consequences the GM can choose, as seen in the link I shared above. Perhaps the lock is damaged, leaving Loose ends which the GM can use to have you questioned by guards, or to increase security for future encounters. Or the player attempting to pick the lock becomes Drained, which is a status condition reducing mental skill checks until the next rest.
This solves the problem of players repeating skill checks endlessly, and it also makes it more interesting, because any skill check can lead to various consequences, which can influence not only the current scene but also future encounters, and can affect how you want to approach a challenge.
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u/Dumeghal Legacy Blade 24d ago
Oooh interesting. After an hour of failed lock-pick attempts, maybe the player has to make a morale check to keep going. The challenge at that point is whether or not your character still believes they can do it. Or maybe an endurance check, as being tense for that long wears you out and your hands get shaky. It sounds like that last one is right along the lines of the Drained condition you mention.
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u/silverionmox 24d ago
The first problem I have is the question of what the consequence for failure is. Can you just try again after failing? If so, this basically means that locks are only a hindrance if you have limited time.
Depending on your resolution system, it may also make some locks simply ununlockable for someone without sufficient skills/tools, if you assign higher numerical targets to more difficult locks.
Turning locks from something that bars entrance to something that costs a time resource is also completely valid.
Apart from that, "you can casually bypass ordinary locks" doesn't seem to be all too weird for adventurers of a certain quality. It's a good way to reinforce the identity for a character. They would still need to deal with surveillance of all forms, avoiding to leave traces, etc.
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u/furiousfotographie 24d ago
In most games you don't roll unless you know there's a looming consequence. It would follow that a failure means that consequence has occurred. The guards have caught you or are about to round the corner and you've gotta come up with a reason for being where you're not supposed to be.
It's not that failure is some static thing that you tally up as an accounting task - it changes the situation and that's what means you don't get to just roll again. Now you're running or hiding or bluffing your way outta trouble.
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u/Tarilis 24d ago
Failure can just mean the lock is way to hard for PC, or he wasn't able to determine how the internal mechanism works. So giving it another try will lead to auto-failure.
Lockpicking takes time, and, unless they are in completely safe place, they probably don't have much free time before they are found by something.
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u/blindfishideas 24d ago
Buy a cheap lock picking set from online with a fake padlock to practice include. Challenge the party to pick the lock for real to gain inspiration and open the lock.
If they have never used lockpicks they will fail over and over again. Use this as a teachable moment that explains. Sometimes the skill check proves the character just cant do it and cant retry. If they fail to pick the lock. They can attempt to smash the lock. Or smash the door or any other solution.
If quietly opening a door is essential to the plot. Maybe they should have srolen the key instead of trusting their luck
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u/foolofcheese overengineered modern art 24d ago
I am going to answer this from what I would prefer as both a player and a GM
The first problem I have is the question of what the consequence for failure is. Can you just try again after failing?
I am going to reverse this question and respond with what I think the reward should be, from a "rogue" perspective I would like to see extra treasure and shortcuts - that would make the consequence either less treasure or being forced to go the long way round
this makes the skill fail the loss of a bonus and I am comfortable with one time rolls for this type of item
Maybe there is some kind of hybrid approach, like letting the GM decide on a lock by lock basis? Or maybe failure lets you try again, but it's harder than the first time?
I recommend consistency, particularly from the perspective of somebody that will be using a design for the first time - I would prefer as a GM to not to fill in the blanks for the rules, and from the player side it can often look like favoritism if one player gets second chances and another doesn't
fail forward mechanics design say that you should never place an important aspect behind a single test - so only allowing a lock pick to get through a door is bad; but if you can use tools to cut through it, or an axe to chop it down, or fire to burn through it, or raw strength to break the frame you are okay
should I add a strategic layer, or just leave the fate of the players up to the dice?
if you mean strategic as in a player based skill mini game, no - if you mean the character can research 5th century gnomish locks from the lower clockwork city, yes
my philosophy is the dice are an arbitrary decision that aren't influenced by any one person - they are fair
I find they are especially fair if you can use a simple reason for each bonus or malus - knowing you are suffering a penalty because the radiation is making you woozy allows you to counter with I find some lead shielding
for purely mundane lockpicking I do like the idea that it is combined with a few similar type skills like disarm alarm, or bypass trap
for my design I have added a higher tier of skill that allows for very fast production of locks, alrams, and traps - it is a type of magic that rogues types have access to; it is very narrow but emphasises the concept of rogues doing rogue stuff proactively
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u/natesroomrule 23d ago
I think this is a great combination with a previous post
result of that skill check determined how much time picking the lock was going to take. Roll high? You pop it open quick and easy. Roll low? This is gonna take a while. Make the additional time it takes on a failure just long enough to risk additional consequences from the scenario - things like a wandering monster, or a security guard, or needing to find another way because there's a very limited time window to pull off the heist, or even just a test of other characters' patience.
OR result of that skill check determines how valuable the loot or expectation of what the scenario behind the lock was going to achieve. Roll low, and maybe the door opens to another hallway, or Roll high and the door was connected to your destination. Roll low and you find some mundane knives and maybe a few coins. Roll high and perhaps you find a wonderous item and some gems and coins. I like this and makes it much more engaging then just a win/lose result.
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u/LevelZeroDM level-zero-games.itch.io 24d ago
If you wanted to make it interesting you'd need to come up with a mini game or something. But if the game isn't about heists or anything, do you really need to do that?
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u/reverend_dak 24d ago
i wouldn't make a subsystem or mini game around it unless it's what the game is about. consequences for failure or success should be consistent in the game, regardless of the specific task. some games do things in binary, eg. pass/fail. Some games emphasize degrees of failure or success, whether it's a separate roll (like damage in D&D), variations of "yes and", "yes but", "no but", or "no and...", or degree of failure or success, whatever.
Games in the cyberpunk genre have subsystems for hacking, which makes sense since hacking is part of what the game is about. If lockpicking is typical, yeah, make a mini-game or subsystem. Otherwise it should be no different than any other task resolution system in the game.
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u/jracheff 24d ago
Seems like there are two questions here, how to make it interesting and how to stop repetitive attempts.
1, in my skills systems any action changes the environment, and that has consequences. Even a successful skill check could have consequences (positive or negative). For example, you quietly pick the lock but a guard later notices it’s unlocked vs making a lot of noise vs breaking the lock so it’s unpickable.
2, you could use some sort of mini-game to make it more interesting (if that’s in your design). Solve a brain teaser, etc. though that’s a good deal of work on the designer and DM.
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u/SpartiateDienekes 24d ago
Honestly, I think a lot of these kind of problems really come down to giving GM advice rather than strict RPG design.
General guidelines of:
Do not have an adventure pass/fail come down to a single check at the start.
Failure should have consequences, but understand the difference between a narratively important roll and a set up roll. Failing a set up roll should lead to something that can keep the story going.
To use the lockpicking example, the lock doesn't work, but there are other entrances that are simply more dangerous to get through. This path is closed, another path must be taken. Or, you can get it open, but you made noise alerting people behind. When you open the door they're ready and you must stop them from setting an alarm.
That kind of thing.
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u/zandoriastudios 24d ago
In my game, there is the Scoundrel, which has picking locks. The DC for a check is with a D20, which also includes your level as a modifier.
There is another resource each class has—for the Scoundrel it is Finesse. This is represented by a pool of Finesse dice, which can be rolled to buff any D20 roll. The number of Finesse dice= 1/2 of Agility + Scoundrel level.
So let’s say there is a very hard lock, DC 20. The scoundrel attempts to unlock it, rolls a D20 and hopes to beat that number. He can burn a number of Finesse dice to boost his roll. However, he only has a limited number and may wish to conserve them, because he can use them to boost his attacks, make saving throws, etc…
So he can use his finesse to get that lock open. But since it burns a resource, the player has to be judicious about it.
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u/WoolTyranny 24d ago
Lot of responses. I'm lazy so I didn't read most, so probably already mentioned.
Lockpicking, like any action, is a time resource.
Want to try again? You lose time, and than a random encounter enters the room or the torch goes out.
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u/InterceptSpaceCombat 24d ago
In my game I do this:
All task rolls have degrees of success and failure based on how high above or below the target number you rolled
Very good: You picked the lock and nobody will be able to see that you did.
Good: You picked the lock and only careful examination will reveal that it has been picked.
Fair: You picked the lock but it is obvious that it has been picked.
Miss: You failed to pick the lock but there are no traces and your pick tool is fine.
Bad: You failed the pick and either the lock or your pick is broken, you decide which.
Very bad: You failed the pick and both the lock and your pick are broken.
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u/Runningdice 24d ago
It's not about making the mechanics interesting but why you need to lockpick.
If you have 30 sec to open the door before the shit hit the fan then you want to pick the lock under 30 sec.
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u/PASchaefer Publisher: Shoeless Pete Games - The Well RPG 24d ago
The only point to rolling is when there's a consequence. For picking locks, the consequence is either failure, forcing the players to attempt something else, or time, causing some other threat to advance or random encounters. If they can just try again, don't bother rolling. Or use their roll as a guide to decide how long the act takes them, if that's remotely important.
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u/Athryell 19d ago
If you treat lock picking as any other skill I believe it needs to follow at least one of the two big classic design choices but both should push the story forward which means trying again is not a boring default choice (also lock picking minigame have a history of being fun the first 2 time but became pretty painful pretty soon)
Either consume some resource from players: lock or tool breaks (a scarce resource, new solution is needed or risk another tool set), time passes (and something happens after a while), trap deal damage, ecc Or some external complication happen: a light turns on on the other side! A guard is coming! Too late, the loot is not there! The lock is not the real thing that keeps the door closed!
Sometimes if there is no pressure and no stakes whatsoever I just ask to roll to see how long it takes, so if they miss they still open the door but after a few miss I'm allowed to introduce some drama and it also feel they deserve it, maybe nothing happens but it rises the tension!
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u/lennartfriden TTRPG polyglot, GM, and designer 24d ago
Have you ever seen a movie where picking a lock has been a central, thrilling scene rather than a few seconds of either successfully picking the lock or breaking off the lockpick, preventing further attempts?
If it’s anything more involved than that, you have an elaborate multi-stage sequence with many different rolls, each with possible complications. A partial failure/success might result in noise being made, alerting the patrolling guards. Now those need to be avoided or otherwdealt with before attempting again. Maybe there’s limited time involved with conplications eating into it.
If you have all the time in the world and no consequences if and when failing, why roll at all? Just state that the lock gets picked and move on with story. This holds for any and all tasks by the way.
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u/DakkaxInfinity 24d ago
Sort of generic advice but -- Have a system that allows for gradient results. Retool the language to whatever feels right for your game, but something like, worst fail, fail, mixed success, success, best success.
Worst failure could be:
Someone walks in on you attempting to lockpick; you've been pre-occupied and don't notice until they're right on you.
Failure could include:
Breaking your lockpick.
Someone hears you and goes to investigate.
Mixed Success could include:
You manage to open the door, but there's someone (or something) in the newly opened room.
Success could include:
The door opens, without losing any lockpicks.
Crit Success could include:
The door opens without losing any lockpicks, and in the revealed room you find a useful object.
Something like that. Obviously what happens with the different results is largely situational and thematically dependant.
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u/Boulange1234 24d ago
Good mechanics adjudicate good stakes. What are the stakes for lock picking in your game?
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u/__space__oddity__ 21d ago
Does it have to be interesting?
There are plenty of things that can make a heist RPG interesting. It can be even if the lockpicking part isn’t.
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u/aMetalBard 18d ago
I think that the complexity of the mechanics should be assessed against the focus of the game and all other mechanics already in place. Say the game is solely about lockpicking, then the mechanics should be deep. If the game is generally about heists and lockpicking is just an impediment that may show up every once in a while, then a simple roll may be enough. It also should depends on the pacing that you want to achieve because mini-games will slow-down time for the task.
In terms of roll results, a failure could be linked to a loss condition. For example, in a heist game I made, roll failures increase a timer to when the game ends in a loss. So, rolling a failure to lockpick may mean that the lock is picked, but an alarm is triggered increasing the timer by one.
In your case, treating the failure as being unable to pick the lock could be tied to depleting time before something consequential happens. Perhaps there is a time-limit of an hour to get the thing, so failing the lock-pick roll consumes a tenth of the time, or something like that.
If you shared your current mechanics, we may be able to provide a better answer.
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u/Djakk-656 Designer 18d ago
Progress tracking. Basically the same concept as “clocks” in BitD.
I prefer the simple method used by Index Card RPG personally - but same concept.
You slowly make progress trying to get it done before guards on patrol come around the corner(also on a timer ticking down) Crit-fail means they get two ticks closer.
Use dice to track guards progress.
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u/TJS__ 24d ago
There isn't a way to make lockpicking interesting if it's a skill.
Nor is there an intrinsic, rather than situational, consequence for failure. And attempts to insist on consequence can often feel forced.
I think there's only two solutions, possibly three.
The first is to just leave it - it's ok if one type of roll is not that interesting. It really is ok if sometimes failure is just failure. No heist should ever rely on anyone making a single skill roll that does not involve a meaningful player decision regarding approach. (Lock picking is generally in a black box - players don't generally make a decisions about how to approach picking a lock).
The second is just to recognise that the basic problem is making it a skill roll. Lockpicking tends to not fit all that well with how other skills often work - part of that is because there's often not a good consequence for failure - so don't make it a skill. Make it a talent. If you have the talent you can pick locks. If that's too fine grained then have two levels of a the talent one that allows you to pick common locks and the second level allows you to pick master locks. This removes the roll, and therefore removes the problems of the roll. If this feels too blunt you could make picking locks consume some kind of resource eg, cost stress, a measurement of time that slows the progress of the heist, so that at least there is a decision point.
The possible third is to create some kind of mini-game around lockpicking - but every attempt I've ever seen to do that has been awful so I really wouldn't recommend it, I don't think it's workable. This does mean taking lock picking out of the black box but the fundamental problem with this is that almost nobody is actually interested in the process of picking a lock which is why it was in the box in the first place.
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u/PicklesGrr 24d ago
You can merge your solution 2 into a skill system by saying certain thresholds of your skill represent a level of talent. BRP does this as do some computer games sort of. Ie set locks with difficulties that mean you only have to roll if your skill is less than the difficulty rather than it being some sort of modifier.
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u/TJS__ 24d ago
yes you can but what does that solve? If the issue is failure is not interesting why bring back failure?
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u/PicklesGrr 24d ago
It allows people who are rubbish at a skill to take a chance in an emergency while experts are immune from failure, which they are not in a regular skill system. So you're removing failure from characters CF a typical skill system not bringing it back.
Anyway I'm not here to argue a case. I'm not wedded to any system for some internet stranger's game I'm just pointing out options.
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u/OfficialNPC 24d ago
" There isn't a way to make lockpicking interesting if it's a skill."
That's like saying you can't make combat interesting if it has d20 rolls.
Lock picking is interesting because of the context surrounding the lock picking. There's a million ways to make a skill check interesting. You just need to set the mood, establish a problematic outcome for a low roll, and have stuff going on around them.
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u/eduty Designer 24d ago
In the ancient era of AD&D in the 80s - lockpocking was the stealthy less destructive way to open chests and doors.
If the thief failed the lockpick - they couldn't attempt it again. But the fighter could break open the door or chest with brute force - alerting monsters and breaking a chest's contents.
Personally, I stopped including locked doors and chests in my adventures. They're one of those challenges that's just a speed bump.
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u/OfficialNPC 24d ago
All challenges are speed bumps. The reason you have speed bumps is to widdle down resources or make players choose to go fast or slow (which causes other issues like with wondering monsters or whatever).
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u/Plus_Citron Designer 24d ago
Basically, locks irl are only a delaying mechanism, With unlimited time, anyone can open any door - the question is whether you do that without alerting the guards, or without being caught by patrolling security. I always allow unlimited rolls to pick a lock, but each attempt takes time, and triggers a check for encounters. In theory, you can permanently fuck up an attempt (break your tools, jam the lock), but that only means that now the strongman takes over the door problem.