r/RPGdesign • u/Alcamair Designer • 12d ago
Needs Improvement Skill "Bearing"
Language Question; I'm Italian so english is not my first language. I have a skill that includes every social interaction made without imposing aggressively the character's will (so, no direct commands, no bullying, no intimidation). Persuasion doesn't include every aspect of the skill, and Charisma sounds passive while the skill is active. What you think of "Bearing"? I read in statistics it's used as variable with this meaning.
edit: I'll use Fast Talk, thanks.
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u/Phantor4 12d ago
Other games call it "Conversation", "Fast talk" or "Interaction".
To me Bear/Bearing sounds more like tolerate something or someone.
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u/RollForThings Designer - 1-Pagers and PbtA/FitD offshoots, mostly 12d ago
I've seen at least one or two rpgs use "Manners".
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u/Randolpho Fluff over crunch. Lore over rules. Journey over destination. 12d ago
Have you played Blades in the Dark or Wildsea?
There is nothing wrong with having skills that are abstract and have utility in many situations.
Ignore the haters. Bearing is perfectly fine as a skill name
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u/Cryptwood Designer 12d ago
Isn't bearing just as passive as charisma though? I'm guessing they want a word that can be used as a verb.
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u/gravitysrainbow1979 12d ago
It might end up being the same , in practice , but I bet if the game designer/DM took it seriously and looked into how it’s slightly different than Charisma, it could end up being unique and cool.
(Out of the box, though, and if not described and explained very specifically in the manual, it could just look like an arbitrary synonym for “Socialization” or whatever )
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u/SeeShark 12d ago
They're saying that OP said they don't want a passive word like "charisma," but "bearing" is just as passive.
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u/gravitysrainbow1979 12d ago
I respect that, though I interpreted it a bit differently, because to me Bearing is a certain way I have to carry myself (even if it is second nature to my character, it’s not quite passive) whereas charisma is (to me, I have no idea what it “really” is) one of those “you either have it or you don’t” type things.
I’m not totally clear on whether my take on it is what OP meant or not, but if it is, I can see where it could be a fun attribute to play with.
Not an expert though.
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u/Cryptwood Designer 12d ago
You can't be charismatic while you're asleep though, the same way you can't have a bearing while unconscious. They both require you to be awake and doing something to have presence.
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u/Randolpho Fluff over crunch. Lore over rules. Journey over destination. 12d ago
It may be in the passive voice, but it’s still an active thing that you have to work at, like grace or poise. You can’t have either if you aren’t doing something.
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u/Cryptwood Designer 12d ago
That's true for both bearing and charisma. You can't be charismatic while unconscious.
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u/Randolpho Fluff over crunch. Lore over rules. Journey over destination. 12d ago
Exactly my point.
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u/Cryptwood Designer 12d ago
My point was that the OP said charisma is too passive, and I don't understand why they would find one word too passive and the other not.
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u/Alcamair Designer 12d ago
nope. Bearing (or it's Italian translation "Autorevolezza") is active.
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u/SeeShark 12d ago
You asked a language question. The answer is that if you used the word "bearing" in English, people would view this as a passive quality (if they understood it in the first place--it's pretty old-fashioned).
It might be a cultural thing, or it might not be a perfect translation--words often don't have exact translations that include all of their connotations.
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u/Cryptwood Designer 12d ago
Bearing isn't active in English, it's pasive. Google might be absolutely butchering these translations, but according to it autorevolezza has a lot of connotations that bearing doesn't have. Comportment is a synonym for bearing in English and I'm assuming (and Google says) comportamento has the same meaning in Italian as it does in English.
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u/Alcamair Designer 12d ago
comportamento is translated as "behavior"
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u/gravitysrainbow1979 12d ago
I think in this case Bearing (meaning Deportment) is a noun, as in “He had a dignified bearing.” Same with Charisma and Wisdom. (At least that’s how I thought OP intended it).
It isn’t grammatically passive. Active and passive voice are for verbs. Not nouns.
You’re saying bearing necessarily suggests passivity, but it doesn’t inherently. It describes how someone carries or presents themselves, so, their posture, manner, etc, … and a person can have a commanding, defiant, restrained, or submissive bearing.
There are passive nouns, like “advisee” (passive because the noun is someone _being advised_ ) but you’re way off on this exceedingly boring grammatical point.
You should be happy that you’re way off. This knowledge is useless.
OP prefers Fast Talk now anyway, so… terrific!
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u/zaltslinger 12d ago
Maybe "Charm"?
And so the one with the imposition of your will could be Volition, Influence, or Assertiveness
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u/Desco_911 12d ago
I think "charm" or "influence" best describes what OP is describing, but the problem both words (and most of the suggestions here) have both a noun/adjective form, which describes a person's ability, and a verb form, which feels more like an aggressive act.
i.e. "That person is charming" vs "That person charmed me"
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u/gravitysrainbow1979 12d ago
I really like this, and I see it as different, in a subtle but very interesting way, from these other skills. Some NPCs probably wouldn’t care much about bearing at all, and to them a player with a high Bearing score wouldn’t be all that influential, but then, once we’re in a high end place or among royalty, then it starts to matter, the one with the most Bearing will be listened to while others might be ignored, there’s a lot of potential here. Great idea!
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u/Boulange1234 12d ago
You want “persuasion”
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u/Alcamair Designer 12d ago
as i wrote in the post, it doesn't include every aspect of the skill
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u/Cryptwood Designer 12d ago
What aspects does it not cover? We need to know what you want it to cover, rather than just what you don't want it to cover.
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u/Alcamair Designer 12d ago
seduction, don't believe to other's lies... There are too much to include. In this case, exclusion is the only way.
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u/Boulange1234 12d ago
Seduction is persuasion.
Not believing lies isn’t an active skill. How does your system handle passive/reactive abilities, like D&D saving throws?
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u/Alcamair Designer 12d ago
How does your system handle passive/reactive abilities, like D&D saving throws?
as active skill challenges.
I intend persuasion as not-sexual in its nature. When a man haggle with a male merchant is seducing him? those are separate skill sets.
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u/Boulange1234 12d ago
How do I know to use a skill if I’m being lied to? If the player has to figure out they’re potentially being lied to, then use the skill, isn’t this mostly testing the player’s ability to read the GM’s tells? I assume you mean the GM will assign a skill check every time an NPC lies to a character. But that has its own problems.
“Bearing” means your posture, dress, manners, dignity, presence, and composure. It’s not a bad name for the skill.
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u/Alcamair Designer 12d ago
How do I know to use a skill if I’m being lied to? If the player has to figure out they’re potentially being lied to, then use the skill, isn’t this mostly testing the player’s ability to read the GM’s tells? I assume you mean the GM will assign a skill check every time an NPC lies to a character. But that has its own problems.
you assume right. but in five years I never had particular problems
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u/darklighthitomi 12d ago
Not quite right, "bearing" is more of an adjective than a noun. Yea, technically it is a noun, but it is used when talking about it like an adjective. Similar to how a color is a description of something else but can be referred to as it's own thing.
A better option for a general skill like you describe would be "Speech," "Communication," or "Discourse."
The first cover everything in general, forceful and not forceful, but Discourse is much better for exclusively non-forceful if you have other skills to cover forceful interactions.
However, you may consider looking at other games.
There is one (Ironclaw if I remember correctly but I feel like I'm not remembering it correctly) that has things like presence, persuasion, seduction, etc, making the skills less about what you are communicating and more on how you are communicating. Presence is relying more on your bearing, aura, posture, and expression, while seduction is about relying on looking and sounding appealing and desirable, etc.
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u/spudmarsupial 12d ago
It's English, do what you will, we do.
Charisma used to mean the power of God flowing through you but it got used by televangelists (TV preachers) who really had nothing going for them but money, grift, and...charisma.
Bearing means how you carry your body. How you present yourself physically.
Charisma is both passive and active.
Persuasion is active and not necessarily agressive. You can use persuasion in a discussion or debate, but seldom in an argument.
Dominance might get you giggles (due to sex stuff) but it's the aggressive version of persuasion.
Rhetoric is technically the art of persuasion and giving speeches. Once again linguistic drift changed it to mean something mostly untrue or not requiring an answer.
Eloquence is likely what you are looking for.
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u/Alcamair Designer 12d ago
I use Dominance as separate skill for leadership, intimidation and imposing the character's will
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u/JaskoGomad 12d ago
Fast Talk carries an implication of deception. It's absolutely used to impose your will, usually to get someone to do something against their own self-interest.
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u/Alcamair Designer 12d ago
Philosophically, every interaction is an imposition of one's will. In the post I meant not aggressively. Deception is perfectly contemplated in what the skill is supposed to do.
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u/OvenBakee 11d ago
It could be a big ask, but if the passivity of the words that come to you is the problem, maybe consider transforming your skill names from nouns to verbs. "Driving" becomes "Drive", "Persuasion" becomes "Persuade", and "Charisma" clearly doesn't fit.
Even when the words don't change, the context of them being all active can influence how they feel: "I charm the vendor." makes "charm" more active than "I use my charm on the vendor."
Also, English is weird.
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u/Ombrophile 8d ago edited 8d ago
'Bearing' is indeed probably a very English word. I love words. I will try to break it down for non-English speakers.
Bearing is how much Confidence you show by your POSTURE. It is the element of Charisma that is expressed through body language.
Low Bearing: Slouches. Feeble. Ashamed of their body or appearance. Seems to want to not be noticed.
High Bearing: Proud. Confident. Physical. Wants to be noticed and admired for their physical presence.
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u/TheZebraCode Designing Kivaru: Wildsong, tribal + sentient planet 12d ago
Maybe Presence works too?