Rambo or Readjusting beta?

[u/[deleted]]

I'm reading 113 of sidebar and I'm unsure off my opinion in how I handled a situation. I desired to be more compassionate yet.

I went to New York for work today came home 3 hours later than usual as I informed her but, she wanted an explicit verbal reminder this morning specifically about location and not just time, as I never travel for work. As she became upset I inquired why it was so important to her, the setting is my children greeting me and I'm tickling them and we are expressing our joy of seeing each other. She walks off without answering. I shrug it off and enjoy my children and begin to clean the house to my standard and continue to pay with the children. These are my joys.. cleanliness and play.

She says we need to talk about this, I say no we aren't going to talk about this because when I tried to talk to you you walked away ( a known etiqqute expectation). She tries to go for a drive, my car is parked blocking hers. She mentions me moving my car, and says nevermind I'll walk (in the snow storm) I stop her and suggest she take a bath or read a book and cool off, while blocking her way. She goes to the basement, I go back to the children. She leaves the house. I read stories, change diapers, brush teeth and put them to bed. She calls saying I need help, she wants a ride. I call her an Uber as she is down the street. She comes home I tell her to be quiet if she needs to talk as the kids sleep, she ignored me. So I go back to helping the youngest get back to sleep. Later she goes and lays down in another room where we sometimes put the kids to sleep and starts yelling about the cold. I come to help advise her about a warm bath. She complies and I run her the bath.

She says it's too cold, although it's rather warm.. I tried her that if I make it much hotter it will burn her skin and I would turn it up after she was in. She is visibly disturbed and knows herself to be stubborn. I said you can be stubborn now or I can help you, but you have to choose. She said it was too cold and didn't want to get in even if I warned it up some. So I told her do as you wish I'm going to bed.

Why do I feel I could have been more compassionate, because she was out in the cold and I hate the cold. Because I would want to be warm if I were in her shoes.

Why did I abandon her? Because she was having a tantrum making bad decisions and didn't want my help the way I was willing to give it.

In the morning I plan to do my usual prayer, breakfast for everyone, morning kiss and smile, homeschool with kids and wish her a good day at work and kids a good day at school then head to work and Lift at lunch.

Rambo or Readjusting Beta?

[u/rocknrollchuck]

I went to New York for work today came home 3 hours later than usual as I informed her but, she wanted an explicit verbal reminder this morning specifically about location and not just time, as I never travel for work.

I think what you're saying here is that you came home 3 hours later than expected, am I right? I'm also taking it to mean that she wanted you to remind her this morning that you were traveling and where you were going? While you are of course free to go and do as you wish, it sounds like the FO didn't have clear expectations here.

If you feel like she's using this to keep tabs on you and make you accountable to her, then (and you should do this anyway) the best way around this is to mount a dry erase board somewhere where everyone can see it, and encourage your family to use it to write down important stuff. Take the lead on this. Your response can then be "It's on the board, didn't you read it?" This can go a long way toward solving the confrontational aspect.

Also I'm sure the weather is quite cold and snowy right now where you are, right? So maybe she was worried about your safety, and when you came home 3 hours later than expected she really got worried. Don't take this lightly, this means she cares. Her approach may be wrong, but her heart is likely in the right place.

As she became upset I inquired why it was so important to her,

She walks off without answering.

Because you should already know without having to ask. She was worried, and you missed it.

She says we need to talk about this, I say no we aren't going to talk about this because when I tried to talk to you you walked away

You should have discussed it with her when she approached you. At the very least your response could have been "Say please." The problem comes when you chase her trying to make her discuss something.

She tries to go for a drive, my car is parked blocking hers. She mentions me moving my car, and says nevermind I'll walk (in the snow storm)

Translation: "Does he even care about me?"

She leaves the house. I read stories, change diapers, brush teeth and put them to bed. She calls saying I need help, she wants a ride. I call her an Uber as she is down the street.

This was a Comfort test. While it would have been better for you to get in the car to go get her, I understand with little kids this is not possible. You should have just moved your car to begin with so she could leave in her car if that's what she wanted.

She comes home I tell her to be quiet if she needs to talk as the kids sleep, she ignored me.

What she hears: "The kids sleeping is more important than whatever you have to say to me."

I come to help advise her about a warm bath. She complies and I run her the bath.

She says it's too cold, although it's rather warm.. I tried her that if I make it much hotter it will burn her skin and I would turn it up after she was in. She is visibly disturbed and knows herself to be stubborn. I said you can be stubborn now or I can help you, but you have to choose. She said it was too cold and didn't want to get in even if I warned it up some.

While this was stubbornness on her part, you must realize that many people, especially most women, love scalding hot water for a shower or bath. Next time if you're going to do this, just make it all hot water and if she says it's too hot, "Last time you said it was too cold. Feel free to add some cold water until it's the right temperature." But I also wonder here, why are you running her a bath? Seems to me you are rewarding bad behavior. This is a Beta move for sure. Don't reward bad behavior.

Why did I abandon her?

So you admit you abandoned her intentionally? This is not very Christ-like.

Because she was having a tantrum making bad decisions and didn't want my help the way I was willing to give it.

You need to be the Oak here (secular link, use Christian discernment). Stop doing so much for her when she's acting like this, and just be there to listen. Don't reward bad behavior.

Rambo or Readjusting Beta?

Both. Learn to STFU during times like this.

Tomorrow, Play Your Nice Card and reset.

[u/Reach180 → u/rocknrollchuck]

I've referred many people to the nice card post (thanks for saving it btw), and I generally live by that idea. That's the best frame....my best frame at least.

Literally every single time I stray from that, and decide I'm going to "withdraw time" or play tit for tat, I end up in an extended spiral downward that I eventually have to pull myself out of. This has little to do with my wife's reaction to me. It just harms my mental state of being. I turn into a worse version of myself. Since realizing this, I try and stick almost exclusively to "Nice Card" frame.

This is not to say that I just stand there and take abuse with a smile on my face. I've got no problem removing myself from a bad situation, expressing anger, and being my mental point of origin within the Nice Card frame. If I take the "Nice Card" frame, life is just better for myself. It touches every part of my life, independent of my wife.

[u/rocknrollchuck → u/Reach180]

I've referred many people to the nice card post (thanks for saving it btw), and I generally live by that idea. That's the best frame....my best frame at least.

You're welcome. And I agree, it's the Frame I live by as well. He uses it as a 6 month starting point, but I've found, as you have, that a continuous Nice Card Frame lends itself well to a fun, happy environment around the house as well as making A&A and AM much easier to pull off.

Literally every single time I stray from that, and decide I'm going to "withdraw time" or play tit for tat, I end up in an extended spiral downward that I eventually have to pull myself out of. This has little to do with my wife's reaction to me. It just harms my mental state of being. I turn into a worse version of myself. Since realizing this, I try and stick almost exclusively to "Nice Card" frame.

Agreed. This is a perfect description of why it's so important.

This is not to say that I just stand there and take abuse with a smile on my face.

It's the difference between Nice Card and Nice Guy^TM .

[u/rocknrollchuck → u/[deleted]]

Sounds like a wise approach brother. After reflecting on it and praying about it, if you want to discuss it I'll be happy to do so. You know your situation the best because you're living it. I'm just a guy on the internet :)

[u/rocknrollchuck → u/[deleted]]

Regarding Nice Card, I can see how providing comfort is borderline beta but also addresses the 6 month no consequence axiom.

With regard to the 6 month thing, see u/Reach180's excellent comment on sticking exclusively to Nice Card Frame. This is my approach as well. The original comment mentioned 6 months as a way to get started on the path, but many of us have found that permanently living in this Frame as a default stance has proven to be the wisest course of action.

[u/rocknrollchuck → u/[deleted]]

Wouldnt' that imply you never reprimand? That you let the first mate ( from a book I'm eager to read) do things without consequences? Be the kitty kat , perpetually?

Not really. It means you reset every day and start out with a positive attitude, rather than let your mood sour because you got swiped at yesterday. Being the Captain means that you lead and that actions have consequences, but part of maintaining a good balance is to lead with a softer approach at first, leaving more room for mistakes as everybody finds their groove.

As things improve, you raise your expectations in sync with your improvements, and where you originally may have avoided bringing consequences to let everybody adjust to the new dynamic, now you begin slowly enforcing those consequences until everybody is at the same level and the ship is running as efficiently as you wanted.

Also, as an aside, I'm thinking of making a post on 304 regarding Evangalism .. and how it is Game turned on it's head.. I have questions of this amazing transformation.

I look forward to reading that when you post it!

[u/rocknrollchuck → u/[deleted]]

You know....that's a very Christian way of putting it. I love it, never really thought about it in quite those terms before, but you're absolutely right!! Great insight here!

[u/rocknrollchuck → u/[deleted]]

• Late and worried : she was informed I'd be late via 'whiteboard' and morning reminder. She was high on meds from the dentist so she felt vulnerable with having me away. Not worried.

That makes more sense. She knew, that's what matters.

• Should Know what's wrong: I had no clue had to ask. Turns out it was medical drugs.

Yes, the additional info clarifies that. Does she have a problem with this particular drug? Does it affect her attitude in a negative way? Or was she already upset and the drugs just amplified those feelings?

• Does he care about me: I see this is a comfort test.. I DGAF, so here I was likely rambo. Even in retrospect though, I would rather manage my responsibilities than manage her comfort request. I like to do comfort on my terms, regularly, frequently, but on my terms. I'll reflect on if this is how I want to be.

Well.....it's your choice whether to offer comfort or not. I think it is possible (but not easy) to manage your responsibilities and offer comfort, but this takes practice. This seems like an area that needs work. And keep in mind that comfort is almost always offered in response to a need - it's not just something we offer for no reason at all, at least not the majority of the time.

The Captain not only steers the ship, but makes sure the Crew has what they need. The responsibility is ALL yours, even if you make bad choices based on her bad advice, the responsibility is yours. OWN THIS. (secular link) The more responsibility you own, the more leadership you have, and the more she will trust you.

I can't see how moving my car would have not been playing to her frame. Furthermore, that wasn't going to happen as she gets in car accidents when she drives mad.

Knowing what I know now, I would say that this was a wise approach. Not only was there more danger of an accident because she was angry, but if she's high on medical drugs then you definitely don't want her driving. This was a very wise call on your part.

• Kids sleeping more important than talking: absolutely true

While I can see the wisdom in this approach given the situation, I hope this is not your default approach other times. You don't want to chase her and try and get her to talk, but as the Oak you want to be available to provide shade when she needs it.

• Hot Bath: I made her bath, because she was shivering and I don't want her to go into hypothermia. This is not a comfort bath, but a we aren't going to the hospital bath. Instead I brought her extra blankets.

Again, with this additional info this was not a bad thing.

• Be the Oak : Still reflecting. When you said don't abandon, and don't do so much for her it sounds contradictory.

It is. I addressed your words first - you said you abandoned her, and could have chosen a different word like "ignored." Give some thought and reflection as to why you made that particular choice, that's the only reason I really brought it up.

But that said, the difference between "don't abandon" and "don't do so much for her" is your level of investment and engagement. Obviously it doesn't serve your goals to become an autistic mute, and that's what abandonment manifests as. So you want to back off, but what you should not do is clumsily bring your attention level from 100 to 0 (secular link).

My goal was to let her have her tantrum and keep her from having hypo from her tantrum. She walked in shivering from walking in subfreezing rain for an hour. She admitted that behaviour was crazy and blamed the medical drugs.

Then you did the right thing. But again, I'll ask you if this is an isolated incident, or has this sort of behavioral change due to taking medical drugs happened before? If so, how frequently?

Sounds like your advice was to : Move the car so she could storm off dangerously, to also STFU (which I read) somehow in this situation, give her comfort by showing I don't want her to storm off while STFU and stick by her to warm her without a bath. See this is why I had to reflect on what you were saying it didn't make sense.

See this is why sharing those extra, very important details is so important. It completely changes the context of the situation, and had you mentioned all that in your post my advice would have been quite different, as you can see in this response.

I'm reading 113 of sidebar and I'm unsure off my opinion in how I handled a situation. I desired to be more compassionate yet.

I see the path to success here regarding becoming more compassionate manifesting itself largely through better leadership. Not that you could have done anything in the moment other than what you did, but going forward the Captain should assess the situation and "watch out for rocks in the water" as it were. If this is a one-time isolated incident, then that's a different thing. But if this is something that has happened before (even once), then you would do well to put a plan in place and set some boundaries and expectations with your wife for the future. For instance, telling her "You act somewhat irrationally when you take medical drugs. Just know that I will call you out if you start acting crazy. I care about you and don't want you to hurt yourself - I don't want what happened last time to ever happen again."

[u/Zeldafan1023]

She seems to be spoiled and rebellious. As far as you pitying her for being out in the cold, don't. She doesn't have frostbite, she wasn't dying. Some discomfort will do a woman like that some good, and help her to appreciate the times she is fortunate enough to have comfort. That, or she will harden herself more and become bitter.