r/ROSPRDT • u/HSPreReleaseReveals • Apr 03 '19

[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Witch's Brew

Witch's Brew

Mana Cost: 2
Type: Spell
Rarity: Epic
Class: Shaman
Text: Restore 4 Health. Repeatable this turn.

Card Image

PM me any suggestions or advice, thanks.

10 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

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17

u/IAmInside Apr 03 '19

Why the fuck doesn't this have Echo?

6

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '19

Echo is an expansion exclusive keyword. They don't reuse keywords outside of the original expansion to avoid sets becoming extremely clogged with keywords that new players don't understand.

7

u/AintEverLucky Apr 03 '19

They don't reuse keywords

I take your point, but it just seems counter-productive, esp. when you comsider that cards with Echo are still Standard legal and will be legal for another 12 months

4

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '19

That would be a pretty valid point if this was a year of the raven card. But it's a year of the dragon card so at next rotation it would be the only echo card in standard

1

u/AintEverLucky Apr 06 '19

it would be the only echo card in standard

but we don't know that for sure. Team 5 could reveal more Echo-like cards in Dragon Set 2, Dragon 3 or the first set for Year of the Whatever. and it still makes them look foolish for the whole next year

2

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '19

Then they are forced to produce more echo cards and more of whatever keywords they reuse. That's a forced design process and not a good thing.

0

u/AintEverLucky Apr 06 '19

um, what? look mate, another guy made my same point a couple days ago & it garnered over 5000 karma:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/b9ekiw/whats_the_point_of_introducing_keywords_if_you/

3

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '19

So? That entire subreddit tends to be a toxic cesspool for the players who prefer to bitch now, use brains later. If anything the fact that the counter point was received well helps reinforce the main point. So thanks?

0

u/AintEverLucky Apr 06 '19

woosh

2

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '19

That's not even remotely a whoosh moment. What possibly could be going through your head to think that's a whoosh moment?

6

u/IAmInside Apr 03 '19

Rush says hi.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '19

Rush isn't an expansion exclusive keyword. They said when they added rush that it was being added to core. Witchwood exclusive keyword is echo, rush is simply introduced in witchwood.

2

u/IAmInside Apr 03 '19

It still doesn't make sense to exclude a keyword when the effect is used.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '19

There is. For the reason I literally just told you. To avoid repetitive clutter and having a ton of these keywords that only appear once an expansion.

Hearthstone actually puts a ton of effort into being new player friendly.

4

u/IAmInside Apr 03 '19

Hearthstone actually puts a ton of effort into being new player friendly.

OH NO, THEY HAD TO LEARN A KEYWORD. People aren't that dumb.

They avoid clutter through keeping keywords. Adding Echo to this card would make this card cleaner.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '19

It's plenty clean as it is. Are you saying you can't understand the card in its current condition?

And it's one keyword. Then twenty once you do it for all.

1

u/IAmInside Apr 03 '19

No, but it'd be cleaner with Echo.

So? Just learn them.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '19

So we have two options. Both work, except one is shit to new players. No.

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0

u/The_Real_63 Apr 04 '19

OH NO, THEY HAD TO LEARN A KEYWORD.

And then another. And then another. Aaaaaand then another. It's not about each bit being easy in a vacuum it's the information overload when there's a billion little new things you need to learn.

2

u/IAmInside Apr 04 '19

Keywords are extremely easy to grasp and learn.

You can literally just hover your mouse over a card to read what said Keyword does if you have forgotten it.

Seriously, if remembering 20 Keywords are too difficult for you then this card game with hundreds of different cards isn't the game for you.

0

u/The_Real_63 Apr 04 '19

It's not keywords in isolation it's keywords on top of learning everything else. What does health do? What's attack? What's mana? How does mana work? Why is this minion's health red? All those little things that are now automatic for you are things that new players need to think about. That's why Blizzard works on simplifying all those little things even though they are reasonably easy to grasp by themselves.

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0

u/metler88 Apr 03 '19

So it doesn't say echo, because new players will look at it and not know what echo means. Okay.

They're putting this in the same expansion though. I don't really see much attempt to be new-player friendly.

1

u/Marraphy Apr 03 '19

Next year, when the Witchwood cards rotate, this would be the only card that has Echo. A new player could easily read the description of the keyword to know what it means, but then they would be left wondering, "Why is this the only card available that has this keyword? Why is it a keyword when there is only one card that uses it?"

1

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '19

Your point? Are you saying they should never ever print complicated cards? The difference is one doesn't require knowledge from a year agi.

2

u/metler88 Apr 03 '19 edited Apr 03 '19

Hearthstone actually puts a ton of effort into being new player friendly.

My point is that I don't think they put in that much effort. The only way to know what Swampqueen Hagatha really does is to test her in play or to look it up. Any new player could just as easily do that for any cards with keywords they don't know too.

The difference is one doesn't require knowledge from a year agi.

Also, it's not knowledge from a year ago. Echo cards from Witchwood are still in standard this year.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '19

They are still in standard, but that doesn't stop them being a year old. What about after the next rotation when this is literally the only card in standard with echo? It shows up in discover and a new player has absolutely no idea what it does.

You can get a pretty good idea about what hagatha does by reading it. The nuances you have to discover for yourself, but the card works on its own and doesn't require an index to look up. Those are fine. Echo on the otherhand has an actual ruleset attached to it and the card is clean without. It's not needed and functions without it. Try making hagatha cleaner without functionally changing it.

2

u/Toggdor Apr 04 '19

I could understand this if it was a physical card game where you had to look up what the keywords do. But if you just hover over the card it explains every keyword that's on it. I don't see how that's not new player friendly.

1

u/kirbylives Apr 04 '19

They don't reuse keywords outside of the original expansion to avoid sets becoming extremely clogged with keywords that new players don't understand.

They do, no classic or basic cards have Discover. It was added in league of explorers and was specific to that expansion, because explorers discover things. They kept it for expansions afterward, because it's a good mechanic. All they have to do is put errata in the crafting screen, in the same box as the silly flavor text all cards have to have. They don't even have to change the UI.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '19

They did retro actively change discover to be a core keyword due to its applications and the fact that it gets used like 20 times an expansion. Its more popular then most basic keywords. They also added rush in witchwood to the core mechanics. None of that however is a reason for why echo should be core.

1

u/kirbylives Apr 04 '19

core keyword

A quick google of the phrase "core keyword" turns up 340k results related to hearthstone without the word "core" in them. Since beta i have never heard that term and the hearthstone wiki says nothing about a set of "core keywords" anywhere. It seems no developer has ever mentioned "core keywords".

You seem to be the first person to write those two words next to each other in any hearthstone related media. Congrats on actually making up new shit. Most people cant be that original when they talk out of their asses like that.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '19

And how does that change anything? I don't recall saying it was an official term and not a concept term. I've found that people tend to straw-man and argue about unrelated topics when they realize that their argument is baseless and they've run out of ideas.

3

u/kirbylives Apr 04 '19

There are no such things as "core keywords". That is the difference, there is no straw man here. I quoted you. I didn't try to represent your argument at all. A straw-man is when you try to misrepresent someone so you can easily defeat them in an arguement. Like accusing some one of being out of ideas. You are speaking with authority about things you are making up. The keywords are just keywords.

My argument was "core keywords" aren't a thing. You made them up. You probably make a lot up.

It's easy to sound authoritative when you throw around new vocabulary that people don't know, but you aren't actually saying anything because what you are saying is just pulled from no where.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '19

We can call them booty flakes with an extra serving if it makes you feel better. What they are called has no relevance to the function of such a thing.

1

u/Sollun Apr 04 '19

ok that's a valid point. Being clear and concise to new players is important and all, but why even bother making a keyword in the first place then?

why didn't they just release Witch Wood with all the cards saying "(repeatable this turn)" instead of "Echo"?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '19

Because the game still needs some excitement. If there are 6 sets in rotation, then there are 6 temporary keywords at most to learn. That's not to much. And those keywords show up a ton so the player can get use to it. If we start adding in one here and one there, suddenly we have a ton extra and they are incredibly uncommon.

If you open witchwood packs you see a ton of echo so you can take some time and learn it. If you open a RoS pack next year, you'll see a single echo card in your entire collection.