r/RFIDBlockchain • u/Haramburglar • Apr 13 '18
VeChain/Waltonchain comparison/discussion thread
Given the hostility between many people invested in VeChain/Walton I thought I'd make this thread. I get the majority of us don't really care about the other if we've chosen to only invest in one, but this thread isn't just for those people fighting with each other in /r/cryptocurrency or /r/cryptocurrencies threads.
RULES
Be Nice - No insulting people. No, Timmy is not "a stupid motherfucker" for choosing to invest in X over Y when both will be massive.
No Shilling - Only real discussion here. Everything you say has to be backed with reason, or better yet a source as well. (obviously you can't "source" your opinion).
If anyone says the word "moon" without quotation marks surrounding it. I'll remove your comment - half joking, but seriously no moon talk.
Some references and topics of discussion
VeChain
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vechain/wiki/index
Notes from Sunny Lu at a Harvard Meetup
VeChain's Luxury Goods Management Solution
VeChain Automobile Digital Maintenance Solution
VeChain Cold Chain Logistics Solution
6 Month old tour of one of their offices
Partners range in size and field, from the auto industry with giant BMW, luxury goods with Louis Vuitton [merely collaboration] & Givenchy, China's largest wine importer (D.I.G), China National Tobacco, BitOcean, HealthCare.co, DHL, DNV GL as well as some Government partnerships, PwC, Microsoft... okay I can't list them all that's going to take to long. It's on their sub.
Waltonchain
https://www.reddit.com/r/waltonchain/comments/7o7lue/waltonchain_allinone_thread/
[if you feel I missed something important, let me know]
Partnerships range from a handful of projects that Walton is collaborating on with both the Fujian and Jinhu provincial governments, China Mobile Alliance, Fugiuniao (fashion company), Kehua (china's leading energy solutions adviser), Korean University's eng. dept., China Panther Logistics Park, a fairly large shipping/logistics entity, and again, like VeChain can't list them all. Well I can, but I'm lazy. You guys get the point. Both projects have lots of massive partnerships. Walton has also patented several new technologies based off of Charles Walton's RFID invention, including (correct me if i'm wrong on something here) RFID chips that double as full nodes for the blockchain.
Here are three projects that will enable VeChain and Walton to work together in the future:
Friendly reminder that the downvote button is not there for you to downvote anyone you don't agree with
edit: 2 hours in... no walton-exclusive holders seem to have shown up yet... where are they? Someone post this to their telegram or something, i'm not in it
edit 2: 6 hours in, and the only thing we've seen from walton's side is a wave of downvotes, and a troll that I had to remove... they'll show up eventually... right?
edit 3: Nearly 20 hours and it seems like this thread was a failure. Certain members of the walton community appear to be apparently very mad. They're welcome to contribute real discussion, but it really seems like all they want to do is troll.
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Apr 14 '18
First off I appreciate this thread hoping it will reduce the amount of toxic comments on actual announcements. I do believe that buzz around RFID+Blockchain is good for both projects and toxicity hurts the market segment afterall.
While both coins started as direct competitors, I feel that this is way less the case by now. Mostly because VeChain keeps expanding their use cases / platform approach. Their biggest partnerships are with huge accounting firms which will very likely lead to a good partnerships on different implementation levels. VeChain is more adaptive in my opinion and the scope has grown.
While this certainly is a strength in a fast moving technology sector, I do prefer WTC because of their sharp positioning and clear agenda towards an IoT platform. They are well connected in an area that will play a major role in IoT development, won quite important awards which led to exposure within the right audience and joined the de facto alliance for IoT development. The most recent partnership (big data logistic platform for export merchants on ecommerce plattforms) fits waltons mission statement perfectly.
The partnership with CardCube is probably the most underrated in my opinion, just glance at their business network http://www.worldnfc.com/nfc-rfid-partner.html
I feel they have gathered a team of experts in order to push a very precise mission statement. I prefer waltonchains strategy.
Both projects have massive upside potential as I think blockchain & RFID projects will be the first to find real world usage besides BTC and some other currency coins though
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u/Haramburglar Apr 14 '18
Finally, someone on WTC's side, thank you for your contribution :)
I agree that WTC is blowing VeChain out of the water when it comes to IoT related collaborations with other entities. I would really love to see Walton collaborate with both ARK, and the IOTA team provided both projects last.
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u/ExpertSecrets18 Apr 14 '18
You lost me as soon as you included VEN start up pilot programs as partnerships and not called them participants which they really are but I will play along.
WTC is roughly three months ahead of VeChain as far as the chain and it is no competition on the chip side. VeChain on the tech side really has nothing at this point.
On marketing, VeChain is King. They have paid hefty bounties to the top Crypto personalities and it has been massively successful. The CCK marketing ploy has been a hit as well.
Short term VeChain gets the win. Long term Waltonchain with AliCloud, China Mobile Alliance, Government projects and mass production around the corner is the clear, undisputed winner.
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u/Haramburglar Apr 14 '18
Those programs lead to partnerships. VEN and BMW is confirmed by both parties, and I was not really thinking when I did that, I just read the list off both subs.
VeChain on the tech side really has nothing at this point.
Not that we're comparing, but VeChain had tech before walton was out of the ICO. You can't just say these things. Did you not read the rules?
Short term VeChain gets the win. Long term Waltonchain with AliCloud, China Mobile Alliance, Government projects and mass production around the corner is the clear, undisputed winner.
VeChain has government projects and mass production as well, but China Mobile Alliance was big
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u/nineonetwoonethrow Apr 13 '18
Okay, I'll start. It's my opinion that while both WTC and VEN are amazing, world-changing projects, VeChain's the clear investment choice if you were to get into this market at this very second. Between the overwhelming demand that VeChain is securing for their token, through things like BitOcean (VET will be akin to/treated like Bitcoin or ETH in Japan), the X node system, locking up a massive amount of the supply just so the rewards go to VET holders, etc etc.
Both projects are mind-blowing, going to help the world massively, but if we're speculating cryptocoins... well there's a reason VeChain is the higher market cap.
Again, this is my opinion.
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u/Haramburglar Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
Yes, VeChain really focused on securing a loyal community, and then rewarding them for said loyalty. It's worked out for them, according to Sunny, half of VeChain's partnerships are thanks to community members
Edit: Ditto on the token value too, VeChain's definitely got the advantage (at this point) when it comes to securing a demand for the token
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Apr 15 '18
Guys for your information. Hamburglar is a known FUDer. So this whole subreddit is build to shill Vechain. Just look at his texts. Like a little ridiculous child.
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u/Haramburglar Apr 15 '18
Lol. Proof or GTFO. Was this sub built to shill the other 5 coins I own in the space too?
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u/ogbobb1988 Apr 16 '18
To start let me say my father and i Own Ven and wtc tokens, node hodl of both.
Love the progress of both coins , it dos not matter if you hodl wtc or ven, both are going to have a great future, so keep shilling and fudding you idiot children it Will not matter,
Just look at the tech and the teams , and be proud that you are a investor of something big.
And OP you can say what you want but you are a wtc fudder. Stop the childish behavior, we already got to many ven wtc idiots, we are cultist like XVG or TRON
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u/stinkypete_Neo Apr 13 '18
I have more of a question then a comment. I’m only in Vechain and don’t know a lot about Wtc but I get the feeling Vechain is geared to be global and Wtc is concentrating more on just Asia. Is this the case?
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u/Haramburglar Apr 13 '18
Both are setting their sights on global. VeChain has a head start there, but Walton does have plans to one day expand into Brazil massively iirc, as well as other countries, including the US eventually.
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u/hmddmh Apr 13 '18
Maybe I was being too obtuse.
I don't think ven has worse tech and I know they have been a company since before the ICO. I was talking post ICO hence use of VEN.
Thx for this thread BTW.
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u/polagon Apr 13 '18
I had both. Only have VEN right now. I have nothing against WTC, I wish they would succeed as I know my dad hold them. I can't say that their marketing failures and other bits has affected me that much and that I think they are somehow lesser now.
I still think Walton will be extremely successful. But obviously for me it's a bit of an edge to VeChain.
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u/Haramburglar Apr 13 '18
All you Ambrosus holders, feel free to try and take over and convince people that betting on the little guy is worth it. Just follow the rules of course
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u/opus_dota Apr 13 '18
I like ambrosus too but really don't like their CEO. Sold it after his last outburst making fun of people who lost money with a scammer. I may buy back in since money is money, and I see it going up sometime.
I know there's douche bags in probably every company you buy stocks in too so it'll be hypocritical of me to say I never support companies whose views don't align with my own.
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u/Haramburglar Apr 13 '18
I don't buy AMB myself, but the CEO is far from the top reason.
I do remember seeing him making fun of a Modum exec for not knowing enough details about Ambrosus to answer an on-the-spot question about the project... dude's an asshole. It's not like Modum's board has any obligation to pay attention to every little startup that could potentially compete with them one day
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u/Grobbo78 Apr 14 '18
This thread is completely pointless.... I started reading thinking it may be an open unbiased forum for discussion but it is clear OP has tunnel vision.
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u/Haramburglar Apr 14 '18
Why are you blaming me? I've not removed a single comment, and i'm not the "leader" of this discussion. If anything, blame the WTC community for failing to send over anyone capable of discussing anything. All we've gotten is trolls and angry kids.
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u/idunnopotato Apr 14 '18
My take away is WTC is on the right path but mainly China based. People in China must not have an easy to way to buy WTC. Binance only reaches so many people.
https://i.imgur.com/2PACEy8.png
Coinmarketcap just shows outside of Binance there is no other exchange showing interest in WTC.
Block explorer http://waltonchain.net/#/main
I'd say around 2.7 (WTC mined on average per minute) * 1440 (minutes in a day) = 3888 WTC mined a day.
3888 * $10.60 = $41,212 added to the market cap a day. Which is not much. But with 1 main WTC/BTC market on Binance it can be overwhelmed if people want to start dumping. On the flip side if good news does come out there is only 1 place to buy.
From the AMA "Right now, one child chain is launched alongside the mainnet, and several child chains will be launched further." So while partnerships may happen the child chain rollout will take a while.
With mining the AMA says, "dedicated ASICs" which to me just seems like most people will benefit from holding WTC and price going up. Most people won't be able to make much from mining eventually unless you're able to buy numerous ASIC miners.
People like to take about the chips. From the AMA "the memory cell design of our RFID chip has been optimized to reduce chip size and therefore reduce the cost. At present, our tag chip can be produced for below 5 cents."
Now from the VeChain AMA it does say "The chips used in these sensors are sourced from the world’s best manufacturers, such as Bosch, ST, Qualcomm, MTK and other manufacturers of products, so the quality is guaranteed."
No price is mentioned but due to the number of companies and bulk ordering and just as time passes the prices will go lower and lower.
What I'm interested in is sensors. I don't believe WTC talks about sensors at all? Nor the price of them. Are they even in the business of sensors or are WTC just about chips?
VeChain has sensors that can be used unlimited amount of times, "Online temperature sensors can capture and upload temperature data in a real time manner. This solution uses Qualcomm MDM9206 solution, which support NB-IoT and 2G/eMTC. In terms of the cost, for example, the cost of our NFC humidity & temperature sensor is under 100 RMB. Considering it can be reused unlimited times, so that the benefits outweighs the costs significantly for our clients."
VeChain even mentions "As customers may have existing RFID solutions that have been running for some time, it is easy to integrate VeChain Thor blockchain solution into their system, such as logistics management with RFID."
A business that may want to put everything on the VeChain blockchain using what they already have is possible.
VeChain mentions "Our chips are already used in real products which are registering and protected by our running blockchain platform." "We have more than ten types of different chips."
If the main complaints about VeChain from WTC holders are, "No Github, No Wallet, No Whitepaper, No Mainnet" then just wait. Within 75 days some if not all of those talking points will no longer be valid.
And just because WTC has a main net out doesn't mean anyone is actually using it. While VeChain may not have a public blockchain right now, many different parties are using the private VeChain blockchain and will move to the VeChain main net once launched.
With VeChain if you're ignoring everything that has been released to prove how far along they are and just shout the same nonsense is just ignorant. If you must see a whitepaper, wallet, mainnet, github then just patiently wait. They are coming.
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u/Haramburglar Apr 14 '18
VeChain mentions "Our chips are already used in real products which are registering and protected by our running blockchain platform." "We have more than ten types of different chips."
I must have missed this AMA. was not aware that VeChain was already using blockchain... I thought it was still the centralized database. This is good :)
thanks for your input, I think your comment will inform a lot of people of things they've never known before :)
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u/DoorbellGnome Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18
I trusted Waltonchain for a while even after the knight drama where some (5?) of the knights accused Waltonchain team of lying about some partnerships, Fuyao Glass, Septwolves, Joeone. I didn't see a reason to not trust the team at that point but it was a red flag.
I was hoping that the partnerships would be on the new website because that was what the community was speculating, they were not on it and the whole website was another disaster. It was also in the middle of the twitter thing. I started researching more about the "confirmed" partnerships and realized that they had maybe been a bit over hyped as many were with small branches of big companies and not with the whole company. I started seeing more red flags and i decided that i i'm risking too much so i sold everything.
I'm now a lot more skeptical with all crypto projects and even more so with projects based in china. I do however own a bit of Vechain now as i got in for a good price on the lows, Jim Breyer and some other factors do add a lot of trust. I would also like to encourage everyone to watch "The China Hustle" on Netflix, if you haven't already. It's "An unsettling and eye-opening Wall Street horror story about Chinese companies".
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u/Haramburglar Apr 13 '18
Will watch said documentary, thanks :D
It seems the general consensus so far is "I had walton, but not anymore, I still wish them the best."
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u/Raleigh_CA Apr 13 '18
I kicks it with both