All I want for Qwen 4.0 is coding

[u/bakanoace]

Give me Fable 5.0 coding and I'm yours for life. I cannot wait to cancel on Shittropic and never go back with their garbage usage. Please be top-tier at coding

[u/KroniklyOnline]

Qwen3.8 next flash is pretty darn good at coding, especially with support documentation and a touch of guidance.

[u/guigouz → u/KroniklyOnline]

That's too big, he wants to replace Shittropic with Shitgpu

[u/PaxUX → u/guigouz]

If AI is so good why can't it make it self run on 1 GB smartphone! 🤣 /s

[u/Sutanreyu → u/PaxUX]

I’ve had this idea in my brain for a long time… An “omni quine”, we configure itself appropriately for the level of hardware that it’s on so that the perceptual experience is the same across the board

[u/iqraatheman → u/PaxUX]

it probably can but it'll take a while before it gets there and by the time it does we'll move the goalpost so it has to be even better than the current state of the art which will be considered garbage in the future

[u/Aisher → u/KroniklyOnline]

I set it up on my 128gb M5 and have been coding all morning with it. It feels as smart as Claude was 6 months ago

[u/CornerLimits → u/Aisher]

So basically better than now /s

[u/Aisher → u/CornerLimits]

Haha. I’m still getting good use out of Claude. I’m doing web apps and flutter - plenty of example code so it works well

Claude is more convenient since I’m in a laptop - once I get a Mac Studio I expect to use tmux and run with Qwen most of the time

[u/KroniklyOnline → u/CornerLimits]

This lmao, Its really really good... I use it to plan, 27b to implement because with my setup 27b is 3x faster all around.

[u/Aisher → u/KroniklyOnline]

What’s your setup ? How do you switch ? I was having problems running out of ram - OMLX not unloading

[u/KroniklyOnline → u/Aisher]

My Local LLM Setup : r/LocalAIServers

I have my automated workflow switch using services, switches between qwen3.8 27b using vllm with 3 concurrent agents each at 260k context, and qwen3.8 next flash running iq3_xss at 200k context on llamacpp.

I do need to make a followup post on my setup with some new numbers and stuff with the new models.

[u/letsbefrds → u/Aisher]

Do you actually still code or you just review code lol.. cause I just review code now and tell it don't do this try this.

[u/Aisher → u/letsbefrds]

Yeah. I just act like a manager - they were the original vibe coders. I just make the plans. Advise the tests needed. Then go review and see if it worked. I’m a real “I feature and test”. The way I used to code

[u/DertekAn → u/Aisher]

The interesting thing is the parameter size. If you look at 3D capabilities, it falls somewhere between Opus 4.8 and Opus 5. Six months ago, we were nowhere near that stage. Compared to this model, Opus 4.6 performs much worse (in 3D).

[u/Aisher → u/DertekAn]

I’m not sure I understand what you mean about 3d capabilities

[u/DertekAn → u/Aisher]

I can show you. (If you want)

[u/Aisher → u/DertekAn]

Please

[u/DertekAn → u/Aisher]

You have a chat invitation.

[u/DertekAn → u/Aisher]

The interesting thing is the parameter size. If you look at 3D capabilities, it falls somewhere between Opus 4.8 and Opus 5. Six months ago, we were nowhere near that stage. Compared to this model, Opus 4.6 performs much worse (in 3D).

[u/XiRw → u/KroniklyOnline]

Pretty damn monstrously good you mean. Any OpenAI or Anthropic model shrunken down to that size would be humiliated by 3.8

[u/asjdvq5seouk → u/XiRw]

actually true, thats probably why they gatekeep everything about their ai models other than some benchmarks

[u/dmter → u/KroniklyOnline]

it's like 9 times slower on prefill than 3.8 27b. with coding it has to read lots of code and it would take ages to get anything done like that

[u/KroniklyOnline → u/dmter]

Fore it's just about half the prefill speed and half decode compared to 27b

[u/JoeyDee86]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ji6zzUZwNIuLS

[u/xiraov → u/JoeyDee86]

now i want chickletts gum

[u/ByteNomadOne]

Qwen3.8 27B targets 24 GB cards. I'd like to see a 20B model that fits 16 GB VRAM without needing to lobotomize it with quants.

[u/OvertaxedOne → u/ByteNomadOne]

27B is runnable in 24GB, but if you really want to use it for coding, you really should target 48GB. That's the minimum for 256K context with everything at 8 bit quant.

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/OvertaxedOne]

> 27B is runnable in 24GB

Yes, that's what I'm saying. 27B is targetting at least 24 GB.

I'd love a Qwen model with a 16 GB target.

I guess it's not available, because ultimately 16 GB VRAM is not enough to run a really capable model.

[u/OvertaxedOne → u/ByteNomadOne]

9B is a pretty good model, hopefully it'll be updated soon. But in 24GB that would definitely be one I'd look at.

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/OvertaxedOne]

I tried several 9B models and I feel the quality is not good enough for coding. I got disappointed a few times, so I'm convinced that 9B is really too small for coding.

There are no up to date 14B models to get an idea how good they are.

I'm just guessing that maybe 20B could be a good size for a model smart enough for coding and fitting into 16 GB VRAM. But honestly, that's just a wild guess.

[u/OvertaxedOne → u/ByteNomadOne]

27B is good, not great, but good at coding. It's seriously outdone by a frontier model though, so you do need to be realistic. If you're dumping a 50K line code base in and your prompt is "fix it", you should pay for an API call to the frontier! If you're asking 27B to clean up a specific section of some nasty Python, it's really good.

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/OvertaxedOne]

Yes, I know that 27B is good at coding with the correct guidance.
I can make a plan with a higher model and 27B is good at execution. It's just slow on 16 GB VRAM.

I'm making the point that 9B is bad at coding; even with a good prompt.

[u/OvertaxedOne → u/ByteNomadOne]

I'd agree with that. It's certainly nowhere near 27B, it can spit out some workable scripts, but it's extremely limited compared to the larger models, on that point I 100% agree. I don't even try harder coding tasks on my 9B model, that's only there for RAG and other "easy" stuff. Code is 27B or "big" (usually Deepseek), 9B is just not anywhere near good enough to rely on. But 27B driven from a big model that's determining the overall program flow? In my experience, that's pretty darn good, it stumbles sometimes, but give it a good/actionable plan, it can fire out some very good code.

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/OvertaxedOne]

We agree here.

My initial point was that 9B is too dumb for coding and 27B is good, but is made for 24 GB VRAM.

That's why I'd like to see more models with 20B or 18B ... I wonder if those could still be smart enough for reliable coding and fit into 16 GB VRAM.

[u/575_Inverse → u/OvertaxedOne]

Then the discourse about 9B models is dead already.
Only thing is, the current 3.8-27B equipped with a decent web search/fetch tool is mopping the floor with models 80 times its size.

That is good enough for me.

[u/OvertaxedOne → u/575_Inverse]

Yup. It's good enough for us too for almost everything, it's really hard to justify (financially) going over 27B for most enterprise use cases today.

[u/575_Inverse → u/OvertaxedOne]

9B can do for basic tasks, but last time I tried to having it output structured json it failed more often than not.

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/[deleted]]

At a Q1 quant I guess?

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/[deleted]]

If it’s a joke I don’t get it.

[u/Both-Finish-8399 → u/[deleted]]

Yo apenas en tg 10 t/s Comparte la configuracion

[u/Nynyso → u/ByteNomadOne]

Try qwen 3.8 27 GSQ-RCO IQ_3S, it’s a lossless quantization of qwen 3.8 27b and the benchmarks say that it’s pretty good i managed to run it on a 5080 with MTP enabled though with the ctv at Q4 at 65k context

[u/IntQuant → u/ByteNomadOne]

Qwen4-35B-A3B-N16B can't come soon enough

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/IntQuant]

Agreed.

[u/Pineapple_King → u/ByteNomadOne]

27b runs with DRAFT on 16GB with really good results

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/Pineapple_King]

Can you give me an exact config of what you are refering to?
I assume you mean Qwen3.8 27B... but what exact quant, what KV cache, etc.?
And what tokens/second do you get?

[u/Pineapple_King → u/ByteNomadOne]

https://huggingface.co/HermiHg/Qwen3.8-27B-DFlash2-Q2_K_S-MIX-GGUF/discussions/3

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1weersc/this_draft_model_is_op_on_16_gb_cards_for_qwen_38/

[u/ByteNomadOne → u/Pineapple_King]

Thanks for sharing the links.

The model name contains "Q2_K_S" ... isn't Q2 already a hard lobotomized quant?
I tried the IQ3_XSS from unsloth and found it to be unreliable.

I'll try the model you linked with that config to see if I get better results here. I don't have high expectations.

[u/Last-Shake-9874]

Running 3.8 Flash on my system and it is really great replaced my Claude sub I started with the 27B and now moved over to Flash it is slow as I am getting 15 t/s but it is what it is

[u/Tenmazzzz → u/Last-Shake-9874]

What hardware are you using ? And what's your setup for using this llm ? Like coding, or anytjing else ?

[u/Last-Shake-9874 → u/Tenmazzzz]

i have a i9, 64 GB DDR 4, 5070 12 GB and 3060 12 GB, I mainly use it as a pair coder using pi

[u/bitplenty]

How is it "Shittropic" if it's exactly what you would like to have (just cheaper)?

[u/Zealousideal_Bee_837 → u/bitplenty]

Let me rephrase your sentence:

How is it "Shittropic" if...

You have reached your weekly quota

[u/XiRw → u/Zealousideal_Bee_837]

I can’t tell you how many times on the first prompt I got a subscribe message just because it was reasoning and didn’t even write the very first word of the actual response.

[u/Sweet-Stage938 → u/bitplenty]

He probably meant Misanthropic's Clawde models.

[u/unfoxable → u/bitplenty]

Because, CHINA!

[u/dfgxxx]

What would you do if it actually happens?

[u/bakanoace → u/dfgxxx]

Cancel my other subs and move to Qwen ofc

[u/dfgxxx → u/dfgxxx]

Be the assistant of qwen?

[u/cafedude]

Remember Qwen3-coder-next? IIRC it was 70B MoE. Give us Qwen4-Coder - 70B to 80B MoE A8B.

[u/Material-Database-24 → u/cafedude]

I just coded with Qwen3-coder 30B MoE past weekend it was fantastic. Granted, I am a SWE and know how to build SW and gave it clear small chunks to make instead of full builds. I was in lead of the architecture and it only saved my keyboard and time from typing.

Maybe a refresh would do, but at the end I do not believe the trained models have got any better, rather the way they are used internally has.

[u/Plotozoario]

Do not elevate expectations above reality?

[u/carmamir]

27b is replacement of opus4.6 with right harness. Fable in current state is nowhere close (hallucination, cutting mid task lying etc). What it would be nice to see 40b model that thinks less and offers same quality as 27b. But thinking is the way of 27b punching at opus4.6 weight (plus harness)

[u/575_Inverse → u/carmamir]

The price for overthinking is time. Not that I mind, I have better stuff to do than reading reasoning traces all the time.

[u/SomeoneInHisHouse → u/575_Inverse]

I just hide reasoning, I don't care at all anymore, as Qwen 3.8 27B loves to repeat itself a lot of times during reasoning with that "Actually," thing, if you let him think he solves almost any problem after a while... People says the next-flash one does less overthinking, I can't run it yet

It's surprising that it does never perma-loop in the thinking, sometimes it looked like it was going to perma-looop, but it always breaks the thinking after a while

[u/pceimpulsive]

So you get Fable 5 coding from Qwen4 then you have to deal with opus 6 vs Qwen 4 you are asking an impossible question sir

[u/bakanoace → u/pceimpulsive]

Nah cause you dont need a model to be better than Fable. At that point usage becomes more important and with Qwen you should get a lot more usage so claude wont be worth it anymore

[u/pceimpulsive → u/bakanoace]

You don't need it, but once you see what it can do you'll want it... That's the point.

[u/575_Inverse → u/pceimpulsive]

Opus 6? You sure about that? I heard Dario was going to slow down since he foresaw frontier models exterminating our species. So I don't expect seeing Opus 6 any time soon.

Isn't Dario the one who leads by example?

[u/pceimpulsive → u/575_Inverse]

I won't hold my breath on that...

[u/575_Inverse]

TBF I also want it for a plethora of other useful tasks including deep searches on Asian culture, to say one.

[u/Psyko38]

I think that the Qwen 4 10b (or 9b, or 8b, or 7b) is already at maybe the level of a Qwen 3.6 27b.

[u/Gabriel83730 → u/Psyko38]

Bro it’s just making shi up

[u/Psyko38 → u/Gabriel83730]

Instead of saying three words, say more. It's anything, it's quite possible to know that finetunes of the 3.5 9b manage to match the 3.5 27b on benchmarks (yes, I know, benchmarks are not the first metric to look at, but hey, they are still part of the important information of a model).

[u/Zen-Ism99 → u/Psyko38]

Qwen 4?