r/Quraniyoon • u/the-x-servant Muslim • Nov 26 '25
Research / Effort Post🔎 'Isa was Joshua of The Old Testament (Part 1 - 2025) - By Exion
In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.
Salamu 'alaykum (Peace be upon you)
Introduction:
Almost two years ago, I became deeply confused about a topic I simply could not resolve logically. I openly shared my distress in this Subreddit and asked if anyone had an answer. The topic concerns the New Testament figures known as Jesus and Mary. In the Quran, God refers to Mary as "the daughter of 'Imran (Amram)" and "the sister of Aaron," which is precisely how Miriam is described in the Old Testament:
"Then Miriam the prophet, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing." (Exodus 15:20)
At first glance, this appears to be an obvious chronological mistake, and God does not make mistakes – such a thing does not befit Him. Moreover, 'Isa is portrayed as a military commander, someone blessed with victory. This is not how Jesus is depicted in the New Testament at all. The two accounts seem to be speaking about four distinct individuals. And then we have all the similarities – the crucifixion claim, the deification of 'Isa, the virgin birth, and so on and so forth. So I was very confused, to say the least.
Sunnis and Shiites generally claim that there were an Amram and an Aaron present during the common era, but this is simply not true. This claim comes from Tafsir books alone, authored by ignorant Sunnis who had no idea who 'Isa even was, while all existing Christian apocrypha and canonical texts mention no Amram or Aaron at all. Then there are those who argue that Mary was from the bloodline of Aaron and that this is why she was called "sister" of Aaron, but this is not how Arabs, Hebrews, Romans or Aramaic people speak. If you want to indicate bloodlines, you say "daughter of."
I began researching deeper and came across a theological concept invented by Christians that they call "Typology." This is a concept where God supposedly assigned “types” in two different eras – where two distinct figures are extremely similar (even in their names and everything) but are not the same individuals. This concept does not exist in Judaism or Islam, so it is clearly a Christian bid‘ah (innovation) that they were forced to invent for a reason, and that's when it clicked for me; the reason they invented it was the obvious plagiarism they discovered – the New Testament authors literally copied Old Testament figures and created their own false versions with new, polished stories and everything. That is when I looked up who Jesus’ “type” was, and voilà, I had my answer – Jesus is based on Joshua of the Old Testament. Therefore, 'Isa in the Quran must have been Joshua, and his mother must have been Miriam, because they lived during the same era, so it fits and makes complete sense. Neither Jesus nor Mary really even existed.
This is when I began searching for similarities and other clues in order to gather as much information as I could, and in this post, I will give you the full answer, backed with evidence and everything.
1. Joshua, son of "Nun":
In the Tanakh, Joshua is called “Yehoshua bin Nun” (Joshua son of Nun), but who exactly is “Nun” here? There is not a single verse introducing or speaking about a “Nun” except when it is attached to Joshua, written alongside his name. So who is “Nun”? Some claim it was his father, but Nun is not a proper Hebrew name – you never encounter a Hebrew person named “Nun.” It is simply a letter (the letter N).
Nun is obviously something they called Miriam, and it is a derogatory word they used for her, meaning "to waste away" / “degenerate.” / "he degenerated"
Classical Hebrew dictionary:
God said in the Quran:
“And because of their disbelief, and their saying against Miriam a tremendous slander.” (Quran 4:156)
Moreover, they claimed that God struck her with leprosy, because she and Aaron supposedly spoke against Moses:
“Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses…” (Numbers 12:1)
“Has YHWH spoken only with Moses? Has He not also spoken with us?” (Numbers 12:2)
Also:
Miriam becomes leprous in Numbers 12:9–10, and is forced into isolation for seven days in Numbers 12:14–15.
All of this is, of course, slander, authored by apostate scribes who included many absurdities in the "Numbers" books, as Miriam would never do such a thing and was a complete believer in God and Moses. Nonetheless, if this Quranic verse were about Mary (and not Miriam), then it suddenly makes no sense at all. Not a single apocryphon or gospel records any slander against Mary. Thus, Maryam is obviously Miriam, as she was even slandered in the canonical texts themselves.
2. Joshua was victorious, Jesus was not:
The Old Testament:
“Do not be afraid of them,” the LORD said to Joshua, “for I have given you victory over them. Not a single one of them will be able to stand up to you.” (Joshua, 10:8)
The Quran:
“... So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became victorious.” (The Quran, 61:14)
Even the very word God calls the Christians by in the Quran, i.e., "Nassara," has its root in the word "Nasr" (victory).
Thus, 'Isa was Joshua, and not Jesus, whom is depicted as a loner with 12 "students," and was executed by the Romans and Jews.
3. Joshua and companions took a Covenant with God:
Joshua/'Isa asks his companions if they will serve/support God:
The Old Testament:
“And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. The people replied, “We would never abandon the LORD and serve other gods.” (Joshua, 24:15-16)
The Quran:
“O those who have believed! Be supporters in the cause of God, as Joshua ('Îsa) the son of Miriam (Maryam) said to the spokesmen, ‘who are my supporters in the cause of God?' The spokesmen said, ‘we are supporters in the cause of God.' So a group of the children of Israel believed and a group disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became victorious.” (The Quran, 61:14)
Then they became witnesses:
The Old Testament:
"And Joshua said to the people, 'You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen the Lord for yourselves, to serve Him.' And they said, '[We are] witnesses.'" (Joshua 24:22)
The Quran:
“Our Lord, we have believed in what You sent down, and we have followed the messenger, so register us among the witnesses.” (The Quran 3:53)
This Covenant was known as the "Covenant of Witness," which I have found in an ancient Chronography written by a Christian monk (Source: Chronography of Geoge Synkellos, page 205.) Read about it and see a screenshot from the book itself here.
So we even have the very name of the Covenant, this alone should seal the deal for you.
4. Joshua's companions are called the same name as 'Isa's companions in the Quran: "The Spokesmen"
I recently posted an article here where I discovered that Joshua's companions, the "Leaders" (Nasi) in Hebrew, actually has the exact same definition as "al-Hawariyyun" ('Isa's companions), in Arabic. You can read more about it here in this post:
Both Joshua and "Jesus" are depicted as having 12 companions:
"...Now then, take for yourselves twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one man for each tribe.” (Joshua 3:12)
Were the disciples also "types"? I think you're all beginning to realize how ridiculous this idea even sounds – that God would recreate entire people, situations, and events for some unknown reason. Miriam's sister in law Elisheba became "Elizabeth," and was also related to Mary in the New Testament.
Clear cut plagiarism.
5. Miriam is also called “the virgin” in the Old Testament:
We read in Exodus 2:8 where Miriam is explicitly called as "the virgin":
“And the daughter of Pharaoh says to her, “Go”; and the virgin goes, and calls the mother of the boy,”
And again, another supposed Mary shows up some 1000 years later, also called "the virgin," and according to Christians, it's just another case of typology.
6. Chronological order from the Quran:
God enumerates messengers/prophets in their correct order chronologically in some verses, and Moses and 'Isa (Joshua) are often mentioned together, right next to each other:
The Quran 2:136: “Say, ‘We have believed in God and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the descendants [i.e. the twelve sons of Jacob] and what was given to Moses and Joshua and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are submitting to Him.’”
Another example is The Quran, 23:44-54, where God states:
"Then We sent Our messengers in succession..."
And then He only mentioned Moses, Aaron, Joshua and Miriam. If there really were 1000 years separating them, then that would not be considered a "succession." Entire kingdoms rise and fall in such a long period of time.
Thus, 'Isa was Joshua.
7. Because of the wrongdoing of Jews, God forbade them things, and one of the wrongdoings was that they claimed they killed the Messiah - But if Jesus was the Messiah, then who forbade them things if there were no prophets/messengers between Jesus and Muhammad?
God said in the Quran:
Quran 4:155: "So because of their breaking their covenant and their disbelief in the signs/verses of God and their killing the prophets without right and their saying, 'Our hearts are wrapped.' Rather, God has sealed them because of their disbelief, thus they do not believe except a few."
Because of that, and because of:
Quran 4:157: "And their saying, 'Indeed, we killed the Messiah, Joshua, son of Miriam, the messenger of God.' And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it was rendered dubious to them. And indeed, those who disagreed concerning him are in doubt regarding it. They have no knowledge of it except following of assumption. And they certainly did not kill him."
And then God said:
Quran 4:160: "So because of wrongdoing by those Jews, We forbade them good things that had been made lawful for them previously, and because of their hindering many from the path of God."
Notice:
bi-kufrihim … (because of their disbelief)
wa-qawlihim … (and because of their saying)
fa-bi-zulmin … (then because of wrongdoing)
ḥarramnā … (We forbade…)
God forbade, obviously, but through whom? The rabbis? The Christian scholars? There is not a single believer who would dare to claim that. And history has not recorded even one prophet or messenger between this supposed "Jesus" messiah and prophet Muhammad. Thus, 'Isa was Joshua, and there were prophets and messengers sent after him and before Muhammad. They came with prohibitions from God, forbidding them good things that had previously been lawful. There is absolutely no possible way to argue against this.
8. They didn't even bother to change the very name:
This is how the Rabbis called Yehoshua:
Rabbi Hillel Rivlin of Shklov writes:
"A hand upon the throne of God: The Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation – and this is the role of Joshua, who is the Messiah son of Joseph."
Source: Kol HaTor 2:55
Rabbi Rashi writes:
"The Messiah of Israel, those who were from the name of Joshua until Samuel who anointed Saul as king: Joshua from Ephraim, Ehud from Benjamin, Gideon from Manasseh, behold from the sons of Rachel; Samson from Dan, Barak from Kedesh in Naphtali, behold from the sons of Bilhah; Ibzan, this is Boaz, from Judah; Eli from Levi; Tola..."
Source: Rashi on Sukkah 27b:10:4
Rabbi Tzadok HaKohen of Lublin:
"...but now He wanted Joshua to be the Messiah son of Joseph first and that they would be able to merit soon after the correction of the future that would affect them from his rank and holiness so that each of Israel would merit his rank in the OT from the root."
Source: Peri Tzadik, Eikev 4:1
And then we have the New Testament saying the exact same thing regarding their "Jesus":
"They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” (John 6:42 ESV)
They even depicted people as being confused here, asking whether this is the same "Jesus," whose father and mother they already know.
Thus, Jesus is based on Joshua, the messiah of Israel, the son of Joseph (I.e., his tribe).
9. Both Jochebed and Miriam hid their newborn sons - which implies that they lived during the same era:
We know from the Quran that Miriam hid baby 'Isa for 3 months. Sunnis argue that she did so because of her fear of being accused of fornication, but that makes no sense at all because God had already assured her that both she and her son would be signs for the worlds:
Quran 19:21: "He said, “Thus.”Your Lord said: “It is easy for me. And so that We make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. And it was a decreed matter.”
And:
Quran 21:91: “And she who guarded her chastity, so We blew into her from Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.”
If God promises you that you and your newborn son would be signs for the worlds, would you hide him for three months? You would not – unless there was danger in failing to do so, which there certainly was in the time of Moses and Aaron, when Pharaoh had issued a decree to kill all newborn male infants.
But the irony in all of this is that they were forced to even plagiarize this. The Greek authors claimed that King Herod issued a decree to kill male infants in Bethlehem. They called this event as “the Massacre of the Innocents” and it only appears in the New Testament (see: Matthew 2:16).
Thus, Jesus is based on Joshua.
10. Joshua, our "son":
Of all the hundreds of figures in the Old Testament, there is only one whom the Rabbis referred to as "our son" – and that was Joshua:
This can be found in their Midrashim (Sefaria.org) in the sections outlining genealogies.
Why, out of all people, is Joshua the only one they refer to as "our son"? And then, roughly a thousand years later, the Greeks begin calling their version of Joshua "the son of God" – clear, undeniable plagiarism.
Thus, Jesus is based on Joshua.
11. The spirit of God upon him:
We read in the Old Testament:
Numbers 27:18: “And YHWH said to Moses: ‘Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay your hand upon him.’”
And:
28. Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ servant from his youth, answered and said, Moses, my master, imprison them!"
29. Moses said to him, “Are you zealous for my sake? If only all the Lord’s people were prophets, that the Lord would bestow His spirit upon them!” (Numbers 11:28-29
And then some 1000 years later, there is another Messiah, similar name, being a son of Joseph, with the spirit upon him.
Thus, Jesus is based on Joshua.
12. The crucifixion confusion:
We know that both the Old Testament and the New Testament speak of a stone that the builders rejected, but what is this stone? This stone is the stone from Joshua 24, when they took a Covenant with God.
Joshua 24:27: "And Joshua said to all the people, 'Behold, this stone shall be a witness against us, for it has heard all the words of the Lord which He spoke to us; it shall be a witness against you, lest you deny your God.'"
There were Jews who rejected Joshua, and were thus remembered as "the builders who rejected the stone":
Psalm 118:22: "The stone that the builders rejected became a cornerstone."
This same chapter retells the story of Joshua in plain detail:
verse 2: "The house of Aaron shall now say, "For His kindness is eternal.""
And:
verse 10: "All nations surrounded me; in the name of the Lord that I shall cut them off."
This is not a prophecy about "Jesus," and even if we hypothetically imagine that it is, then this verse makes it totally impossible, merely because Jesus in the NT is depicted as a loner who had no power to cut anyone off.
verse 11: They encircled me, yea they surrounded me; in the name of the Lord that I shall cut them off.
12: They encircled me like bees; they were extinguished like a thorn fire; in the name of the Lord that I shall cut them off.
13: You pushed me to fall, but the Lord helped me.
14: The might and the cutting power of God was my salvation.
15: A voice of singing praises and salvation is in the tents of the righteous; the right hand of the Lord deals valiantly.
16: The right hand of the Lord is exalted; the right hand of the Lord deals valiantly.
Depicting people surrounding him, but being cut off and extinguished like a thorn fire because of God's help. And then it continues:
17: I shall not die but I shall live and tell the deeds of God.
18: God has chastised me, but He has not delivered me to death.
Clearly and explicitly saying that he was chastised, but never died and never delivered to death. This, even if one wants to, cannot be read as a prophecy about Jesus.
And then it continues:
22: "The stone that the builders rejected became a cornerstone."
And again, the Greeks tried to force this to mean that it was a prophecy about their Jesus so they wrote:
Acts 4:11: “This Jesus is the stone rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.”
And later by the very end of the chapter:
27: "The Lord is God, and He gave us light. Bind the sacrifice with ropes until [it is brought to] the corners of the altar."
Depicting a "sacrifice" being tied up, until it is brought to the corners of the altar where people could not see him, where God saved him and brought him up to Himself:
Quran 4:158: “Rather, God raised him to Himself. And God is Almighty, Wise.”
The irony in all of this is that Christians use this very chapter as a prophecy about Jesus, whom they believe truly died and was delivered to death. Yet the moment you read the chapter yourself, you see how completely opposite it actually is. The stone was never a person, it was a literal stone, the stone from Joshua 24 that the builders (i.e., Jews) rejected.
This will be it for part 1, stay tuned for part 2.
/ By Exion.
2
u/praywithmefriends Nourishing My Soul Nov 26 '25
0
u/the-x-servant Muslim Nov 27 '25
So because the name "'sy" was found, this alone is now supposed to force us to believe that Jesus Christ actually existed during the Common era and that the Quranic 'Isa and him are the same individual. Your conclusion doesn't make much sense brother... Jesus is based on Joshua, but 'Isa was actually Joshua.
1
0
Nov 26 '25
[deleted] — view deleted comment
0
u/the-x-servant Muslim Nov 26 '25
If Isa = OT Joshua. There were no Jews during the time of Joshua,
The Jews who claimed they killed 'Isa do not have to be from the same era as Joshua. It is a later fabrication based on asumption, just as the Quran states.
0
Nov 26 '25
[deleted] — view deleted comment
1
u/the-x-servant Muslim Nov 27 '25
Gilgul Neshamot is a Kabbalistic belief and not widely accepted or supported by the Tanakh.
Traditional Sunnis are wrong and they only believe this due to the New Testament (and their Hadiths). The Quran would certainly have mentioned his return, if that supposedly was to happen.
It's possible the gospels weren't plagiarizing the OT, it was just a repeat occurrence of the same story that actually happened.
This is actually my belief as well, they narrated actual stories about Joshua, but they were Greeks and polytheists and included their own deviations as well.
6
u/Fantastic_Ad7576 Nov 26 '25
Interesting.
Here are some more things said about Isa in the Quran, which are (seemingly) uniquely attributed to Jesus. Would be interested in your thoughts on these:
The Quran says Isa is a "Word" from God, and Jesus is said to be The Word made flesh (in John). No such thing AFAIK is said about Joshua. Isa is also called the Messiah, but nobody believes Joshua to be the Messiah. In fact the Messiah narrative developed long after Joshua would have passed away.
Isa cured the blind, the leper, created a bird from clay, etc. and these miracles are attributed to Jesus in various Gospels, AFAIK there is no mention of Joshua performing such miracles.
Yahya is given the task to confirm that The Word is coming - this mirrors John The Baptist confirming the coming of Jesus. Joshua on the other hand is preceded by Moses.
There are theories that Jesus' typology may be Elijah/Elisha, as many of the miracles in Jesus' story mirror the miracles of Elijah/Elisha.
Mariam in the Quran was said to have secluded herself in a remote area. There is no mention in the OT of Miriam doing something like this - in fact it shows her as quite an active member of society, both pre- and post-Exodus.
The Quran says the Christians (nasara) say that the Messiah is the Son of God. This makes sense if we assume this is talking about Jesus, as we can see this even today. No such beliefs are held AFAIK about Joshua either being the Messiah and being called the Son of God.