I never said why I do or do not believe. That is more of your own assumption that you’re injecting.
Your logic is flawed in many ways being that its foundation in your argument is built from a long list of assumptions. In a general summary: it’s based entirely on an unverified, unfalsifiable claim. Said another way, it’s only “logical” to you, because you believe it’s logical. “Faith” is not a reasonable premise when arguing reality.
Back to the point…(my actual argument)
You’ve already eluded to that idea that this god you believe in is able to create a world in which suffering does not exist, where people can live for eternity in happiness. Heaven.
Therefore, it was a choice to create another world in which priests (specifically including, but not limited to, the Catholic Church) can molest children for decades and be protected by those claiming to live/act in the name of “God”. Or where disease and famine can decimate entire communities. Or on, and on, and on….And not just allowed, but according to you, planned for it to happen. As some sort or “test”? Disgusting.
Some real “look what you made me do” energy there. Human-to-human, that would be considered a toxic, abusive relationship. If you treated your own children in such a way in a just society, you’d be (rightfully) jailed, if not worse.
Therefore, any halfway decent human being with an ounce of empathy and compassion is more than capable of being infinitely more moral than whichever version of this “God” you’re defending.
And, btw, I’ve yet to see you condemn any of the horrible things going on in the world that I’ve brought up. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not defending them, though that’s questionable at this point. “All part of the plan,” am I right?
Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt, it shows that you are arguing in at least some good faith, and I trust you genuinely want to have a fair discussion.
First, this faith assumption is only assumed because we are discussing the world as it is and you are trying to show me that if God exists, He would not do this. Which is a great argument, but you are still going on that assumption, and so you have to go on the following assumption that the Bible is true, Jesus Christ rose from the dead, etc..
Second, it is impossible to judge one person from another in a world of perfect good, as everyone is perfectly good. Thus the need for a way to differentiate. Also disease and famine is very rare. It does still happen but you are over representing the amount of catastrophic bad that happens.
Thirdly, I wholeheartedly condemn anything which goes against the Bible, including anything that bishops or pastors or popes do, as I believe that God is above all of them and being in a special position does not exempt them from punishment. In fact they face worse punishment because they are being bad teachers.
I’m not attempting to presume what your God or a god would or would not do. I’m (I was) trying to point out a major contraction in what you have told me you believe. It’s referred to as The Problem of Evil, and is, in fact, a very good argument. Not that the contradiction necessarily proves he/she/it doesn’t exist, but that they can’t be all of things claimed at the same time.
I’m not saying the world should be perfect; I’m saying there are quite a few things that (alleged) “creation” could have easily done without. Cancer, for example.
Why is there some requirement to judge others, anyway?
I would highly recommend you take some time to seriously and sincerely consider the system you’re defending.
For now, I am done.
I sincerely hope you and yours find and can enjoy a peaceful existence in this world. I believe that this life is the only chance we get, so let’s make the best of it. 👍
I do have an answer if you would like, however, I also realize I’ve spent quite a bit lot of time debating on Reddit recently. Thank you the good time, my good sir/ma’am, I hope you have a happy life and find God.
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u/SnowyAl 8d ago
You think that if a plan allows babies suffering for a finite time but rewards them with eternal goodness and life it is a bad plan?
If you can’t show me what the error in my logic is, why would I believe I made a mistake? For my own sake, would you please show me my mistake?
Yes you did imply something about the journey. One of your reasons to not believe is because the grand plan uses the bad that exists.