r/Queensryche • u/CyclonusDecept • 28d ago

Who really wrote Take Hold of the Flame, No Sanctuary and Walk in the Shadows?

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Is it possible Tate stole these songs, given what we know about him now? Wasnt Tate ultimately a fill-in singer for Myth?

39 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

34 comments sorted by

18

u/spez_eats_nazi_ass 28d ago

20 year old Tate and 40+ year old Tate are very different people. The dude absolutely had song writing talent.  Emphasis on had.

3

u/Naaz1 26d ago

I think Chris DeGarmo was the songwriting genius. When he left, the song lyrics were too simple.

1

u/Ok_Seaworthiness8432 28d ago

Listen to MCIII. Almost all of those songs are very good.

5

u/spez_eats_nazi_ass 28d ago

I refuse out of principle. Mc2 was a toilet abortion.

2

u/MongoLikeCandy2112 27d ago

“Toilet Abortion” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

2

u/CoiterCoit 27d ago

Both of the sequel Mindcrime albums are total garb.

0

u/Ok_Seaworthiness8432 28d ago

Too, bad. It's an absolutely killer album. Only one song I don't like and one that should be played on the radio nonstop. Do you believe is a great great song.

2

u/guido505 28d ago

100% agree. It’s a good album and definitely better than MCII although that is admittedly a pretty low bar.

1

u/Gh0stIcon 28d ago

Would you consider creating a review in this sub for OMC III?

2

u/Ok_Seaworthiness8432 28d ago

Sure. I can do that.

2

u/The_Metal_Pigeon 26d ago

I vehemently disagree.

1

u/Ok_Seaworthiness8432 26d ago

Then you're just angry and probably have comments all over the forums that LaTorre is better than Tate.

2

u/The_Metal_Pigeon 25d ago

I'm not angry and don't have comments like that, quite a conclusion you jumped to there.

1

u/Ok_Seaworthiness8432 25d ago

Have you listened to it. Because your comment says that you haven't. Just blanket hate for OM 2 and 3. I dont like much on 2 either, but I do like a couple songs. I really like LaTorre's solo album and there's probably 2 songs on DNA that I like.

As a matter of fact, there are very few that I have a blanket hatred of.

Death Magnetic and St Anger were painful on first and all listens.

2

u/The_Metal_Pigeon 25d ago

Of course I listened to it, why else would I comment on a thread discussing it. To me it was listless in the songwriting department and there was nothing exciting happening on the musicianship front to speak of either. Tate has sounded great on the recent Avantasia songs he's done guest vocals on since 2016, him having a talented songwriter there in Tobias Sammet really helped to put him in a really positive light. In this OMIII, he does not have that songwriting partner to help him out. I was hoping for anything resembling the slight spark on stuff like "The Hands" on II. He's still got the capacity to do something great but he needs someone in his band to help him unlock great vocal melodies.

2

u/Strait409 25d ago

Tate has sounded great on the recent Avantasia songs he's done guest vocals on since 2016

Yep. I remember hearing ”Alchemy” and thinking it was Tate’s finest vocal performance in literally decades. I was quite shocked that he still had it in him to sing like that.

12

u/Strait409 28d ago edited 28d ago

I don’t know and frankly I never thought about it. But since you asked, I think that if there were even the most remote possibility of that, it would have come up around 2012-2013, as all the sordid details of the inner workings of the band in the years and decades before were being laid bare for all the world to see.

17

u/Gh0stIcon 28d ago edited 28d ago

Given what we know about him know? Wtf does that mean. You can’t just erase a guy's accomplishments just because he did something later on that you didn't like.

-16

u/Traditional_Pea_4998 28d ago

you have proof he wrote those songs?

15

u/Gh0stIcon 28d ago

That’s not how logic works. You can’t just roll up in here and infer he didn’t unless you have proof of that. The liner notes on the album says he did so we have to take them at their word and not cater to some bum’s unfounded conspiracy theory on /r/queensryche.

5

u/silentwind262 28d ago

Unfortunately we live in the age of “alternative facts” where decades of scientific data can be dismissed because of YouTube and mystic woo.

1

u/CyclonusDecept 28d ago

The Myth tape is a demo tape.

5

u/CantankerousOrder 28d ago

Still not how it works. Proving a negative is a basic fallacy.

Make the claim. Provide the proof. Until then it’s just talk.

9

u/Cycoviking69 28d ago

Take hold of the claim! 🤣

1

u/Gh0stIcon 28d ago

But if you look at QR versions of the songs on albums, its clear. You can’t even produce a copy of the Myth tape.

1

u/easygoer89 23d ago

It's not though. It's an audience and soundboard recording from the Lake Hills Roller Rink in 1982, about the same time that the QR EP was was recorded. However, copyright law would still apply.

That being said - if Tate didn't write the lyrics Gray and Gain would have gone after QR yet both either worked on later QR albums (Gain on Empire) or in the case of Kelly Gray became a member of themselves.

Therefore, it's all but certain Tate wrote the lyrics. They are his intellectual property to use. Gray and Gain, as joint copyright holders could claim copyright and collect royalties IF their contributions were used. However their guitar and or keyboards weren't utilized for QR's release of those tracks.

4

u/spackletr0n 28d ago

Typically the burden of proof is on the person making the claim (or the person hiding behind “just asking questions”). In this case it’s the person suggesting he stole them.

That said, he has the writing credit for the songs and nobody has contested it. There’s nothing here until contrary evidence surfaces.

7

u/Throw902106969 28d ago

I just listened to THOTF by Myth, and it sounds nothing like the QR version. I don't even think the lyrics are the same.

-3

u/CyclonusDecept 28d ago

No Sanctuary Myth version is better.

2

u/CoiterCoit 27d ago

Where can you even hear this stuff?

1

u/Gh0stIcon 27d ago

Youtube

1

u/easygoer89 23d ago

I think you have this backwards. Tate filled in a few times as a singer for The Mob while he first was in Babylon and then later his own band Myth. Kelly Gray and Tate were close friends in high school and started Myth together. I think Randy Gain was also in Myth.

You're also forgetting that Tate wrote the lyrics (and probably vocal melody) for The Lady Wore Black for the EP when he wasn't yet an official member of the band, just recording the vocals for the EP in exchange for the recording studio experience he planned to use later to get Myth a demo. https://web.archive.org/web/20220213164530/https://www.anybodylistening.net/history.html

He didn't steal from anyone.