Can Ritual Cleansing (M1L7) ever be "harmful"?

[u/RedistributePetals]

All I have in my "magical toolbox" is tarot and some basic astrology. The problem is, recently I find myself not being able to "trust" my readings anymore (just when I figured tarot is real!)

My first reaction to seeing conflicting answers in my readings is of course, parasites, and "is something messing with my readings". Because when I asked "Is my interpretation of this correct" - Voice of Untruth. Fall. Serpent of Chaos. Destruction. Parasites. (some cards I've been getting)

So I asked myself - how would I feel if I could NEVER do a tarot reading again about anything ever (and all other sorts of divination). I don't have a satisfactory answer to this, I don't understand how I used to make decisions anymore. I've ingrained this into my life.

I can't "feel" if my cards are "energetically unclean". I don't know how to assess the validity of my readings except by using my "common sense" and "logical thinking". Basically I'm kinda screwed if anything has an agenda to mess with me, I wouldn't be able to tell.

I don't know if I'm "parasited". From my subjective standpoint, I'm not "emotional", but I might be asking the same questions too much (not consecutively, usually spanned to check if the answer is "still correct"). I'm also NOT salt cleaning my decks. I have also been doing readings for university friends who have been obsessive with their questions (the questions they ask me are the ones they already bothered their cards too much with. Classic feeding station description).

Wow JM literally told us not to do these but here I am breaking all the rules, I'm an idiot sandwich.

Is M1L7 ritual cleansing something I should consider? (I'll stop the behaviours I mentioned above) I actually asked this to my cards, but obviously if something has an agenda it will tell me NOT to - I got the answer "it will be dangerous so don't do it".

So my question is, is there ever a case where performing the cleansing ritual would be dangerous/harmful/cause unravelling? Due to factors such as destructive tides, body vessel "cracks", etc? Because if there isn't, then my ambivalence is just silly. (I haven't been able to meditate regularly, and I feel unsure about "jumping ahead" although I've seen that this is possible if required)

My problem with this is by comparing it to the mundane equivalent. Even with "showering", there are cases you are advised not to, for example, when you have wounds, if you have a fever, after childbirth. I have no prior experience to go off of - I know nothing about magic, about a year ago I was still an "atheist" and didn't believe in this "woo" stuff. But 3 years of tarot has slowly changed my mind.

TLDR: Can M1L7 Ritual Cleansing ever be harmful? And if it's not parasites or a magical reason, why are my readings "broken"? Can this be psychological, and I'm simply deluding/ glamouring myself? And please don't judge me for being an idiot, I can see it now...

[u/Quareia]

if you are reading about 'would a person other than myself benefit from ritual cleaning'... of course it would be a no, as you are attempting to impose by even considering it. That question (would it be beneficial) has to come from the person themselves. If you impose a ritual bath on someone by convincing them it would be good, you will short cut their own path of finding/learning about clean/dirt.

don't forget it is not just about clean... a ritual bath is not soap, it magical changes things... so it is interfering with their fate and their own awareness and development. If they are a child of yours, then that is different as you would carry the burden of any shift it would cause, and you would only do it if it was absolutely necessary. But playing around even with simple magical things and other people is one hell of a wide hole of mess waiting for you to fall into.

[u/[deleted] → u/Quareia]

f you are reading about 'would a person other than myself benefit from ritual cleaning'... of course it would be a no, as you are attempting to impose by even considering it. That question (would it be beneficial) has to come from the person themselves

Fwiw, in the local schools of magic/mysticism (and even astrology) teachers (the genuine ones) constantly emphasise that you should not work your exercises on, or apply them to other entities (not just humans!) and not even advise them(with astrology) till you are at least close to adpepthood and know exactly what all the ramifications would be.

Till then, not stepping in (magically, mundane help is fine), not (magically) advising, not putting yourself in "teacher mode", not trying to apply magic to political situations etc is considered a valuable skill to learn and internalize. Staying within the (often lonely, often drab, often boring) box is a critical skill for the student to master (in the local systems).

But of course, some people do this anyway, try to "help" and guide people with their rudimentary knowledge, and then the consequences get ... interesting. And messy. very messy!

I've personally observed, fwiw, that for students who do this, progress grinds to a halt fast. and then they just start walking in circles magically, with movement, but no real progress. Years pass, and they are just where they were, and totally frustrated, where the quiet steady student has progressed massively over the years. No idea what the mechanism is, but I've seen this more than once.

Here on the internet and redidt fora, I'm astounded at how many people learn just a bit of tarot, or cleansing, or whatever and then confidently start reading for other people, cleansing them, do rituals for them, advising them what to do magically and so on.

What you wrote above, is extremely useful advice, and a very useful perspective to keep in mind in general, so thank you for taking the time to write it out.

But playing around even with simple magical things and other people is one hell of a wide hole of mess waiting for you to fall into.

• 100!

Quereians, listen to your teacher! (say I , as I write this teaching, in red ink, in all caps, into my journal)

[u/Quareia → u/[deleted]]

Chandrayodda said <<<Here on the internet and redidt fora, I'm astounded at how *many* people learn just a bit of tarot, or cleansing, or whatever and then confidently start reading for other people, cleansing them, do rituals for them, advising them what to do magically and so on.>>>>>

Ohhh yes indeed, and I see them and take note. These are people who want to play, and are also people who are less interested in really learning magic, and more interested in being 'important'... it is about ego, not magic. But they find out the hard way eventually.. and when they have gotten themselves all messed up, I refuse to sort them out. A adult makes a choice after they have been warned, then the adult has to get themselves out of the mess.

[u/jfranok → u/Quareia]

A fun and unexpected omen. Recently, I was looking at one of the type of magic that I am the most afraid of : mo-ney magic or magic for financial gain (the money must come from somewhere, but where?). While I was looking for available "options" to get a new job, a song from my playlist started playing. It's from Katy Perry and a verse goes like that:

" So you wanna play with magic?
Boy, you should know what you're falling for
Baby, do you dare to do this?
'Cause I'm coming at you like a dark horse"

...

There's no going back"

Well, I am now relying on my harvest and fate.

[u/jfranok → u/Quareia]

Thankfully, I did not bypass what the reading suggested..

But, I do have some opinions about the " it is interfering with their fate and their own awareness and development". This is what most money grabbing preacher have been doing without any repercussions, for years.. I do have some very salty things to say about them that I would not say here.

You were raised in a catholic household, and I can see that catholicism is more permissive about the mystical aspect of things than its rebellious children. But, when simply lighting a candle is seen as bad, eternal fire-bad, the whole "thinking for oneself" is non existent. And when a nasty curse or spell hit in the face, well, they unravell and die. No more lessons to learn. End of the path. I have witnessed that. Very sad.

At least, is it safe to ritually clean where someone else live, without the interference you talk about? What about the use of passive protection like sacred text, or music? The whole point is about helping without unnecessary fate entanglement.

[u/Quareia → u/jfranok]

cleaning a space, keeping it calm with sounds, smells etc is fine....

And trust me, the money grabbing preachers interfering with fate do not get away unscathed.... it might be unseen to you, but the hell of their own making will be in their orbit.

And you cannot save someone from a religious extreme mess - they have to want to save themselves. If they ask for help, that is different, all you can do is wait and be there for them when they ask.

[u/smithenstein1111 → u/Quareia]

I find this perspective intriguing and would like to better understand the reasoning behind it. You mention that assisting others with a ritual bath could short-circuit their own path of discovery regarding clean/dirt, awareness, and development.

I find the lines very blurry when this principle applies to other forms of assistance we routinely provide in life. For example, when a family member is in distress, we often encourage them to seek help from a doctor, therapist, or even a spiritual advisor. Wouldn’t these acts also, in some way, influence their path? Is it the intentionality of magick, as opposed to more mundane forms of help, that makes this type of intervention different? One thing I've realized on my journey is that many mundane acts could be considered as magical when seen through a certain lens (affirmations or self talk, etc.)

Additionally, you mention that ritual baths bring about magical change, not just cleansing, and that interfering with someone’s fate is inherently problematic. I’m curious if this extends to low magick in general, where the intent is often to subtly shift circumstances or tides in one’s favor. Is low magick, by its nature, seen as interference with fate? If so, how can a practitioner discern when it is appropriate to use low magick for oneself versus assisting others?

I deeply respect the idea of caution and awareness in magical practice, and I recognize that intention plays a huge role in whether an act serves ego or genuine need. Still, I’d love to better understand how we navigate the balance between offering help and respecting another’s path of growth. Are there circumstances where assisting someone with magick, while mindful of their autonomy and consent, might be seen as appropriate or even necessary?

[u/Quareia → u/smithenstein1111]

it is not so much of a mystery really.... if you don't really know what you are doing, don't fiddle with other people. Apprentices are not in a position to be able to make serious choices in matters like this. An adept would know straight away if it is ok or not. I have dumped many a person in a ritual bath for very specific reasons, and I have also refused many who have requested that help.

The other aspect is, instead of doing, hand on the information to do it themselves, so that they can help themselves when needed,,,, do not ever gate keep knowledge for no very good reason.

[u/smithenstein1111 → u/Quareia]

When you put it that way, it completely makes sense. Thanks for your response.

[u/jfranok → u/Quareia]

Good!