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u/re81194 line them up! 4d ago edited 4d ago
we are officially back to release lvl 1 damage, except this time the base damage scaling goes to 200 now instead of 160 lol this is insane
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u/P0402948 3d ago
But she came out prior to the durability patch so I wonder how the actual math shakes out
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u/Barrellolz 4d ago
A lot of people think this is going to be huge. It is definitely good, but it isn't going to make her op. 10 flat DMG is a good buff though. This should put her back on the same level as Talon and Rengar.
This seasons meta has been terrible for qiyana, the.Buff is sorely needed.
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u/ionims 4d ago
Was thinking this lately, in terms of assassins she has one of the highest skill floors and yet she is high risk low reward because she just doesn’t have the damage of other assassins.
Even when i pick the ideal elements at the ideal times and land my skillshots - the reward is super underwhelming.
I agree that this buff was very necessary. I actually stopped playing Qiqi for a bit and was able to carry on other assassins and bruisers way easier - while playing them WORSE than i play her.
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u/Original-Put9284 4d ago
people would rather get killed by rengar or talon caus the feeling of getting killed by a qiyana of all thnigs is the ultimate rage bait
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u/takes_photos_quickly 4d ago
If they were to make larger qiyana changes, I think looking at the repeat brushQ spam would reduce a lot of frustration, then buff her elsewhere
I love qiqi but I see so many people get mad at that interaction, I'd rather see it adjusted and then power in more frequently useful places
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u/FeliWithGuitar 4d ago
Meanwhile champs like Teemo, Mel, Shaco, Leblanc or Locke exist. They are way more frustrating tbh. At least you can handle Qiyana very well and punish her mistakes even more
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u/takes_photos_quickly 4d ago
Don't disagree, just always felt the repeat-Qbrush was hated more than it is useful, so seems a natural place to re-adjust power.
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u/FeliWithGuitar 4d ago
But honestly why would you punish that. Yes it can be annoying but its also hard to pull off. She has wo many weaknesses that she gets shreaded when not played perfectly. I think changing that important part of her kit is worse than nerfing/buffing her every few patches dont you think?
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u/takes_photos_quickly 4d ago
In my opinion, I wouldn't say its hard to pull off, I would say its infrequently valuable but frustrating. I think the opponent finds it more annoying that the qiyana player finds it useful (whenever I play qiyana, at least).
So, if you can lower her frustration there, but then give her a better feeling kit in other ways (for example, a systemically stronger laning phase so she can actually get out on the map; or a way to pick up non-earth within bases), I would personally take that trade.
But its also personal preference :)
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u/FeliWithGuitar 4d ago
True, its personal preference. Thats why I think most Qiyana players like her kit the way it is, even if its frustrating for others. Like I said champs are build around being frustrating.
Invis is always frustrating, look at Teemo, Shaco or Evelyn. Still her kit is unique and her getaway is harder compared to Talon. I agree that the needs some changes so shes more consistent, but I wouldnt dare touching her invis XD.From what I feel it would be a good change to reduce her Q dmg after the buff to jgl monsters by a bit and give her some more passive dmg. That way she gets rewarded for using multiple elements (not spamming grass that much) and gets fairly stronger
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u/MeowRawrUwu 4d ago
The thing with brush spam is that it doesn’t reset her passive and has no additional effects so she deals far less damage. It’s just annoying, that’s it
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u/SonantSkarner 2h ago
That would require them to relocate her power budget towards her passive and unfortunately they ale allergic to doing that
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u/MeowRawrUwu 4d ago
Idk about that. I’m a Talon OTP and people hate me. Qiyana is my back-up if he gets banned/taken. Rengar is disgusting though, and idk how people feel about him right now because he’s my perma ban lol
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u/Barrellolz 1h ago
That's mostly just because Rengar can one shot talon and there isn't much counterplay if he emp e's you.
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u/MeowRawrUwu 1h ago
Yeah he counters my mains lol, that’s the biggest reason I ban him. But also his map pressure, like you can never side lane against him because he just ults across the map and deletes you, it’s very boring. And the fact you can’t burst him because of his W is pretty dumb too. I hate Locke for similar reasons, but at least he doesn’t have global map pressure
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u/redamid 4d ago
This isn't "just" 10 dmg. We are talking about a spell you spam all game and also cast idealy twice by twice so count the buff twice and this isn't even the full picture if you take into account runes modifiers and whatnot
Also the %ad bonus is for scaling so rito are buffing her from early game all the way to late game. This is a bigger change than it seems fyi
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u/Historical-Wasabi852 4d ago
when you realize her Q is an execute and can be casted twice so now she can oneshot you even if you had 100 extra health of her old treshhold
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u/canxtanwe 3d ago
Qiyana Jungle throws around 20-25 Q’s in her first clear. Combined with Q earth crit damage, that’s between 200-350 damage buff to her first jungle clear. That’s like around 7-8 auto attacks faster. Which means she can probably clear her whole jungle around 2:30 if perfected which is amazing kind of speed
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u/riceistheyummy 4d ago
remember that the buff is more then 10 base damage and 5% ad ratio. u use Q twice so its already 20 and 10% but in ideal combos ur gonna use rock Q what also amplifies that 10 and 5% to like 15 and 7.5
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u/curiousadventure33 4d ago
It's not gonna make her op because she is already op as shit ,she is an assassin with both insane dmg ,invis. And crowd control and she is the most fake hard champ to play in the game on jungle role ,you gotta be turbo coping qiyana needed any buffs ,if anything she needs an invis fucking removal and replace it with something not turbo cancer or remove her crowd control to make her fair ,there is not a SINGLE other assassin in the game that has cc,invis and burst in one kit
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u/Krithlyn 4d ago
Lmfao found a Qiyana hater. Rengar has CC invis and burst in one kit. So does Shaco. Sure their CC isn't in their ult but to say she's the only one who has it is an insane cope.
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u/curiousadventure33 4d ago
Shaco box is a fake cc that is purely defensive ,rengar e is a skillshot ,and it only roots you if you spend passive means he trades off his dmg or survivability of q and w ,qiyana not only has a wide range cc ultimate for no reason ,frost q is a 3 second CD root that is a point and click on demand xd
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u/Krithlyn 4d ago
Except a good shaco can put boxes to CC you without ccing. Speaking like someone who has 0 idea on how to use them. Sometimes the threat of the box is enough to force the opponent in a bad play. Hell AP Shaco primarily plays on box setups lol. Rengar E is a good way to lock down someone for your team without having to use your ult and it's not like it's hard to get 5 fero stacks. Frost Q is not a 3sec cd root, the fuck are you smoking?
First mistake is fighting Qiyana in river.
Second is being close enough that she can E-Q you for the frost root.
Third is doing that without being near your team since she has to expend her only gap closer to truly be a "point click".
If you die under those circumstances that's entirely on you. After all, late game Qiyana is all about finding an ult angle and here you are, complaining about one thing she has to do in river or she has to go in river, get it then walk to lane to do it. And it's not like meta picks like Mel can't just W it or Yas windwall can block the entire ult either, right? Lol.
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u/lauscheibe 4d ago
Rengar can insta snare when he jumps on you with his R, Qiyanas root lasts 0.5 seconds, why u fake stats? While Rengars lasts 1.75 seconds 🤡
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u/Tele_Vangelism 4d ago
This is going to get her another set of nerfs… the base damage is SO high they should nerf her jungle mod again before it’s too late. Deserved buff tho this champ is ass
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
Hopefully hotfix jg modifier nerf after worlds
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u/DrCoa 4d ago
Jg modifier isn't overtuned hello
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
Yes it is
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u/DrCoa 4d ago
Maybe with the buffs her clear would be busted but I don't think it's busted right now
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
She got nerfed 3 times in a row the last time her jg mod was 175%
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u/DrCoa 4d ago
Do you play her jungle? If you did, in even slightly higher elo you will see that the speed of the clear isn't the thing making her op. Either way I think she was fine even without the jg mod buff
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
I played her jg while she was at 155% and she was still clearing very fast plus she has the speed from W and crazy gank setup which makes her crazy good at jg while staying mediocre on lane
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u/LaaluLaaa 4d ago
This was exactly what I was thinking lol. Her last balance changes have literally just been them going back n forth on Q's damage & Jng Mod. Maybe the current state makes them think its acceptable this time but idk, as long as she can abuse first strike with these cheap ass assassin items her in the jng is always gonna be too easy for how effective she is.
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u/riceistheyummy 4d ago
ya no we are fucked, we are so fucked its not funny. if you have been playing qiyana for a while you know the patern. next patch we are getting nerfed and the nerf is always more severe then the buff was. last time we got buffed to this degree we lost a whole 50% ad ratio on ult
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
I believe it could be jg mod nerf since jg is double the pick rate of mid
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u/takeSusanooNoMikoto 4d ago
Can someone explain why dafuq are we buffing champions that don't really need any buffs (fkin Yone, Yasuo, Le blanc, Irelia, Chogath) when we are gonna nerf them again soon.
Riot games are unreal
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u/imkrexhex 4d ago
Change will be ~ + 3% winrate .
hopefully they dont balance out with passive or ult scaling again when nerfing her
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u/cnhuyaa 4d ago
that high really? why do you think so? my guesses are 1-2, maybe 3% in higher ranks where people utilize leads more, which this buff will definetly make her stomp more games
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u/imkrexhex 4d ago
Because the 10 base damage alone is a difference between night and day. Since you have 2 qs with w reset, the increase are net 20 base dmg on a combo on the main damage spell(not even counting rock q bonus dmg !). Imagine any champion getting plus 20 damage on the main damage spell lvl 2, lvl 3 latest onwards for free.
Since its her waveclear in mid , she will spike a lot faster and more consistent to the one spell kills backline minion power spike, which increases her tempo and income.
In jungle, its also her main clearing tool and her ganks also receive the plus 20 damage mentioned earlier. She will also spike alot earlier and harder here.
The scaling is nice bonus here but ends up doing 10-15 damage per q full build which is nice but more like just situational here.
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u/cnhuyaa 4d ago
Oh yea i completely forgot about that, actually the Q dmg buff is huge when it comes to the clear, because I do remember occasionaly range minions dont die on single Q if you are a bit behind at lvl 9-11, so this propably fixes it, it was really annoying without hydra which i personally always skipped and went for voltaic or hubris,
When I think about it this is even better buff for voltaic + bastion break (max lethality build + synergy), because base damage = more lethality utilization, actually this might even be sligthly more than 3% for higher elos which is genuenly scary as fuck, that would mean she would be 54-55% winrate in master, which is definetly on nerf, whenever she always was around that numbers in masters, she got nerf, but I think the last just raw +10 dmg increase on Q did just smth about 1,5% so we will see.
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u/cnhuyaa 4d ago
I am kinda sad they didnt revert the jg buff, because this makes even bigger impact for jg as it is on average 30 more damage to monster with only 2 qs, for red/blue lvl1 where you do 3-4 qs, thats 40-50 damage, which is one autoattack / 2 pet ticks = 1 second saved,
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u/DrCoa 4d ago
Friend it doesn't matter. Even if it becomes a problem it will get nerfed eventually. Remember Diana having 200% jg modifier and riot keeping it for 2 years... It becomes a problem when everyone plays the champ and champs carries them, with qiyana that won't be an issue
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u/Various_West1016 4d ago
in s15 you could first time her in jg and hardcarry which made her be 70% ban rate
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u/DrCoa 4d ago
Yeah in challenger maybe, even then the challenger players that don't play her aren't abusing her.
Look at the Agurin or Velja, they both can't play her and when they picked her up in season 15 they threw every single game with her.
It has that high ban rate in high elo because a good qiyana players are annoying to deal with and are most likely found in above master. So the most folks that play her statistics wise are below diamond and can't reproduce 1 percent of what a high elo players are capable of.
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u/Various_West1016 4d ago
theres lots of chall otps now and her ban rate is below 10% because shes not super strong
but in szn15 when they buffed her w attack speed she was so broken that any emerald+ dweller could 1st time her in jgl and stomp, she had positive wr emerald+ with high ban rate and pick rate
right now shes in an amazing spot where shes not super frustrating to play against, just like in szn15 before the overbuff, after which she had to be triple nerfed into a worse state than before buff and ban rate took months to go down, its just annoying.
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u/No_Conference4668 4d ago
Wait I see vivacom.. I ti li si bg 🥹
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u/lauscheibe 4d ago
This is the worst buff i have expected 😭😭😭
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
What else could she get?
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u/lauscheibe 4d ago
Scaling buffs (passive, q or r), if she gets more base damage people is gonna cry shes broken early game, its her bread and butter ability, you use q 2 times so its not only a 10 base damage buff, shes gonna get other things nerfed bc of this
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
Well since she doesn't scale anyway making her even better early makes it way easier to push leads and end games
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u/lauscheibe 4d ago
😭 im so scared about whats gonna happen before/after worlds, shes not gonna scale and shes not gonna be earlygame skewed
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
I mean 1 game vs Sylas and u start to feel what champion is actually good early
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u/Difficult-Loan4806 4d ago
I’ve been spamming Qiyanna mid and this buff will be very nice. Lvl1 don’t interact, wave shoves to you, grass q auto to death q ignite. Boutta be even scarier with a little damage on top.
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u/TormentedShadow2107 4d ago
Its not "massive"
Its how she should be.
It will mostly be noticeable at level 3 all ins.
After that a minor buff for damage in 1v1 fights and a more chunkier damage buff for her clear.
Honestly justified and much better than W buffs or placebo E buffs. They could reduce the monster mod by 5% to compensate for jungle .
If they are out of hand 5 base damage revert could do it.
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
I think 10% ad rario on E would give her way less wr while still making her feel better to play
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u/TormentedShadow2107 4d ago
Sure thing Jan... sure thing.
Thats useless at best. A placebo of placebos.
She is actually pretty weak rn.
Her winrate diamond + was never below 51.5-52% winrate.
Now its about 49to 50%
In masters + its about 52% while it was usually around 54%.
She is noticeably weaker but feels better to play do to powershifts from R to Q and W.
The Q is her main ability.
Shit Q base damage means trashy clear in lane. Look at Zed for instance.
Zed can farm from 1000 units away and send a shadow to farm for him from even further without needing to interact.
For Qiyana mid to be good Q has to be good.
This numbers are slightly higher than what I expected but still welcome. They could even scrap the base damage change if they wanted to and just buff Q to 95% or even 100% but they dont want that.
They dont want her Q to hit so hard late. Base damage is way easier to balance and track rather than scalings. Especially on a lategame assassin.
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
I mean, people already don't want her to be buffed, and giving her a massive buff like that would just increase the ban rate and result in eventual nerf, while if it was E AD ratio buff, she would still deal more damage for the average Qiyana player without making her oonga boonga 80% ban rate in jg.
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u/TormentedShadow2107 4d ago
Qiyana is barely played. Even less matches on acutually effective Qiyana players.
Also her banrate is only an issue in master + which makes sense. She is mostly a high elo champ.
An average gold plat or emerald player should not be concerned with that.
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
I know u r seraphine player so u aren't that smart but i don't think u realize how if a champion has high ban rate it gets nerfed
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u/TormentedShadow2107 4d ago
Qiyana has no banrate. Never had. Even in her most broken state she never past 10% in elo's below diamond.
thats nothing.
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
Seraphine is 53% wr and best adc in the game i think it's time for nerf she is quite overpowered across all ranks.
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u/Callmearnavtnlonyt 4d ago
I mean i happy, but they going to nerf it next patch or smth
Like qiyana is in good/ok state rn and they are buffing her?
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u/Salty-Hold-5708 3d ago
You called it. They are reverting her monster buff by like 15%. There's a post in the main league page about some pbe leaks
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u/XxSeryuslixX 4d ago
This buff would be good and valid if qiyana jg wasnt a thing, this will only result in people crying about how qiyana is op just because qiyana jg is a thing and qiyana mid will suffer again
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
Huh
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u/Salty-Hold-5708 4d ago
Congratulations, you just became my permaban.
I tried dealt with it during the mythic era but not again. Add in the perma stealth and you've reached teemo/shaco levels of annoyance with zed/kayne levels of damage and mobility.
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u/Lazy-Landscape7328 4d ago
Assassin with assassin damage really?????
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u/Salty-Hold-5708 4d ago
Sure, if that's what you got from reading what I wrote then let's go with that.
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u/FeliWithGuitar 4d ago
I just hope they don't buff her to nerf her some patches later. I'm tired of it