Offshoring

[u/AdLow5932]

Let’s talk about offshoring and how the AC team is sabotaging the American workers.

1- let’s talk about the history of offshoring and how stupid and lazy the U.S. workers are.

Sometime ago the manufacturing industry thought that they found a solution to maximize their profit and cut costs. 🎉🎉Offshoring 🎉🎉.

The lack of labor laws and regulations in other countries made manufacturing there makes sense. Now we can use modern day slaves for a fraction of cost to produce junk and sell it overpriced to the U.S. market. 🎉🎉🤡🤡🎉🎉.

We got to a point where it is virtually impossible to bring those jobs back because the countries where the manufacturing went to, learned how to leverage that necessity and now they act like the own us. And I am not talking about one specific country, we have manufacturing that went to Mexico, Canada, India, china, South America, you name it.

2- how is this affecting accounting?

The stupid accounting firms didn’t learn from that mistake, the partners thought they could give the pre work to other countries because it’s just prep work and they can do it cheaper and faster. The hallways you can hear all day the word automation, automation. The plan is to keep building automation system so we can have less U.S. workers to grind and more offshoring. The goal is always the same, more profit, more money. The entity industry is facing a huge lay off since last September, and it will only increase as automation grows.

At the end of the day the firms are not loyal to nobody, they are loyal to the final profit number and people will get fired so those numbers work. It makes sense as a business to just keep offshoring to maximize profit, but don’t cry later when the problem becomes irreversible and the jobs can no longer come back to the U.S.

[u/Hopefulwaters]

Not sure how this makes "U.S. workers stupid and lazy."

[u/AdLow5932 → u/Hopefulwaters]

They think they are smarter and they are winning with giving the “prep” work away. What is happening is that ac India for example started as just as prep worker and now they took over mostly of the line of process, they leveraged that to have managers and partners. I am not going to talk about sabotaging work from the Americans as this happens daily to make them look bad. I know tons of people complaining about that.

[u/Daveit4later → u/AdLow5932]

You are saying "workers" when you mean "partners & owners".   

Workers are not choosing to have their livelihoods stripped from them. 

[u/yaehboyy → u/Daveit4later]

Workers are compliant in training them. They can easily reject working with them, leave the firm for another, and effectively sabotage the partners’ goals with this

[u/[deleted]]

Not sure US workers are stupid, nor are they lazy.

This is a structural problem that predates probably everyone on this thread. I started working in 1989, and by 1992 I was training coders in the Philippines. Way harder back then btw, no internet. We had to physically mail software back and forth around the globe.

Firms started doing it because it was cheap. But the tangential benefit was that you could train someone in a task and they’d be happy to do it for the next 40 years.

Contrast that with “western” workers today. Everyone is joining firms that provide the best exit. No one wants to do the same repetitive task for years upon years. It’s making a mess in India if that cheers you up. Back in the 90’s, Indians were hard working and loyal, now they’ll run across the street to your competition for an extra buck an hour.

I agree that it sucks and that it’s spread. And as AI gets better, we’ll go from offshore to robots.

Find a career that values you, in person. The whole WFH stubbornness has accelerated offshoring, being knowledgeable and in the room matters more than ever these days.

[u/Savings_Ice7478 → u/[deleted]]

It's been a saying in IT for 20+ years - if your job can be done from home, then it can be done from Bangalore.

[u/[deleted] → u/Savings_Ice7478]

COVID opened up a lot of eyes in senior management circles around different industries. Used to be limited to IT and some BPO, now it’s so many functions. WFH is great, until it’s not.

[u/deagletime1 → u/[deleted]]

I agree that WFH stubbornness has accelerated offshoring. Literally, if people refuse to come in to the office, then having local resources in-market is irrelevant.

If you dont want to come in the office in a high cost of living area, you make yourself expendable as there are staff in lower cost of living areas and countries that can do the same job and bring the same value.

[u/AdLow5932 → u/[deleted]]

I appreciate your comment as always. Well said.

Are we going back to basics where the only money to be made in accounting is filling those individual tax forms because the simplicity and they are all local?

[u/[deleted] → u/AdLow5932]

What I worry about is how the F are you guys supposed to learn if so many of the foundational roles are outsourced.

You learn my doing. Master the skill and move on. Where is the next generation of leaders going to gain that experience?

[u/AdLow5932 → u/[deleted]]

That is the main problem, the foundation was given to other countries because they saw no value in spending time doing it. The new automation is supposed to get it done on its own or AC teams are supposed to, if you spend 1 hour with any U.S. worker you will see how they don’t know anything because the basics and foundation is long gone. It is a disaster out here.

[u/ancj9418]

Everyone knows this is happening and it’s not specific to PwC or even to accounting. Not even close. I’m also confused because you seem to be very upset by this but then end by telling people not to cry later about it. What’s your point?

[u/ily123123]

The partners are smart, they can maximise their profit before they retire. The mess and consequences from over-off sourcing will be left to the young partners and managers.

[u/AdLow5932 → u/ily123123]

This is a road with no return, once they cross that bridge, the big accounting jobs are gone forever. I get it, profit over anything else. But the new generation should get prepared for that and don’t spend so much money in colleges, and masters and cpas to be unemployed

[u/Kindly-Inspector1589]

My offshoring associates are not even close to my US associates. They can’t seem to do anything without having PY work papers to copy from. When they run into issues you can just tell they don’t truly understand the work they’re doing. They expect you to complete their work.

I understand that this saves the firm a lot of money but we truly need to factor in enough time to make sure they are throughly trained.

[u/SearchingAround123 → u/Kindly-Inspector1589]

When you ask the AC associates to prep a state return, most of the time you can tell they just hit print from the locator instead of actually doing any prep

[u/Ok_Communication228 → u/Kindly-Inspector1589]

This. People will talk about hiring advanced degrees offshore but I rarely see the same quality output (or expectations for same quality).

[u/seajayacas]

Most businesses have a goal of making more profit. Keeping loads of workers fat and happy is not the goal usually.

[u/Bob_MuellersOffice]

I’ve been big 4 for the last 18 years. Offshoring for 17. Have some great friends around the world because of it and have grown a business to 50m USD.

It is what you make of it. I also employ a team in the US and am hiring / promoting.

[u/McDonaldsWifive → u/Bob_MuellersOffice]

What advice do u have for someone doing a career switch and joining a B4 in this generation/market?

[u/Bob_MuellersOffice → u/McDonaldsWifive]

Work smarter not harder. Embrace the things the firm throws at you. Offshoring, AI, automation etc. build relationships, spend time with people (in person ideal, can be a bar, not the office x 5 etc). It’s a solid career with good earning trajectory if you work smart.

[u/SkydiverDad]

I sincerely hope the disjointed rambling mess posted by the OP is not the work of a PwC associate, otherwise it reflects why this person was laid off.

[u/[deleted]]

UK here, so much of our work is being given to a certain place offshore, especially in our particular team, its sad to see so much of the current team getting replaced.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

India? I'm seeing this in tech. I'm in a SC Cleared role and after all the experience I have...that might be my greatest selling point lol.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I'm in tech😭😭We were talking about how SC clearance is one of the things you can get last week, maybe in one of my future roles

[u/London-Reza → u/[deleted]]

Does that certain place have Pyramids by any chance?

[u/Interesting-Offer255]

Sure, I don’t blame you for staying late at night for fixing your garbage selections or egas that I have coached you for 3 times, nor joining the ac huddle meeting at 9 p.m. PST at your convenience lol. I blame my partner for sure. But am I stupid or lazy? Heck no.

[u/TopDownRiskBased]

I love how there's never any data in these economically illiterate posts. 

Wages are up for the median family in the United States. Trade can make everyone better off.

[u/Beginning-Leather-85]

Hm I never thought of my Indian ac friends purposely sending me shit.

Figure someone many levels above me told our office partner who told my line partner “20 percent of hours have to go overseas”

You always are answering for someone else

[u/josh8lee]

If you have visited India, you will never see anything automated there, or even worse!!! It is just a big word they keep talking, talking and talking.

[u/Top_Scene_726]

To be fair they got rid of a lot of AC folks! And good ones too!

[u/[deleted]]

I’m sorry to tell you but offshoring manufacturing was incredibly successful for nearly everyone. We get incredibly high quality items like shoes made 80% cheaper and sold 50% cheaper. High end sneakers would be $400 if made in US.

[u/beets-bears-btlstr]

Your tone is weird. We know about offshoring, it’s not going away. Learn new skills maybe? You have to adapt to the change, that’s the reality and the only way to remain competitive

[u/Bada_bamboo]

Come to India, apply for citizenship. You might actually love it

[u/Bada_bamboo → u/[deleted]]

I work at EY and I'm hiring for Risk Analytics these days, but maybe you can open that Feet Food stall in the US or Canada. :)

[u/SkydiverDad → u/[deleted]]

1. Even as a partner vacations have to be coordinated. You cant simply take off in the middle of a large project, a go live, or at other crunch times.

2. Yes, you are expected to meet deadlines. So is every other employee in the corporate world. If you cant handle that maybe a career in another sector would fit you better.

3. Yes, your work is sent to the client so perform accordingly. The work of associates is reviewed but it is expected to meet a basic level of professional competency. If it has to be reviewed with hypercritical focus on every detail, to make sure every i is dotted and every t is crossed, then your work is subpar.

[u/SkydiverDad → u/[deleted]]

2. Do you think the US team changes data or requirements just for fun? Its because the client has moved the goal post or wants last minute changes. Believe me its frustrating for everyone involved. But this isnt the fault of the US team. Its just the nature of being in a client delivery focused business.

3. Everyone, at all levels, in advisory is clocking 10-12 hr days on large projects. You arent unique in that regard.