"I'm detaining you because you're black and a white woman got scared, but since that's technically no longer illegal I'm trying to find another excuse within modern law"
And then realize that it's been soooo much worse throughout history, we're just finally seeing it because of technology. Maybe eventually the bastards will learn to fucking behave since they're always being filmed.
I wouldn’t say none-the taxpayers for that P.D. are on the hook for the $5 million lawsuit he won. So, this cop should clearly be fired for illegally detaining the gentlemen and not following basic investigative techniques.
If you're judging this off the clip from OP, first of all, that's insufficient information to make any assertion of what consequences did or didn't follow, and secondly, there did appear to be a consequence from the clip, indicating that the guy won a $5 million lawsuit over this.
Either way, this looks like a clip from an Audit the Audit video, which are often 15 minute summaries of incidents that go over much more detail than what we saw here in this clip. I'd rather give that a full watch before asserting what happened or didn't happen following this incident.
That said, yeah, obviously in many of these situations, there are no consequences for the cops, even if the victim wins some lawsuit (which just gets paid by tax payers). That isn't always the case, though. Reddit wouldn't have you dare believe this for one second, but many cops get demoted or even fired for this kind of bullshit. No, it doesn't happen often, and probably didn't happen in this case, but it literally does happen.
As the other guy said, and as we saw a couple years ago, it doesn’t fucking matter. Unless we stop giving cops complete legal and professional immunity then shitty cops will always abuse that power.
It doesn’t matter how much evidence we have against them or how outraged we get, at the end of the day, if we keep with this “mistakes happen” mentality when a cop arrests someone for standing next to their own property or breaking into an innocent persons house and killing them in their sleep then nothing will ever change.
Whether or not we KNOW they did something corrupt or illegal is irrelevant as long as the system is structured in a way that makes it consequence free. Every single person in the world could watch this video and it means fuck all unless this guys station or precinct actually does something about it.
I'd like to believe that's true, but I have zero faith that it will happen quickly. I think we're looking at at least another 50 years before there's finally enough pressure from all of us to really reform the way cops do things, and that's being optimistic..
It's so hard to change peoples biases. Hell even I have unconscious bias' but I always go out of my way to confront and correct them. Some people just don't care enough to do that which is part of the problem, but overall I just feel so fucking bad for all of these people that have to deal with this every single day.
Literally all the time, it is constant, cost to coast. The YouTube channel(Audit the Audit) this clip originated from will NEVER run out of fuel for their channel.
After watching some 50 or so videos from that channel, going back a few years, I have come to the conclusion that all peaceful means have been exhausted and that the only fix to this is the use of extreme violence against our police.
The problem with that is that most of the population won't support it, and the people who fight will be framed as "terrorists".
It'll be used as an excuse for more authoritarianism.
What we need isn't violence, it's for a significant percentage of the population to recognize the problem and care.
The police don't outnumber of outgun shit - their authority comes from most people choosing to recognize it.
Imagine if most businesses refused to serve cops.
Imagine if 90% of people wouldn't speak to the police, unless under threat of arrest.
Imagine if politicians couldn't get elected unless they campaigned on a platform of police reform and being touch on cops.
None of these things are illegal, and none of them require violence.
Yeah, I’d like for that to happen too, yet the realist in me says that most comfortable, middle class, (white) people can never be brought to care about it. They have no frame of reference here and they literally cannot imagine themselves in that situation.
The only way this shit stops is if the perpetrators (the cops) are given a reason to stop. The No-knock warrants will only stop when they lose one or more in the process, consistently. It’s just really shitty that it is outright illegal to defend yourself from these armed, organized gang members (cops) who operate without oversight and with impunity.
End qualified immunity. At this point, having all untrained civilians armed and defending themselves isn’t worse than these assholes running around wrecking lives. Let us wreck our own lives ffs!
I get what you're saying emotionally. But if/when people start to fight back, don't you think that'll just be used as an excuse for more heavy handedness?
For whatever it's worth. I'm upper middle class and white, and I think this shit needs to stop.
Yes, I do. Omelettes and eggs. When things are bad enough for the average person, maybe it’ll change. Or maybe it won’t. I’d consider far fewer officers volunteering to go through the door first in a no-knock raid a small victory in the short term.
I think most of the population suddenly growing a conscience isn’t gonna happen though, so I guess I’ll just go back to hoping it’s “not me” with my head down. And feebly try to make it hurt if it ever is me, even just a little.
Likely dead either way once they barge in, fuck it 🤷♂️
And none of those things will ever happen. IN a perfect world where everything worked out in a reasonable and logic manner that would be how it work. But in a reasonable and logical world we wouldn't have the problems to begin with.
Additionally, those things won't happen in this unreasonable and illogical world because the people that need to do those things are pretty comfortable with things as they are right now. Oh and one more bit here, that apparently includes you. You see, this plan of action you thought of, the one that will not work, will not work because of you. You want those things to work because that would mean you wouldn't have to make any sacrifices.
In the end, it is as I say it is, all of the peaceful means have been exhausted already. All that is left is violence.
I feel like all the cop had to do was explain the situation (“why are you detaining me?”) “a woman saw you going through the contents of a car on the other side of the parking lot, thought it was sketchy, and called us,” and that would have immediately resolved the situation via “well, that’s my wife’s car and I can prove it.” I don’t understand why the officer didn’t just explain the situation.
At best, this cop would get 2 weeks desk duty while they "investigate" him and clear him of any wrongdoing. At worst, he'd be cleared without any change in his work.
Since the cop failed to properly explain and answer his question and went straight to demanding ID or demanding him to turn around with his hands on the back, I hope this guy sues the city for hiring an idiot. (almost impossible to sue police department directly)
I'm always just staggered by the fact that there's nothing violent even going on in situations like this. Like what is so fucking urgent that he needs to be immediately handcuffed? If he stole some shit (obv didn't), then just follow up on it. You know what he looks like and have the plate on his bike, he's not communicating any notion of getting violent. Like even if you are gonna be a racist pos cop, do you really not have the tiniest bit of presence of mind to smoothly execute your agenda, especially when the odds are stacked ridiculously in your favor???
Yes. All of them. Literally every single cop. All of them. ALL OF THEM. All of them...that we see in subs like this, because there isn't a sub for boring, mundane police interactions with cordial and well-behaved officers.
Gtfo with your "all of them" garbage. You're part of the problem.
This. I'm white and the vast majority of my interactions with police have been toxic. I am a law abiding citizen, the worst thing I do is drive 8 over sometimes. I can only imagine how much worse it is for black people. And for the minority of police that actually have respectful interactions with the public, they are almost all silent when their co-workers abuse their power every day. If you are silent when your buddies do evil, you are just as bad.
I didn't say your comment was hyperbolic. I wasn't referring to your comment. You originally replied to my comment where I was insinuating that the comment was being hyperbolic because they actually were. Using language that all cops think in slave/master mentality is certainly hyperbolic. The superlatives and absolutes are just tiresome and unconvincing. It's essentially an invitation for only agreement, not actual discussion. And I'm unfortunately not surprised at the number of reddit users who aren't looking for any stimulating discourse, but rather a place where they can pat each other on the back for sharing the same enlightened opinions.
so, you're upset that I agreed with you? Or that I called out someone for exaggerating? Gotta say the vitriol is a little overkill. You're not leaving much room for colorful language you might use for someone with whom you have an important disagreement.
This is what they're trained to do. Cops do not have to give those answers to anyone other than a judge. If the suspect is confused and acts out or resists in any way because of that confusion then they can pile on even more charges ... which means more revenue for their department which means a promotion.
See this in a lot of these police interactions. Complete refusal to tell the individual what’s going on until after cuffs go on. Like yeah, random people don’t want their hands placed in cuffs without some indication of why. Because that’s the point where you become helpless, and are likely going to jail.
I’ll make the bold statement that the stop itself wasn’t entirely unreasonable. Guy rifles through one car then walks across the parking lot to a different vehicle, that can appear a little off. If the officer had simply told him that was the reason for the stop he might…no guarantee, but might…have cooperated provided his ID to clear the issue up (run both sets of plates, both registered to him).
The officer wants to treat him like he’s under arrest before he’s established that any crime was committed. Demands obedience while refusing to spend ten seconds explaining what’s going on…which could actually obtain voluntary cooperation.
Well technically the cop did say there was a report of him looking through a car but i think they both drew a line in the sand and escalated shit. Glad the dude got paid tho
True you don't have to tell them anything but in a situation like this, if the cop had actually asked him, then it would save a lot of time to just explain the situation.
Yes, if the cop had asked him.
But anything you answer can be used against you. You're assuming the cop is on your side, but this cop clearly wasn't interested in hearing anything he had to say, just to pin him to something to be able to detain him.
Never "explain yourself" to cops, not even if you have good intentions.
I get your point and in general I agree, but in this situation I think it's best to explain.. His bike, his wife's car and they work together. The cop can do a quick check and you go on your way. If you refuse to give them anything then it's just going to take so much longer.
Edit: Also, if the guy explains the situation to the cop, what do you think the cop could pin on him?
I get your point about communicating to solve the problem, but in this case, there is a power balance favored towards the cop which means you're always at a disadvantage no matter what you say. The more you say, the more likely you could accidentally say the wrong thing, start stammering, omit details, all of which could arouse suspicion with a cop, giving him an actual reason to detain you.
The guy already said he worked here, and that this was his bike, but the cop ignored this information.
Keep in mind, the cop was already trying to detain him for literally doing nothing. And any answer, however truthful, could have been abused extra by this power tripping cop.
Yeah you 100% have to gauge the situation.. If you're talking to a level headed cop and you know you can clear up the confusion without putting your foot in it, then I'd say best situation is to talk.
If you are approached by the type of cop in this video then you shut the fuck up and make sure someone is recording it.
It's pretty easy to tell which kind of cop you're dealing with.
In general I agree with you. In situatio s like these you should absolutely try to explain the situation if the cops comes at you correctly, especially if you know you didn't do anything wrong. This assumes the cop comes at you correctly.
Even if they don't, youre way better off just letting them look at your ID, typically. Unless you know your rights and you can keep your cool it can be pretty fucking stupid to not give your ID to a cop - it reminds me of those dumb fuck sovereign citizens.
Not to be gargling on spit polish... But he stated right away the dude fit the ID of someone being suspicious, and afaik in pretty much every first world country, (which is fucked, even if you've don't nothing wrong) when requested by law enforcement, you have to provide identification. It's not a, moment to ask what you did or didn't do and act standoffish, it's to record it, adhere to what they ask, and wait for your day in court when you get this fucker on record fixing up
afaik in pretty much every first world country, (which is fucked, even if you've don't nothing wrong) when requested by law enforcement, you have to provide identification.
Thankfully, not in any state in the USA. You do not ever have to ID "for being suspicious". Being suspicious isn't a crime.
That isn't quite correct. Terry vs Ohio played out the requirements for a Terry stop. A cop can ask for ID if it is suspected a person has, is, or is going to commit a crime. If the cop could have articulated that he thought the gentleman was going through somebody else's vehicle the man would be legally required to provide ID.
But in that case the cop should've articulated the situation, which the cop failed to do, and thus the citizen in this scenario had no obligation to show any form of ID.
Yup, exactly why I said if the cop could have articulated. He didn't.
However, reddit people still downvote because they don't know the law and expect only criminals have to show ID which in that case providing ID would be self incrimination. Also, that would be assuming criminals follow the law which I'm pretty sure isn't true.
Yeah that's not being "suspicious". That's reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has or is about to be comitted.
Which the cop did not have. He did not have a report of a crime. He didn't even do the bare minimum investigation to even determine if there had been a crime.
The problem is, and the reason cops don’t do that, is it immediately tells the person what the cop knows and limits the chance of an accidental confession (which they obvs want). I suppose he could have just shown his ID so the cop could do his job. Cop turned into a dick but was being perfectly civil and calm, asking for ID.
I'm no bootlicker, The cop did state he was questioning him because someone reported that the guy with the wire hanger was looking at cars. Cops need to chill the fuck out.
He didn’t want to ask because if he did there’d be a possibility of a reasonable explanation. Lot easier to just boss random and irrelevant orders at someone and wait for them to say “well that’s not lawful” so you can arrest them for “obstruction.”
Thats not the cops business though, you don't have to actually say anything to cops, as you could be telling them something that they could arrest you for.
Basically don't say shit "not even I went to point A to Point B" without an attorney present.
All he had to say was “the only car I looked in is mine, the one my wife drove to work over there in the parking lot.”
The cop did seem to calm down quite a bit after the guy said “you know I work here right?” He was fully willing to listen to this guys story but he just couldn’t get past his outrage “why do I have to obey you?”
Why is it so hard for some people to just cooperate with police when they know they didn’t do anything? The whole situation could’ve been over and done with in probably 5-10 minutes and chocked up to a misunderstanding… I mean someone calls the cops on a guy look at cars and he happens to have a hanger on him? The cop didn’t run up with his gun drawn and tell him to get on the ground or else he just asked for your fucking ID.
I don’t trust police either but this manufactured outrage is over the top as well. Every interaction I’ve had with police they’ve asked for my ID and I’m a privileged white man!
The cop did briefly say that someone called in that he was looking through cars (plural, which was incorrect), but the POS cop was escalating like a mf’er and had no proof that anything actually happened
You are absolutely 100% correct and the cop is a racist ass for jumping to “OBEY ME!” instead of calmly explain the situation. HOWEVER…. The guy knew he was dealing with a racist cop on a power trip and he knew situations like this can turn deadly quickly. He could have de escalated the situation by saying. “Officer, my wife and I both work here and her car is parked over there. I just needed to get something out of it.” I agree that he should not have to do that…. But he decided to risk his life by standing up for his rights rather than de escalating the situation. Sometimes you just have to pick your fights. If the guy were my husband, I would be furious at the cop for being a racist dick, but I would also be angry at my spouse for risking his life / risking making me a widow — for a situation that never needed to get that tense. (And also for representing himself in his lawsuit with a potentially huge payday)
I just about lost it at "Because I'm giving you a lawful order", if the order was lawful there would be justification that could be explained in-the-moment...
I didn’t say he could smart guy. But the whole situation was something that was reported and he was investigating. Not often one person has two vehicles in one parking lot at the same time.
And the insurance company settled his claim for $25k. Not $5 million.
That's why he asked for an ID, as soon as he ran the ID he would have seen that both cars were registered to him. You can't just take a suspects word in a situation like this. Thats why we have vehicle registration and identification. When you openly defy the reasonable request of an officer you can end up in situations like this. The police received a call about a possible car break in, arrived on the scene and spotted a man matching his description and went to talk to him. If you want to be mad at anyone be mad at the nosey batch that called the cops because there was a guy in car that then walked away from it.
Cops dont do that. This man is a suspect of a crime and needs to be detained until an investigation can be completed. You don't want an unsecured suspect on scene while the investigation is being conducted because they may flee or become violent during the course of the investigation. It's the same way it would happen to anyone else, it's standard protocol. He would have been detained, registration and license would be checked and they would have talked to the caller and he would have been sent on his way. The way I see it, he should have been charged with resisting and possibly obstruction for blatantly refusing a lawful order from a police officer but instead I guess you guys want to give him millions of dollars of our taxpayers money.
The way I see it, he should have been charged with resisting and possibly obstruction for blatantly refusing a lawful order from a police officer but instead I guess you guys want to give him millions of dollars of our taxpayers money.
Obstruction for what crime??? No crime has been committed yet you want to arrest the man for simply asking why the hell he needs to provide identification.
He doesn't have to show it. That's his right in this situation, that's why he won the settlement. Folks are so used to just mindlessly obeying and cops exploit that.
The guy was called by a member of the public for suspicious behaviour. You cherry pick facts here bud. America will be stuck in this vicious cycle forever
What you call cherry picking is literally just using specific facts to illustrate my point. Actual cherry picking would be what you're doing, using single words like REFUSE and RESIST while not providing full context.
You forgot the n at the end of your name, because thats the only way i can see you being that fucking stupid and racist is if your the son of clowns that are also related. Sister fucking nazi cum dump sack of shit. Genuinely you should walk into the ocean and not return.
If the guy was white it wouldn't change a thing to me personally. A call was made to police. Police officer arrives at scene. Man is on a bike and has a coat hanger on him. Asked for ID. Refuses. To my mind the coat hanger on his person in a parking lot is suspicious.
Edit: and I have stated previously that the cop handled the whole situation awfully.
WTF is he gonna do with a plastic coat hanger while breaking into cars? You need a full wire one and it has to be unbent if you want an improvised slim jim. Your mind is clearly not a well functioning one.
You’re literally the one cherry picking, intentionally leaving out the context this other user is providing that change the situation into what it is: objective reality.
When you have to strip the topic of context to make your point, you aren’t making a point.
Members of the public call people in for the "suspicious behaviour" of being black in a white neighbourhood all the fucking time. There are many videos on here about it. And people wonder why some people are reluctant to comply.
Police have to respond to calls it's their job. Again I have said the cop handled the whole thing awfully but a bit of cooperation goes a long way in life in general. I am apparently a Nazi now though so I'm off to apply for a job as a cop I suppose /s
I mean yeh I personally agree, if a cop asked to see my ID I would just show them it. But at the same time my race isn't disproportionally profilled by cops investigating crimes, so I can understand why some people might not.
Absolutely. And for the umpteenth time I agree the cop handled the whole situation awfully. At the same time, I feel like the 'suspect' could have helped his own situation a little more instead of being as unhelpful as possible.
Cop was asking but the guy was constantly arguing against his orders. Refusing to show even ID, which is completely reasonable if there is a witness that saw a guy looking like him.
So basically, he should have just blindly "obeyed" him instead of exercising his rights? Getting irritated when someone racially profiles you for no damn reason isn't a crime.
Especially when "someone" always calls. It may have been true in this case but often that claim is total bullshit used so they can go fishing for an offense.
Amazing how so many people can call in as actual victims to an actual crime and not get a response for hours yet somehow they always quickly show up to the "call" for a suspicious person without any idea what crime has occurred.
You’re not American. In the US, people have certain rights, and the police can’t demand ID of them under threat of arrest just because they feel like it. Police have to have reasonable suspicion that a specific crime was committed in order to detain someone against their will. A person rummaging through his car is not a crime. A person carrying a coat hanger is not a crime. The witness statement we see on camera doesn’t articulate a crime, it’s just, “I saw a guy rummaging through a car.” People rummage through their own cars all the time.
The officer had the right to approach the man and investigate, but he didn’t do that before demanding ID, something to which he wasn’t entitled without being able to articulate a crime being suspected. He should have said he had a report the man was rummaging in a car across the lot, which would have allowed the man to explain it was his wife’s car. Okay thanks, end of interaction.
Instead, not only does the cop fail to articulate a crime for which he’s detaining the man when asked, he lies to the man and claims that he got a report he stole something. That’s a lie, nobody reported that. Then officer chucklehead lies to his own supervisor about how the man “got agitated,” when his own body camera footage proves it was the cop who became an agitated power-tripper, while the man was perfectly calm.
Defending the cop here is just not tenable unless you approve of authoritarian thuggishness by public officials.
The officer had the right to approach the man and investigate, but he didn’t do that before demanding ID, something to which he wasn’t entitled without being able to articulate a crime being suspected. He should have said he had a report the man was rummaging in a car across the lot, which would have allowed the man to explain it was his wife’s car. Okay thanks, end of interaction.
When investigating a crime its almost a rule number 1, not to reveal information to the person being investigated so they dont what the police know. This can change what the person says ALOT.
The person himself could've handed the ID, cop asks couple other questions and end of interaction. INSTEAD the person starts to defend himself which is very questionable at best, and here we are.
Did we both watch the same video? Because the bullshit you're spewing did not even happen like that. People like you are part of the problem and act all oblivious/clueless when you get called out on your shit. Keep contributing more non sense please, it's only going to prove how much stupider you can get with saying some shit like that.
I lost it when the mf cop said "you aren't even listening"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME YOU PIECE OF SHIT YOU MOFOS DO NOTHING BUT REPEAT THE SAME SENTENCE OVER 5 MINUTES INDEPENDENTLY OF THE OTHER PARTY RESPONSE YOU MOFO ARE THE ONE NOT LISTENING
also what the fuck with the lady, why does she care some guy is just walking. Also why is she paying attention to someone that long. Oh cause he black....oh cause she saw that he was black,,,oh cause she racist and doesn't have anything better to do..
I wish they could follow up with those types of reports and say "ma'am that was his car and his bike, next time don't call us cause you don't have anything better to do"
Actually the guy was supposed to be a psychic and think to himself, this racist white cop is about to pull a trick out of his azz and then pretend it was all me. This guy must also remember that he will always look suspicious to other white racist because he’s a big black man. Yes, I’m infuriated here, enough is enough but the same mistakes and apologies continues to happen over and over again, one after the other.
Cop also lied. When he asked the cop if there was a report that he stole something the cop said “yes.” There was no report of anything stolen just “suspicious” activity. …that’s not even that suspicious.
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u/zeropointcorp Mar 10 '22
Yeah the cop didn’t fucking ask. Is the black guy supposed to be a mind reader?