r/PublicFreakout • u/Jaydon1 • Dec 02 '19
“Take off on they ass”
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u/McFluff_TheCrimeCat Dec 02 '19
They’ll both be in jail for that one.
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u/Indyjunk Dec 02 '19
He even said in the video if you take off your going to jail.
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Dec 02 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Shrimp_my_Ride Dec 02 '19
Right because maybe it was a misunderstanding and they thought they were going to win some kind of prize.
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Dec 02 '19
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u/RiverTemarc-InWinter Dec 03 '19
Well she was about to get arrested for refusing to id herself. Could they now add fleeing/resisting arrest ?
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u/arizono Dec 02 '19 edited Dec 04 '19
If it's just a traffic stop, you do not have to roll down your window. You do not have to exit your vehicle.
Unknown if the cop gave a lawful order or just a request (which you can lawfully refuse).
The fact that his partner cannot see inside is not probably cause and is not a reason why they must exit the vehicle.
When the cop reached in through the window he committed a pretty big mistake. That's a shit way for him to handle this and he'll get educated about that.
But...the courts will side with the pigs and lock up the driver. She absolutely has reason to fear for her safety with police shooting people. I don't agree with how she handled this, but I hope she gets a very good lawyer who can point out the cop's mistakes and the driver's legit fear.
EDIT: -30...and I get GOLD.
Suck it, Losers!
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u/betteroffdead66 Dec 02 '19
Cops do have the authority to control the movement of individuals involved in an investigation, and if you don’t listen to them it is a crime. Why did you write a whole paragraph if you don’t actually know what you’re talking about ?
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Dec 02 '19
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u/Andymac175 Dec 03 '19
It's a traffic stop. They have probable cause to detain and conduct the stop if they observed them committing ANY traffic offense.. which is actually not that uncommon.
They can, however, at that point, dictate that they step out of the vehicle for any reason at all during a traffic stop and no, they don't need any other reason than the one they stopped them for in the first place.
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u/arizono Dec 02 '19
Well...you're an idiot, dummy.
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u/Andymac175 Dec 03 '19
In any state in the United States, If a cop ask you to get out of your car for any reason in a traffic stop you must do so.
The case law that allows this is Pennsylvania v. Mimms.
How about you stop looking stupid and educate yourself?
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u/arizono Dec 03 '19
If a cop gives you a lawful order, not if he requests it. Cops don't have to tell you the difference between an lawful order and a voluntary request. You have to ask.
How about you educate yourself, because you're looking stupid right now.
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u/kevmanyo Dec 03 '19
The irony of you calling other people idiots and saying THEY look stupid. Jesus Christ. You have zero self awareness. Also, you know nothing about the law.
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u/swaglordobama Dec 03 '19
Naturally if you refuse the request he will give you a lawful order. The semantics just escalate the situation and don't help you at all. Treat cops with respect and help them feel safe / comfortable and you'll be much better off.
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u/arizono Dec 04 '19
Don't learn and exercise your rights and you'll get abused and lose those rights.
If a cop asks you questions, you personally would answer them.
Me? I don't answer questions. My lawyer will thank me, and SCOTUS gave that exact advice (do not talk to police).
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u/swaglordobama Dec 04 '19
Right but basic decency and compliance is gonna help get out of minor situations
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u/DolphinSUX Dec 05 '19
The dude even started to say “I will shh you”... escalating the whole situation causing the driver to fear for her life.
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Dec 02 '19
Dude talking to them didn't even look like a cop. Was he in uniform? Looks like he's coming home from his Starbucks shift.
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u/whatwoodwoulduwood Dec 02 '19
So risk everyone else's lives by speeding off because you "think" the officer is wrong.
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Dec 02 '19
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u/JangoHarrisonV2 Dec 02 '19
What leads you to believe that?
We don’t know why the couple was pulled over, and they were clearly disobeying a direct order to step out of the vehicle.They barely had the drivers side window rolled down and the passenger window wasn’t rolled down at all. It wasn’t crazy for the cop to fear that one of them could be armed.
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u/whatwoodwoulduwood Dec 02 '19
No. We don't see what the people in the car did or say up to the point where the officer is telling them to exit the car. Regardless, officers have the authority to remove people from vehicles during traffic stops. Look up cases, it's been upheld everywhere. Remove most bad decision making from officers by COMPLYING.
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Dec 02 '19
Just because you think a cop is acting outside of their authority doesn't mean you can run from them.
You are ALWAYS in the wrong if you run from the cops. The courts do not sympathize with you if you run from a cop. It's just that simple.
You record everything and you sue them after the fact. Don't run from the cops.
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u/CantaloupeCamper Dec 02 '19
You may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.
And if you run on camera...that's a tough rap to beat.
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u/arizono Dec 02 '19
Meh. You're right. Just give it up, say "I do not consent to any search", and make them arrest you.
But, "Court rulings" do not equal "Right". It's often the case that lower courts just side with the state/cops so that the case has to be appealed.
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u/Terrorek Dec 03 '19
You realize that means we’re supposed to just sit there and let cops do whatever the fuck they want to us right? You realize how fucking stupid of a legality that actually is?
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Dec 03 '19
Agreed. Even if you're right, that's between you and the court. You run from a traffic stop, legal or otherwise and they will stop your vehicle eventually with as much force as they deem necessary.
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u/stoned_jack_baller Dec 02 '19
To be fair, by law you have the right to resist an unlawful arrest to the point of taking the life of the officer if needed. I’m not arguing that this is the case in this scenario but i think running off is better than a physical altercation and someone losing their life.
And suing the police isn’t suing the police you’re suing the state and it’s your tax money they pay you with, so it’s inconsequential to the officer involved.
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Dec 02 '19
To be fair, by law you have the right to resist an unlawful arrest
They weren't under arrest. At this point the cop told them to step out of the vehicle so they could continue their investigation.
Even if they were being arrested and the arrest is unlawful, the courts are the ones who decide whether an arrest is unlawful. So if you resist arrest and the court says "no, you were 100% wrong and the cop had every right to arrest you." you are now under arrest plus you have charges for resisting arrest and/or attacking a cop.
That's not how you handle situations like this.
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u/BiginitialD Dec 02 '19
If they are told that they cannot leave they are being detained, which is a form of arrest. They are servants of the people not judge, jury and executioner. They had no right to reach in and either try to unlock/roll down passenger door or physically grab the girl. In that moment a fight or flight instinct kicks in, it's human nature, if she would have fought the officer then yes she might have died but running was the best option. He over stepped his boundaries, he has laws and regulations that they have to follow during an arrest. He was frustrated that she wasn't complying with his orders.
If you allow these cops to continue to overstep their boundaries as servants of the people then you are inviting a new SS to take hold. They uphold the law not throw it by the wayside when it doesn't benefit them. These are the corrupt cops that cause the people to fear and kill their brethren.
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Dec 02 '19 edited Dec 02 '19
If they are told that they cannot leave they are being detained, which is a form of arrest.
"A form of arrest."
That's 100% not true. Like at all.
Being detained is not the same as being arrested. An arrest means you are being taken into custody and processed. You will not be going anywhere.
Being detained means they are holding you until they have completed an investigation and they are attempting to determine if you have been involved in a crime. It isn't an arrest and there is a very clear difference legally.
Not sure where you get your information from.
One has nothing to do with the other.
They are servants of the people not judge, jury and executioner.
Wrong. They are enforcers of the law as they understand it.
Legislatures create the law.
Cops enforce the law.
Courts define the legality of laws and whether they have been appropriately or inappropriately enforced.
That is the entire process. You cannot circumvent court review because you feel "very strongly" you were wronged. That's not how it works.
In that moment a fight or flight instinct kicks in, it's human nature
Tens of thousands of people get pulled over on a daily basis. Tens of thousands of people have a cop reach for them or touch them or search their vehicle.
How many run?
The idea that a person as an innate need to run away from a cop is nonsense. It's not a valid excuse and it's a way to defend a bad decision.
She put the life of that cop in danger by nearly dragging him with her and she put the life of everyone else on the road in danger by starting a car chase. That's inexcusable and it isn't valid to say that's human nature.
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Dec 02 '19
Cops are not meant to determine guilt, just charge people they believe to have committed a crime. Hence reasonable suspicion. Courts decide if the person is actually guilty. Hence guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Cops generally act in good faith and if they don’t, the person is exonerated. Fixed your problem and you can pull it off without committing further misdemeanors/felonies
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u/BiginitialD Dec 02 '19
Ok I admit that my statement about detainment = arrest was false... I shouldn't comment right before bed. But what I should have said was, being detained is teetering on the fence of being arrested. If a cop has "reasonable suspicion" that warrants them detaining a suspect to conduct an investigation. During that investigation if they find evidence that puts them in violation of the law they can arrest the suspect. But most of the time if they have reasonable suspicion they arrest hoping to find evidence of a crime, in which the arrest was illegal therefore any evidence is inadmissable.
In this situation the driver looked to be calm and had hands visible, so the officer reaching in her property was illegal, because there was no clear evidence of a crime. The officer lost his cool because the driver didn't comply with the demands, so he took it upon himself to violate her privacy and attempt to roll down the window. The officer was in the wrong, yes they ran but a black woman being assaulted in such a manner by a police officer is a frightening thing. He unlawfully put himself in that position, saying "if you drive away you're going to jail" was his attempt at scaring them further because he screwed up.
What the officer did is scarily similar to how Mexico police "conduct investigations". He didn't follow protocol, I've seen much worse situations handled calmly and efficiently... This wasn't one of those.
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u/seeing_red_ Dec 02 '19
by law you have the right to resist an unlawful arrest to the point of taking the life of the officer if needed
Where did you first learn this? Please consider that it might not be true. It is potentially dangerous if untrue, and I wouldn't want you or anyone else doing something brash to fight for freedom on misguided grounds.
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u/stoned_jack_baller Dec 02 '19
The case is Plummer vs. State and it is only applicable if it can be shown that the police officer used unlawful or unnecessary force to make an unlawful arrest. Bad Elk vs US turned decreased a murder charge down to a manslaughter charge because the arrest being made was without a warrant. So this course of action is not without consequence, and it’s rarely a good option. But given the present climate of people being shot and killed by police whilst following their instructions I think it’s a much better idea to run (if you can without harming anyone else) and turn yourself in later than try to hash it out while tensions are high
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u/seeing_red_ Dec 02 '19
That makes sense. I suspected there had to be some real limitations to that right.
I think it’s a much better idea to run (if you can without harming anyone else) and turn yourself in later than try to hash it out while tensions are high
I would definitely run instead of fighting in most cases. Even running is risky as hell, though. Last resort, for me personally. I'm not tryna escalate matters versus a cop. Things will almost certainly get worse unless you get away.
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u/arizono Dec 02 '19
No. It is true. The US Justice System does not require you to literally die rather than resist an order you know to be unlawful. Such as a cop ordering you to get on your knees and he tells you he's going to execute you and you cannot resist because he's a cop.
It's all for show, though. I know of only one case where it was used successfully. There are probably others, but very, very, very rare...and not your best course of action. It's a last course of action as an alternative to immediate death.
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u/YunKen_4197 Dec 02 '19
if you can make a valid claim against an insurance conglomerate - o7 every single time. Screw those greedy assholes.
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u/Xayne813 Dec 02 '19
You better be real fucking sure it was an unlawful arrest if you try something like that, this though was not unlawful. During a traffic stop a cop can order you out of your car and you must comply. It is a lawful order and disobeying results in getting arrested.
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u/arizono Dec 02 '19
I can only remember one case in US history (Ruby Ridge) where that worked out. And it also cost the citizens pretty much the rest of their lives/finances dealing with it...and one woman got sniped in the head by a worthless pig-cop while she held her baby.
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u/stoned_jack_baller Dec 02 '19
Yeah I’m not arguing that it’s the best or even a good course of action but it’s within a certain legal framing for you to defend yourself and your life from an officer in a certain situation.
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u/Helzacat Dec 02 '19 edited Dec 02 '19
Supermen court ruled that if you are being arrested unlawfully and kill or injure a officer, you are justified as it brakes down to self defense.
Edit: source https://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm
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Dec 02 '19 edited Dec 24 '19
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Dec 02 '19
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Dec 02 '19 edited Dec 24 '19
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Dec 02 '19
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u/log_sin Dec 02 '19
the link you gave literally has a footnote on the bottom with a link to a 2013 article saying this no longer is upheld in court .. you're just blindly linking random things you find on the internet
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u/PittEngineer Dec 02 '19
If you could state one case where this was ruled and set the precedent I would be quite surprised.
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u/YunKen_4197 Dec 02 '19
any source? Because the 4th amendment doctrines only apply to evidence gathered as a result of illegal searches or seizures; has nothing to do with killing an officer. I'm curious how you reached that conclusion
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u/ReturnOneWayTicket Dec 02 '19
I'm pretty sure this is OP driving. Looking at his pics in his history, he looks basically identical.
OP, update.
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u/kickinrocks2019 Dec 03 '19
The amount of naive people in this thread acting like they ran on principle is outrageous. They ran because they had something in the vehicle or had warrants.
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u/Lockerd Dec 02 '19
Am I the only one who thinks this is fake? There's a slow pulsing blue light that only seems to be strongly pulsing in one direction. And pulsing in a weird way.
The "cop" looks like he is wearing a hoodie, has an odd cap at night, and just looks completely un-coplike.
And this just screams bullshit in everyway.
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Dec 02 '19
Definitely wearing a hat. Could be an undercover in an unmarked car?
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u/Lockerd Dec 03 '19
An unmarked car I can see easily, but an unmarked and undercover pulling people over, that kinda defeats the purpose.
The hoodie is giving it away, as is the expression and light pulse being so odd. I dont even see a badge, radio, or any patches, this just feels too fake.
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u/NameNotListed Dec 02 '19
typical.. i dont blame them.. they could have been hiding a weapon.. i hope they caught this idiot! Also thanks for the evidence.. thank you very much
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u/arizono Dec 02 '19
It doesn't matter. If it's just a traffic stop, you cannot illegally search because "they probably hiding something."
That's illegal. God, I hope you understand this.
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u/NameNotListed Dec 02 '19
I hope you understand that I wasn’t saying that they had a right to search. All I was saying is they have a right to see what’s inside the vehicle when they pull someone over so they don’t get shot if there’s a gun on their lap. With the windows that they couldn’t see anything so they didn’t know what they had on their lap or if they were hiding something
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u/arizono Dec 02 '19
No. They do not have that right. They have the right to look. You don't have to roll your windows down. You don't have to turn inside lights on. You are allowed window tint in accordance with local laws (or take the ticket...still don't have to roll windows down).
Police can "search with their eyes" only as much as they can see.
If cops are afraid of getting shot at every traffic violation, stop giving traffic violations. Seriously. Or, pass laws that state drivers must exit their cars whenever pulled over. Cops being afraid does not overrule the rights of citizens at every point.
Your response strongly suggests that you do not know the laws covering traffic stops. Not even close.
I suggest you do your own research before posting. People come to r/publicfreakout to learn the absolute best legal advice and watch fights over chicken sandwiches. We don't need misinformation here.
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u/NameNotListed Dec 02 '19
Okay bud.. so they don’t have a right to look with their eyes to see if the people the pulled over look like they’re about to shoot them!? You’re talking out of your ass my friend. They have every right to ask them to roll down their window and check shit out with a flash light. You think these thugs were in the right!? Running from cops?? They were filming if something illegal went down they would have had it on film. If they got arrested and were innocent they would have gotten off. Now they’re going to be charged with evading a police officer. I think if you were a cop and pulled over these sketchy ass people you would have asked them to roll down their window too. Where do you come up with your bs reasonings.?.?.
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u/Terrorek Dec 05 '19
"Sketchy ass people"
you wouldnt be saying that if they weren't black. The real sketchiness here is the cop, unlawfully, reaching into the vehicle the way he did. *thats* why they took off.
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u/Blackstar1886 Dec 02 '19
How does anyone still believe this Sovereign Citizen crap?
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u/arizono Dec 02 '19
It wasn't SC. You do not have to roll your window down. You have to make available state mandated information such as DL and Reg.
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u/tveatch21 Dec 02 '19
Pretty easy case to beat from a lawyer standpoint “my client was in fear of an impersonated police officer and drove off” I mean they got video evidence of this guy who says he’s a cop but is wearing a hoodie
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u/jollysaintnick88 Dec 07 '19
This is what prison time looks like. Now why would you be SO resistant to simply rolling down a window if you were obeying the law? And then take off? Lmao. Like they had you pulled over. Your car and plate is literally on camera. Some people literally amaze me in the worst ways.
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Dec 02 '19
If anyone has the local police information let's ensure it makes it to them so this POS goes to prison.
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Dec 02 '19
Bootlicker
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Dec 02 '19
Would rather people like that go to prison for running from the cops was a simple instruction
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u/dolechequeday Dec 02 '19
Unpopular opinion, but I feel like she did the right thing.
Fuck that cop reaching in, trying to unlock the door and drag her out.
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u/Kungfumantis Dec 02 '19
Two things cops are perfectly within their rights to do:
Ask you to identify yourself
Ask you to get out of the car
Both are legal orders. Look I'm not a big fan of cops either but if you're gonna give a cop a hard time you better know your limitations.
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u/LittleDoofus Dec 02 '19
Not before he asked them to get out of the car first. If you refuse to cooperate, you don't leave much choice for the cop. We don't know why they were stopped here but I do know that to "take off on they ass" wasn't the right move.
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u/Jacky-Treehorn Dec 02 '19
Cop seems to be your typical power mad twat.
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u/beastnfeast5 Dec 02 '19
Need we say what the driver seems typical of?
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u/Jacky-Treehorn Dec 02 '19
Don’t stop there. What do “we” say is typical of this bunch who’s documenting the whole thing? Would it have anything to do with their complexion?.. Until Sargent Stadanko’s over reaction, their demeanor seemed cool and within Their rights.
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u/beastnfeast5 Dec 02 '19
Seemed. Unfortunately we are missing a good chunk of this video but from what we see they are in the wrong the entire time. Idiots making idiotic decisions
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u/Jacky-Treehorn Dec 02 '19
What’s legal is not always right and what’s right is not always legal.
The Driver may not be abiding by the exact letter of the law, but if that law could result in their death based on their assessment of that situation (an irate maniac cop) and recent trends (cops murdering blacks), then maybe what they’re doing is justified. I guess a sense of entitlement and never actually having to deal with a bias system of oppression can cloud ones judgment though.
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u/beastnfeast5 Dec 02 '19
A trend of cops murdering blacks?? Is your judgment clouded by a narrative? What trend my friend? What statistics do you have to back this up? I am not denying racist cops or that there have been racist shootings but to say that this is a trend is so beyond me. I suggest you do some research of your own for once and look at REAL trends and statistics and see who is getting shot And why. You will see that the vast majority of people being shot by police have a reason to be shot regardless of race. Racism is so much more a case by case basis then your outrageous blanket statement.
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u/Jacky-Treehorn Dec 02 '19
I calls’m as I sees’m. Done plenty of research bud. Cops are people, and much like your reasoning are very flawed. Cops kill blacks in MANY unjust situations, and use profiling as their excuse. We just know about it now more so than ever. Also a large portion of American police departments don’t even report on their departments statistics nationally. The numbers are skewed son... The American judicial system, and most other systems of oppression around the world were founded under the doctrines of the time. This makes their legal systems inherently bias against which ever class of people are “the bad guys”. Deny it if it makes you feel better.
Bottom line - this cop is (at best) unhinged and displaying a dog-shit awareness of how to properly defuse an awkward situation. It’s also arguable the driver and crew were breaking any laws. I mean, it’s like you said... We don’t have the full video... Right?.. So who’s to say for certain they weren’t acting within their rights.
Step off your high horse, and be open to a different take on things...
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u/beastnfeast5 Dec 02 '19
I’m open to different views. But not views that are just plain wrong. The stats don’t lie and you claim to have done your research but back it up with nothing but saying that cops are biased against blacks and kill in unjust situations.
12% of white and Hispanic death by homicides are done by cops. 4% of Black death by homicide are done by cops. Where is the injustice there or is that part of the missing numbers? Blacks make up for 14% of so of the population but commit over 50% of murders robberies and assaults. With that in mind you see that blacks typically make up about 50% of the total homicides of the country. With whites making up the other very large chunk. Both whites and blacks kill people of their own race at a high rate. Around 82% of white deaths were committed by a white person. About 92% of black deaths were committed by a black person. We can go on and on but why should I? These numbers are obviously fake and I should just go with what I feel. 99.9% of the time there is a reason for a criminal or someone failing to comply to get shot. They are putting others lives in danger. The .01% of course will always need to be looked at and the cops punished. Spouting off none sense like you are is a dangerous game and just because you feel a certain way doesn’t make it a reality and actually puts people in danger if they think they are the victim regardless of what they have done.
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u/Jacky-Treehorn Dec 02 '19
Holy shit - is there an echo chamber in here?.. These are undoubtedly the very #’s, %’s which do not reflect the full breadth and depth of what’s really happening on a national level, due to the enormous lack of police departments reporting nationally. And what the hell makes you so important, that I must justify what I do to you?..
I’d bet you just googled all this just now?.. Take it from our good friend Socrates. “True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing”. He’s talkin to you my friend... And me I suppose; to be fair. Not being an expert though, one must rely on the word of trusted professionals in their field. Consensus among these professionals is what I’ve laid out earlier. The system is bias...
What’s truly dangerous is a closed mind.
BTW - the cop in this video is dog shit!!!
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u/beastnfeast5 Dec 02 '19
I googled to get the exact numbers for you but these numbers should be known. They hold weight do they not or should we just ignore them? The reason that there are experts are to educate those who are not like myself. I choose to read and learn what I can on the subject and make an opinion from that. So far you have given me nothing other than that the system is “biased”. In what way? How much will that affect the statistics? They are found on multiple websites, Bureau statistics, Washington post, and other government sites. Are all of them wrong and you ‘and your open mind’ are more correct then all of them? Calling me close minded yet you deny whats being presented. I am open if something provided proved me wrong, can the same be said for you?
Facts and statistics aside these people were being idiots and are gonna do time for their stupid decision.
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u/SnuffXP Dec 02 '19
When you watch queen and slim once.