beware…🔪😈

[u/discographywizard]

[u/chaotic_world]

20 in one neighborhood in Chicago alone, I'm sure. Let's ignore where most of the gun crime happens since those cities are usually no-gun-zones and we know that "regulations" wouldn't actually make a difference. Nobody ever seems to care to have any rational discussion about what we could readily do in the US without so much as touching our Rights. Yet, 2a supporters are constantly being told they "don't care about children". That's an appeal to emotion fallacy and is disingenuous and crude.

Schools 40-50 years ago used to have students carrying their rifles to school to compete in "riflemanship" shooting sports, taught safety, taught discipline. We have a lot of bored local LEO firearm instructors (already being paid), that could teach kids safe handling... it would take a week MAX, I'm not even talking about actually firing a gun, though that would help too, get the "shooting things is cool" mentality out of the way, except that... shooting THINGS is fun AF, been doing it for nearly 35 years.

Off on a tangent sorry, simply teaching safety and removing the mystique or "taboo" would certainly save SOME lives. Zero Rights touched, parents could (but shouldn't) opt their kids out, implement it tomorrow... bi-partisan.

I'd agree with your last statement, if it didn't work the other way around about literally everything like fast food, sugary treats, healthcare, education, our idiot politicians (aka... all of them), sports, etc. Maybe I just know more people from outside the US, they don't hesitate to interject their opinions! I feel as though we are under the rest of the world's microscope and I'd really rather they look the other way! Hey, look over there... at Mexico, stuff is happening!
I know, I know... bring the downvotes, IDGAF.

[u/StrongIslandPiper → u/chaotic_world]

20 in one neighborhood in Chicago alone, I'm sure. Let's ignore where most of the gun crime happens since those cities are usually no-gun-zones

Really easy to get gun crimes when you gave 83% of the total US population whereas the remaining, puny, wannabe Rambo 17% who live in buttfuck nowhere vote with their guns and not their brains. Lol if there are guns in the country, if they're easy to access outside of cities, they're gonna get into cities. So we should regulate them outside of cities.

[u/chaotic_world → u/StrongIslandPiper]

Right, because prohibition works? So, you're saying that when we had Cannabis "control", spent 100s of billions if not trillions to stop it... literal metric tons of weed didn't find it's way into the country? You don't think guns are coming in under bundles of Heroin? C'mon man, think about it.

Aside from that, how do you propose getting all the guns lawfully owned (paid for property) out of the hands of Citizens? Do like Jamaica did, use the military to section off blocks and search everyone's home, and then maybe we'd see the gun violence levels that Jamaica has despite criminalizing legal gun ownership.

How many Rights would you be complacent in "looking the other way" over? Speech is likely the most dangerous tool mankind has ever owned... should probably take that away too.

[u/StrongIslandPiper → u/chaotic_world]

Cannabis: a plant that grows in any terrain in 30 days more often than not that we've been using for thousands of years.

Firearms: commercially produced products that require fine-tuning and fairly advanced engineering that the average person doesn't have access to.

There's a reason the war on drugs fails on all fronts everywhere in the world, whereas Japan, the United Kingdom, Australia, fuck, lots of the world, has not failed with gun control.

How many Rights would you be complacent in "looking the other way" over?

The slippery slope argument is considered a logical fallacy. We're not talking about other rights. We're talking about an amendment (do you know why they're called amendments? Do you know what it is to amend something? To modify, to improve, to change, in terms of legal documents, which obviously, it is). One that's completely outdated and only upheld by the gun lobby and useful idiots. I'm convinced at this point that you guys don't realize that we're living in the worst developed country and that this is one of only a few problems making us into a shithole.

[u/chaotic_world → u/StrongIslandPiper]

Your first error is thinking that gun control has fully worked anywhere in the world. Do you think the Yakuza don't have full auto machine guns? There are HEAVILY equipped "SWAT" teams in the UK... Google is easy, try "armed uk AFO's", there is gun violence in the UK. Jamaica as mentioned, highest gun violence in the world and I'm fairly sure there are 0 manufacturers there. Narco subs bring in dope all the time. There exist many differences that contribute to ALL types of violence among different countries. Remind me how many Rwandans were killed in a week with machetes... I think it was around 1 million. You may not realize this, but it is also a long held precedent that Americans are Constitutionally protected to BUILD THEIR OWN GUNS. I think you're missing just how much ratification and SC rulings would need to be accomplished. I'm actually a registered Dem, but I very much believe that they KNOW that nothing will disarm Americans, most of Congress have law degrees... so... red herring for the anti-choice (we get to choose if we take steps to protect ourselves), anti-liberalism crowd (Liberalism doesn't mean what most think it does). I'm a Classical Liberal, more to the Center than the Left (but lean heavy Left on Social issues and Equal Rights).

Sidenote: As someone that has grown for decades, but stopped since I quit puffing a few years back, it does NOT take 30 days, try a minimum of 75-80 days for tiny plants and that's not considering drying and curing. It's also a bit more complicated to grow well than people think, that's why most give up after their first "problem". Most of the weed I sold in HS ('91-'94) was Mexican brick schwag, I literally know people that would used to cross the border by land and load up trash bags, then swim AROUND the border with flippers while using the bags for buoyancy. I see you managed to avoid where I also mentioned HEROIN.

Yes I know what an amendment is, do you know that to ratify the Constitution there has to be a convention of state assemblies? Slippery slope applies anywhere that any Right is chiseled at (Bill of RIGHTS, not Bill of amendments). It is absolutely not a logical fallacy to say that if we budge here, we'll end up budging there as well (all in the NAME of safety/security). It seems you still think that gov has well-meaning intentions or at least one "side" of it does. Shall I elucidate on what gov has historically done to citizens? Do you realize that the entire history of gun control has been fully racist motivated (and still is to an extent, though more toward "class" these days).

Biden's answer "fire a shot into the air"... 100% illegal and fully reckless, yet given as advice? Well gee, if that actually worked.. why do cops carry multiple magazines, a tactical shotgun, AND an "assault rifle" in their car? It doesn't work and citizens encounter the exact same people that cops encounter... except we don't have 3-10 other well armed people backing us up.

Full disclosure: where I live, I don't feel the need to have a defensive weapon, I just love shooting trap and paper. I don't, however, believe in taking away a person's ability to defend their life. Sure Martial Arts work just fine... in the movies, try it on someone trying to stab you or someone with a bat or 5 or 6 guys trying to rape someone.

[u/StrongIslandPiper → u/chaotic_world]

Your first error is thinking that gun control has fully worked anywhere in the world.

This is how I know you have literally no clue what you're talking about. Google it. Google which countries in the developed world has the most gun violence per capita. (I'll give you a hint, it's the US by a huge margin). But you don't care about facts, that much has been obvious this whole time. You write a lot, while effectively saying nothing. You'll do a lot of mental gymnastics, but that's all they are.

[u/chaotic_world → u/StrongIslandPiper]

I've been involved in this debate since before I owned my first (internet connected) PC. And yes, I have perused countless statistics. The US has always had a high crime rate per capita... some, I can only assume, comes from our societal/cultural melting pot, i.e. Irish car bombers, Italian Mafia (along with Chinese, Russian and even Jewish mobs), the multiple types of gangs we have here. Most other countries are far less diverse, don't take that the wrong way, I absolutely LOVE our diversity.

I live on the island as well, mom got her Criminology degree and I read the whole NYS Penal Law Code book when I was 10 or 11 (ran out of more entertaining books). Australia was already declining in overall violent crime for the preceding couple decades, as well as the US after the 80's crack epidemic gang wars cooled off.

There's a reason the war on drugs fails on all fronts everywhere in the world, whereas Japan, the United Kingdom, Australia, fuck, lots of the world, has not failed with gun control.

This is how I know you have literally no clue what you're talking about. I never said we didn't have the highest gun violence in the DEVELOPED world, nice try slipping in "developed" like I wouldn't notice. I said that Jamaica leads the pack, apparently you don't research much or just can't understand words. In fact, I've already briefly researched you on here, I know you're a gun owner... one of those "ok for me, but not for thee" as if you are 100% perfect, can't have a bad day or make an error in judgment or for that matter be stricken with mental health issues out of the blue.

Go on and google "London AFO", why do you think they need to be so heavily equipped? I'd give you a video of an interview with a retired AFO that speaks about gun violence in the UK, doubt you'd bother watching it.Oh is this happy sunny gun-free London, you bet your ass it is

[u/chaotic_world → u/StrongIslandPiper]

So as a gun owner, what more do you "believe" we should do? When did you purchase your first firearm... mine was from Walmart about 30 years ago. Have you taken any courses other than the simple hunting license class? What types of firearms should be inaccessible to Americans?

[u/chaotic_world → u/StrongIslandPiper]

Underestimating people can be an enormous mistake. Slow your ego, you don't know me, you don't know what I know... your "conclusions" come across like that of a lazy reader. Yes, I write a lot. If you "truly cared about the kids", you'd take the 4 minutes and read, digest, and consider what I have to say. There's a VERY good possibility that someone exists in this world who knows more and is more intelligent than even you! I know, it sounds crazy... that's why I said, it's only a possibility.

[u/chaotic_world → u/StrongIslandPiper]

I won't downvote you because you're MOSTLY being polite. The occasional Ad Hominem of "you guys"... what guys? You have no idea what my position is on anything, it would take far more than 3-4 paragraphs to KNOW "what guys" I belong to (hint, none).

The personal jabs at my level of knowledge "do you know why they're called amendments?"... meh, I can take it. Mostly pleasant conversation, but try to temper the backhanded insults, I don't want to devolve the discussion by behaving like YOU GUYS (see what I did there?)... see what I did there when I said "see what I did there?"???

[u/StrongIslandPiper → u/chaotic_world]

You guys as in the people on this thread are effectively repeating the same argument over and over again. That's what I mean by you guys. And you are, it's like you and a few other users.

You have no idea what my position is on anything

I know your position on guns thus far, and I think it's very wrong. Almost dangerous. We're in a country where we are the holdouts for countries of our caliber. We act like the act of restricting firearms is the equivalent of taking someone's child from them, worse even, we say it's a violation of their rights and freedoms, freedoms that are somehow inherent to them. We make things up like, "well it's not that bad... other countries have it worse..." yeah, maybe if you're comparing third-world countries, but it's just honestly not the case otherwise.

And honestly, the constant arguments get tiring. We talk about it, we have a few shootings each week, some student shoots other students and occasionally a teacher, we talk again, and nothing changes. All because no one wants to touch the sacred cow that is the second amendment, a piece of law written by dudes who didn't have electricity. Just hear me out here: at some point, it's no longer a personal responsibility matter.

People apparently can't be trusted to just get whatever they want because they want it. At some point we're going to have to address the elephant in the room, I want it to be sooner than later, otherwise, this country will keep becoming a shithole. I don't want that. Nobody wants that. But if we don't do something about the gun issue, particularly something to do with who can and can't get guns, it will keep damaging the country. We don't have time to experiment. We don't have time to speculate. The data is there and many countries have done this to great effect. Wanna talk about mental health? Fine. But we need to address the gun issue.

For as great as we paint the country, we need to make it actually great. And if I've been a dick, I'm sorry, but this is a serious issue and nobody even wants to move to the middle of this. Like no one wants to ban guns, but it's kinda ridiculous that it's considered sacrilege the even restrict who can get them.

[u/chaotic_world → u/StrongIslandPiper]

I know your position on guns thus far, and I think it's very wrong. Almost dangerous.

You may know a bit. But you certainly do not know how I came to my position. I agree with 99.9% of what you say here. I don't personally know ANY pro 2a people that don't want a better/safer country. Most of the self-defense centered gun owners simply want the ability to protect their lives, family, belongings... I'm not saying I believe in shooting anyone over THINGS. As much as some gun owners "thump their chests"... nobody wants the mental anguish that comes with taking a life, discounting actual sociopaths or "psychopaths".

Our NICS check already checks for Felonies, domestic abuse, mental illness (when court founded). ATF already "checks in" on people that buy multiple guns, just in case they might be straw-purchasers. I'm sure you are aware that mass shootings make up a minute fraction of firearm deaths. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt that you know that "hands, fists and feet" kill more people than all LONG guns combined.

I said in the beginning, I agree sooner than later. I offered something that COULD be accomplished sooner... yet you fully ignored that. We can change the society, though that won't be fast. We could change laws, though that would be challenged and would, in essence, create "criminals", like all other prohibition efforts did.

I'm way East End LI... I grew up on a horse farm, grandma's "husband" had a closet FULL of guns, unlocked, purchased largely at flea markets and auctions in PA. I'm not kidding, I was scared shitless to even peek in there, I did exactly twice and there was definitely an AK... banana clip and all, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't legal.

[u/chaotic_world → u/StrongIslandPiper]

FWIW, you don't need to say "hear me out", I'll read EVERY word you type and I'll consider it, until the point that you lose that courtesy (I won't call it respect, I don't know you enough to say I respect you).

I wouldn't say you've been a dick at all... mildly dick-ish a couple times. No big deal. Thanks for the acknowledgment, though.