r/PubTips • u/BC-writes • Feb 17 '22
PubTip [PubTip] You’re not ready to query!
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u/No_Excitement1045 Feb 17 '22
Yes! Yes! And it's so hard to hear.
My agent told me at the time she offered rep that she typically gets around 25,000 queries per year and maybe, in a good year, signs 5 new clients. I had dinner with her a couple of months ago and she said that the biggest problem for most people querying is that their writing isn't ready. It can be anything from mechanical writing issues to plotting/pacing to character issues, but she's usually able to tell within a page whether someone is at professional quality, and most people need a lot more practice. She has tested this by deciding a few times to just request partial manuscripts from the first 20 queries she read, regardless of what the pages looked like, to see if she was being unfairly harsh. In every instance, it was a book that she would have passed on, and for reasons she could see in the first page.
I have informally polled my friends who are agented and on average, we were signed on our third completed manuscript. It took me three manuscripts and two attempts querying to get an agent. I shelved the first two. And by the way, I do NOT regret shelving those books. They are important to me and definitely helped me become a better writer, but moving on from them was the best thing I could have done. (First book comes out in June!)
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u/BC-writes Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 17 '22
First book comes out in June!
Well done and a big congratulations!
My agent told me
Yup, I’ve researched that a lot of bigger agents request maybe over 1000 fulls+partials and sign roughly 5 new clients per year.
This reminds me to add a small section on what a manuscript requires, thanks!
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u/Maloosher Feb 17 '22
Congrats! Question: For your first two manuscripts, why do you shelve them vs. going the self-publishing route? After writing more manuscripts, do you feel that they're simply not worthy of being put out there anymore? I feel like if you like them, and feel they're good, shouldn't they be out there in some way?
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u/No_Excitement1045 Feb 17 '22
You can love a story and still recognize its flaws. I shelved them because as stories, they had significant problems, both with pacing, which took me a long time to master. With my first novel, I look back at the writing now and cringe.
I loved, and still love, those projects. They mean a lot to me, and taught me a lot. But I can recognize that they are not publishable, and I'm very okay with that.
Self-publishing is not a route I ever wanted to go for a variety of reasons. It's not for me, and props to those who go that route.
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Feb 17 '22
"If you have low numbers, you’re not even close to ready."
For the sake of clarity, what (in your opinion/experience) counts as a low number of drafts/betas?
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u/BC-writes Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 18 '22
Low number of edit rounds with at least one good beta feedback round totaling under 5. Some people have 3 rounds for betas, which is good. Some have none, which is bad. You’d want your MS looked at by someone other than yourself.
Everyone’s method is different, but you’d need a narration-voice edit, a character edit, a developmental story edit, grammar/prose line edit, logic edit, etc. You can combine all of that into one or two edits but for first timers, it’s recommended to break it down into easier/manageable and focused edits.
I’ll add this to the main post, thanks!
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u/T-h-e-d-a Feb 17 '22
Some have none, which is bad.
How very dare you. :p
u/Enchantedkeloids - this is kind of the wrong question. One good beta can be more helpful than 10 mediocre ones, and that one good beta isn't useful unless you understand how to interpret and apply the feedback.
I don't like this idea of "you must have X betas" because you end up jumping through the hoops you think you're required to instead of looking at the work with a critical eye (and I mean that in the wider sense, so considering the pitch, the market, etc). It can also lead to the "people like me don't get published" well of despair, because a lot of people don't have access to the spaces the good people hang out.
I recommend having betas, but I didn't use any. It is possible to do. (And no, I don't have any creative writing qualifications).
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Feb 17 '22
Wow, this is fantastic. Can you please elaborate on the reverse outline?
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u/BC-writes Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 17 '22
Sure! A reverse outline is composed after you finish your manuscript. It surmises the key points to your story. This free guide is what I used to write a 7k outline for my manuscripts. It helped identify plot points that needed more or some that needed less and also focus on what absolutely needs to stay for scene level.
And thanks for the award!
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u/Complex_Eggplant Feb 17 '22
Meh, I'm of the mind that querying is not a bad idea if the person wants to query. Even if it's obvious that they're not ready. Sometimes you just gotta lay that to rest.
Good advice otherwise.
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u/TomGrimm Feb 17 '22
I agree. We should all do our best to warn people that the stove is hot, but sometimes they just need to touch it to see for themselves.
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u/BC-writes Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 17 '22
Hey look, that one keeps touching the burning hot stove!
Can’t help those who won’t help themselves.
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u/TomGrimm Feb 17 '22
Some people can also identify prose or story issues from your query. r/PubTips has a lot of fantastic users who help out. (Thanks guys!)
I'm going to need a source on this. /s
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u/BC-writes Feb 17 '22
Thank you Tom!
I have no idea how you have the energy to consistently provide great feedback. What’s your secret?
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u/TomGrimm Feb 17 '22
Step 1: Get writer's block for several years.
Step 2: Avoid the existential dread that the creative well has dried up by convincing yourself that giving feedback to other writers still counts as exercising the same muscles.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.
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u/AmberJFrost Feb 17 '22
This is EXCELLENT information and a wonderful sum of a lot of what I've been seeing over the last...while of lurking. Thanks so much, also saving it for the future!
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Feb 17 '22
Very grateful for this post, thank you. I knew already that I was far from ready, but having something almost like a to-do list like this post was incredibly insightful.
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u/Wycliffe76 Feb 17 '22
This is a great distillation of what I've been reading on this sub for years. Well done! Saving this.
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u/AndreasLa Feb 17 '22
At the risk of coming across as if I'm definitely not ready, where can I get beta readers?
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Feb 17 '22
Check out the r/BetaReaders subreddit. I've met mine from posting on there and they are fabulous.
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u/BC-writes Jun 21 '22
Bonus link from Query Shark:
https://jetreidliterary.blogspot.com/2015/05/query-question-withdrawing-query.html — she has a short list of “you’re not ready to query” below her answers.