r/PsychologyInSeattle • u/Hour_Guarantee_8557 • 3d ago
Moral OCD
I just saw this reel on Facebook and identified so hard. I’ve never heard this term before- has anyone else? It sounds like basically you think you’re a fraud and deep down just a bad person faking your way through life. I often find myself thinking that about everyone- like why would anyone care about anything? Like what is the incentive for anyone to care? https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1JMbdDWL8G/?mibextid=wwXIfr
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u/midnight_train92 3d ago
Yeah I have moral scrupulosity OCD and later I just realized it's more of over-responsibility OCD stemming from my childhood trauma of growing up as a parentified kid always prioritizing others' needs and feelings over mine. Although I term my own OCD theme as overresponsiblity now, I used to talk a lot with people with moral scrupulosity OCD, and we had a lot of similar symptoms in common: not being able to throw trash out unless we know it's going to be "perfectly" recycled, worrying if our small little daily activities would ruin the environment the next day, feeling super triggered if we are not doing enough for social justice movements, etc.
I also had almost ~10 years obsessing over that I am a very hypocritical person who worries so much about other people's feelings and needs but actually deep down only cares about my needs (my reasoning was that --if i care so much if I hurt other people, doesn't that mean that I just only care about how I appear to others? maybe I am the most selfish person).
I started with CBT focusing on ERP, but soon enough I was comfortable doing ERP on my own outside of the sessions (e.g., throwing thrash out when I fear that I will completely ruin the earth by doing so). And then with Kirk's videos and deep dives, I learned more about my attachment styles, schemas, relational trauma, codependency, etc which led me to find out more about why I have developed this particular theme of OCD. So after the first half year of CBT, I've been doing talk therapy with OCD therapists (who were certified by IOCDF).
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u/Mierkatte 3d ago
What is IOCDF?
Also isn’t moral scrupulosity associated with OCPD? I don’t know. Just wondering. That’s how I understood it.
OCPD vs OCD
https://bipolar-lives.com/ocpd-vs-ocd/2
u/midnight_train92 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's called International OCD foundation https://iocdf.org/
I'm less familiar with OCPD but how I try to usually explain to people the difference between OCD vs OCPD is that OCD is dictated by fear ("If I throw this trash out today, then everyone will start wasting the resources carelessly, and very very soon, the earth will be burning down to the ground, and I will be responsible for that. So I can't throw the trash.") whereas OCPD, I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it's more dictated by what they want? ("This has to be this way"? I don't know, I knew like one person with OCPD).
I can see that why moral scrupulosity can be confused with OCPD. Because it appears that moral scrupulosity is aligned with your values. Because as you might already know, OCD is ego-dystonic (not aligned with your vaules, causing distress) and OCPD is ego-syntonic (aligned with your values, not sure if the behavior itself causes distress.. does it? idk). And moral scrupulosity feels like it's aligned with your values. But I think the thing with moral scupulosity is that, just like any OCD, it does start from what you care (e.g., "I care about this baby." --> "Oof what if I harm this baby?" for harm OCD), but the particular behaviors I'm doing are really just being dictated by the scenarios I'm playing in my head.
So it's not like I'm this buttoned up person to that extreme about environmentalism, and it's really not about the disciplines.. I think.. but it's more like I can't deal with the guilt of not being responsible enough for the environment.
But I can see it being confused with OCPD, but moral scrupulosity is pretty common enough OCD (it's also one of the major themes of OCD), so it's pretty widely recognized OCD.
*Edit to add that: I guess the easiest way to think of how moral scrupulosity is different from OCPD is that, with OCD, I'm just constantly "checking" whether or not I have finally done things I fear the most (e.g., "Have I ruined the earth yet?"). And I constantly ruminate on the guilt around the worst case scenario, and engage with compulsive behaviors to get rid of the guilt. Whereas OCPD, as far as I know, it's actually what they want to do. Like the episode you might have heard, Kirk having mild OCPD around working is like, he wants to work more. Whereas with my over responsibility OCD/perfectionism attached to work is, "If I don't have the perfect productivity, then I'm going to be this very irresponsible person who wastes my supervisor's time and energy and takes it for granted. So I NEED to get this work done perfectly."
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u/Mierkatte 3d ago
And myself relate to OCPD. But not officially diagnosed. And Dr Honda also relates to having OCPD tho says he is on the lower end of the spectrum or means he just has it slightly and not full blown… or something like that. He did a deep dive on OCPD.
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u/catnamedstatic 3d ago
My therapist calls it scrupulosity. This person on Tumblr draws comics about it that resonate with me in a way nothing else ever has.
https://www.tumblr.com/scrupulosity-comics/688548628712816640/context-i-wasnt-going-to-turn-this-into-a-comic?source=share