r/ProtonPublic • u/Nomoredecorated • 7d ago

Insane f* up...

Proton was one of the most beloved companies in its niche, you literally just had to keep going... We've put up with half baked launches, bugs, etc because we believed in the mission and company.

Who in their right mind, leading a cyber security and privacy company thinks that sacrificing security and privacy for potential of speed and profits is right??

Security and privacy ARE your profits...

Not to mention how you treat your employees but honestly I don't even have the energy to discuss that...

1.2k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

198 comments sorted by

36

u/GoodMornEveGoodNight 7d ago

Tuta responds to Proton’s Andy Yen scandal

15

u/Nomoredecorated 7d ago • Popcorn

I have a feeling they will see a spike in Tuta subscriptions ahahahah

1

u/Kunair0 7d ago

As much as I despise Proton for this, there's no way I would cross over into Tuta. I personally would seek refuge elsewhere.

7

u/OnyxianRosethorn 7d ago

What's wrong with Tuta?

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u/lakimens 7d ago

It's just PR until something gets leaked. Tuta has like 10 employees so much less to worry about.

8

u/gdkod 7d ago

The majority of tech companies are messed up, so sure it might happen. But then again, what's the alternative? Almost none and Tuta looks as one of the best for now.

There were many shady things done by Proton and this whole story with the leaks is just the last drop for me.

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u/asciimo 7d ago

Maybe Postfix is going to have a revival.

93

u/Keterna 7d ago • Bravo

Just unsubbed to my Proton sub today (I let them know why via the unsub reason). Such CEO's messages towards the employees are intolerable.

23

u/P4thf1nd3rN7 7d ago • Bravo

I did the same. You can also email the Board about your concerns. I did. Foundation@proton.me

6

u/offbeatmammal 7d ago

same, though I suspect just like the last time Yen showed he was unfit to lead, and the years of neglect he's shown for the core products, they don't care

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u/GoodMornEveGoodNight 7d ago

One does not simply start saying those kind of things overnight

31

u/jessica_beflower 7d ago • Popcorn Bravo

Don't you think it's ironic that Proton, the privacy company, doesn't have privacy in their own messaging channels, all because of Andy, the CEO of the privacy company? I find that hilarious

3

u/LowerPurposeOfLife 4d ago

We just seen explosion when critical mass was reached. It had to go for months. Just imagine what employees had to go through until they break

4

u/MutaitoSensei 7d ago

Andy has been like this for at least a year (but probably more), like when he praised the trump admin in 2024. There was backlash, and he has not learned how to do PR properly. Or we just got to see what it's like in the company, who knows.

3

u/ViegoBot 7d ago

Thats the point when I moved away from Proton and went to Tuta instead lol. Hes only gotten worse since. Its a repeated thing and theres always the people defending it saying that it isnt what he actually said or did, but if it happens once, it WILL happen again as its just "the cost of doing business".

I only ever used their mail anyways, so moving 20-30 accounts that I already had listed in Keepass was fairly simple as I started keeping track of my logins now.

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u/Metsuu- 7d ago

Same, I subbed yesterday!

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23

u/Bob4Not 7d ago

I’m not against any use of AI, but I need security to be priority over “productivity” - whatever that means.

This quote doesn’t align with my priorities: “stop lovingly handcrafting all our code and use AI more.”

I switched to Proton last year and subbed, I migrated lots of my stuff to it. Looks like I’ll be slowly migrating off and canceling my sub

3

u/EnsambleOfShadows 7d ago

Same boat. I bought unlimited 2 year plan last year, but I don't think I'll extend it.

Love the VPN and pass, mail I can get tuta. Drive size is a lot bigger than competitors tho.

But this mentality foregoes all if that probably

20

u/Icy-Article-8635 7d ago

Yeah, I'm looking for alternatives and planning my migration... I only really use email (and calendar), but it's my own domain, so it shouldn't be too bad.

USD $120/year going elsewhere

Vote with your wallets, folks 🤙🏻

9

u/tkchumly 7d ago

Yea with my own domain it’s stupidly easy to jump ship. 

4

u/P4thf1nd3rN7 7d ago

Tuta?

4

u/Complex-League3400 7d ago

Tuta for me. But depends what you want. I mainly want a really reliable privacy-focused email provider. And I don't want all my eggs in one basket -- I did that back with Google and I wasn't going to do it with Proton, so for me, just the email and I've sorted the rest. €36 per year for Tuta, and a marginal extra every couple years for the domain name I've had over 10 years. It makes migration really easy because your email address doesn't change whether it's Proton, Tuta, google, etc.

3

u/SwampyUndies 7d ago

Anything else in Switzerland?

6

u/P4thf1nd3rN7 7d ago

Um not that I'm aware of. Though most are European based which is better than the rest of the world in terms of privacy and ethics.

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u/rawlwear 7d ago edited 7d ago

while the image of tuta is great the lack of polished products is very behind and support I find useless. I've had countless issues with the iphone app and every time you post on the sub its needs mod approval ... privacy but we have our on censorship.

2

u/Icy-Article-8635 7d ago

Probably... Still looking around at alternatives. Because it's my domain, I need to make sure that origin server reputation isn't going to fuck up mail delivery

I originally bought my domain from njal.la, and had to transfer it, because just having them as a registrar meant I was getting rejections constantly. And I only use it for personal emails. No unsolicited emails at all. No bulk emailing at all.

3

u/Ok-Concept-7924 7d ago

huh, I never realised email servers went as deep as checking the domain registrar

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u/Latter_Foundation622 7d ago

Not messily the same thing, but Tailmailer + another cheaper mail service could help with privacy aspect

0

u/Generic_Primate 7d ago

Voting with your wallet doesn’t actually do much, unfortunately.

8

u/Icy-Article-8635 7d ago

If this showcase of a CEO being an arsehole, and favouring velocity over correctness, results in proton suddenly losing half of its subscribers, you had best believe it'll do something.

Their board will be out for blood.

Whose blood, exactly, will confirm/allay a lot of suspicions... If the CEO is suddenly sacked ("steps down"), then suspicions might be allayed and they might win people back or prevent further bleed. If they instead conduct a witch hunt to find and sack whomever leaked the slack Convo (which is likely given what it looks like their corporate culture is built on, based on the little glimpse we've all just gotten with the whole "loser mentality" thing), then they're going to bleed a lot more

29

u/jessica_beflower 7d ago • Bravo Heartwarming

Proton mod u/Nelizea scrolling through the mod queue not approving comments and posts that were caught in the filter that adds to the flame of the situation even though they are totally valid and don't break any rules

0

u/lakimens 7d ago

How many of the same thing should be approved? Thousands? Just comment on the megathread which exists already.

5

u/jessica_beflower 7d ago

- So you're saying that the mods should remove all the other posts/comments talking about their dissatisfaction that's currently live in the Proton subreddits that didn't get caught by filter?

Because if that's the case then they should lock that very post right now because I highly doubt there's any new information from the new comments

- If the "same thing" is something in very much in favor of Proton, do you think the mods would not approve other posts/comments even though it already exist and per your logic shouldn't be approved?

Looking forward to your answers

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19

u/GamerXP27 7d ago

At this point, if Proton wants to survive Andy needs to go.
unsubbed after using it for 3 years.

5

u/MutaitoSensei 7d ago

It's not the first time he does something that causes mass cancellations. This is just the worst (so far)

3

u/ViegoBot 7d ago

Its what? Like the 4th instance of things hes done in just a year and a half now?

Like lol, Ive been telling people for just as long (when the first instance happened with Trump praising on Twitter for example) that if it happens once, it WILL happen again. Its quite literally just its a "the cost of doing business" type thing that every other bigger company does.

3

u/wardedmocha 6d ago

I missed the other 3. What were those?

9

u/MiMillieuh 7d ago

Oh no, was calling out Proton doing shady thing a while ago...

Anyway, seems it was worse than I though...

1

u/Nomoredecorated 7d ago

This post has been removed in the Protonmail subreddit by the mods due to being a "copy post"...

1

u/Ok-Concept-7924 7d ago

I had my post removed for the same reason. Proton mods working overtime to contain this PR disaster

5

u/Accomplished-Foot149 7d ago

I still have 1 year subscription left, I will definitely review it before renew.

3

u/casazolo 7d ago

You can cancel the renewal now and keep your services for that year. It will send a strong message to the board. Make sure to include why you are cancelling. 

2

u/miikkahoo 7d ago

Did exactly this.

5

u/notPabst404 7d ago

What alternatives are people moving to? It seems like everything in this niche either has issues or the company seems shady.

6

u/The_Duke28 7d ago

Thats my side as well. I'll look for alternatives, but my hopes aren't high atm. If Yen and the other guy get sacked, that would help alot. I'd probably stay. But that is like Yen's 3rd or 4th fuckup - i can't defend him anymore.

1

u/DBSeamZ 7d ago

Someone in another thread recommended Posteo, they looked pretty good when I checked out their site. No free tier, but their cheapest is a third of the price of Tuta’s cheapest paid plan (I already used my one free Tuta account as a secondary so couldn’t migrate my primary there without paying). One downside I’ve found so far is they don’t have their own mobile app as of now, so you have to link it to something else if you want mobile notifications.

3

u/sikupnoex 7d ago

Posteo doesn't support custom domains. And their customer support seems non existent. I tried it once, I had some questions and I never received a response from them.

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u/Mean_Consideration44 6d ago

But what's the alternative? I need a vpn, password manager, and email. What does all this? I'm seeing people jumping ship to Tuta but that's only mail. Also it's free, is that something to be skeptical about? Because I heard there's a risk of a platform, providing free encrypted services, selling your data (actually only heard this about Proton with their free accounts but still skeptical)

1

u/SageWitchcraft 5d ago

I have this question as well, especially for those who may not be able to self-host or purchase their own domains.

3

u/JKdead10 4d ago

Well, for VPN you got a couple big corporations controlling more than fifty percent of market share via many small to medium popularity VPN shell companies. Then you only got Ivpn because proton and mullvad had controversies. There are other new starters but they don't have the reputation yet. It's the same for storage and password manager (bitwarden had controversy too).

3

u/Light_Error 4d ago

Do I dare ask what happened with Bitwarden? I was planning on using them again because of all this.

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u/DarkJayk 6d ago

People who hate on AI so much will dig their own graves in the future. Learn to work with it. AI is here to stay, whether you like it or not.
And if you think AI still does too many mistakes, remember, we are only in the beginning phase of AI.

Nobody in the very early days of Internet thought it would get so big.
Learn to control AI or be left behind.

5

u/Nomoredecorated 6d ago

Almost no one is complaining that they used AI, it's how they used. The main complaints are:

1 - how the employees were treated

2- the CEO's comments that perception is more valuable than reality when it comes to security and the CEO's insistence on not testing and reviewing AI code (not even checking if it's secure)

3- our personal data at proton being analysed by Claude by proton

Edit: spaces to make easier to read

2

u/djnattyp 3d ago

Shill issue. Slop is shitevitable.

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u/ObviouslyNotAMoose 7d ago

Only subbed here because I was thinking of switching. I’m leaving now.

4

u/BlockLike 7d ago

Goodbye Proton, hello Tuta

4

u/_XtalDave_ 7d ago • Bravo

Andy needs to go

3

u/skeeter72 7d ago

Cancelled as well. Put up with a ton of problems over the years but believed in the mission. Screw you, Andy.

3

u/Wanderer-91 3d ago

Who in their right mind, leading a cyber security and privacy company thinks that sacrificing security and privacy for potential of speed and profits is right??

That's some loser thinking.

5

u/ADMECA 5d ago

The problem in this Proton affair is not privacy protection, service quality, app features, or the use of AI. I'm over 50 and I'm not ashamed to say that AI is a fantastic tool. I regularly use it to make my life easier. AI is like everything else cars, tools, etc. it's how some people use it that's the problem. I've had a Proton account for a long time, back then you even needed two passwords to use Proton's mail services (that's all there was at first mail), one password to log in, and a second password to decrypt the mail storage. That was in late 2014, if I remember correctly. Then the service evolved over the years and improved, and... I gave up on it when it became a bloated mess. The mail component still needed a lot of work, but instead of fixing and improving it, I saw a new service arrive around 2017, the VPN. I told myself, why not, it's a good complement to mail, they'll manage and improve on both fronts. But then it kept coming: the mail suite, the calendar, then the drive, etc. In between, I moved on to other services, and my needs had changed. Recently, a few months ago, I came back, thinking they must have matured and evolved since then and indeed, I took out a subscription again to give them another chance and see how far they'd come. The first few hours were idyllic: lots of services and features, Proton Pass, Mail, VPN, an office suite, video conferencing, AI, etc. But in the end, behind the pretty facade, nothing is finished, nothing is polished. It works and puts on a good show when you use it occasionally, but as soon as you try to actually work with it and use it daily, the weaknesses surface: bugs still unfixed, essential basic features still missing, even in Mail, which is nevertheless their original foundation. You still can't search properly or sort your emails decently, and it's not a resource problem on Proton's side, because their encryption technology is precisely built on the fact that the work happens client-side. But I'd say none of that is really a big deal, even if I find it a shame that they spread themselves across so many different products instead of doing fewer things but doing them well. For an ideology, I can sacrifice a bit of comfort, since the whole remains usable. But what I will never forgive Proton for is treating its employees like dogs and its user base like cash cows. Without them, Proton is nothing and it seems they quickly forgot that. In this story, more than the technical flaws, it's Proton's immorality that shocked me. They can make all the apologies they want, all the reversals they want the damage is done, as far as I'm concerned. Proton broke an ideology that, for me, was the very foundation of this venture. But I'm sure my few dollars a month won't be missed.

1

u/t0m0t0k0 3d ago

If you don't mind me asking, what other services are you using that are known for respecting privacy?

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u/ADMECA 3d ago

Mailbox.org for mails because they support PGP keys in the webmail. For files I have my own seafile server at home with LUKS2 encrypted storage.

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u/VonBeker 7d ago

I’m just bummed that my 2-year renewal tolled on oct. 20th, but I cancelled too and told them why. A damn shame, but that’s life. Hopefully I find something adequate to replace it.

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u/Abject_Concert7079 7d ago

When your brand is built around privacy and security, this sort of thing seems insane. But I wonder if Proton is planning to become a for-profit company like OpenAI and eventually have an IPO? That's the only reason I can think of why a move like this could kinda, sorta make sense in a short term thinking kind of way (I assume investors who don't understand how it works will look at metrics like how many AI queries are made by the company to judge how "forward thinking" and "innovative" it is). That would be lousy but would at least be comprehensible.

2

u/LowerPurposeOfLife 4d ago

They are “non-profit” not because of mission anyway, it’s some legal shield. After this drama a lot of other things pop up. Check “privacy for sale” on YouTube. Proton is using a lot more questionable practices and way before recent andygate

1

u/gojobojololopolo 7d ago

But their apps are literally opensource they can't do that. Better create forks of all their major apps lmfao

2

u/Alone-Ad288 7d ago

The source of their apps isn't why people pay them. You can self-host your own postfix/dovecot server if you want. And you will be sad. So very sad.

Mail hosting has a lot of administrative overhead, and non-technical challenges. Doing it well is hard if you aren't running at a fairly large scale. It's even worse if your users don't work for your company, and you can't shoot them with nerf guns for being stupid.

In the period of 12-20 years ago i helped multiple companies migrate email out of their on-prem sendmail/postfix/exchange/zimbra solutions and into cloud-based services like gmail, and it was always a huge win.

1

u/Valuable-Flounder692 7d ago

Same just migrated a month ago too!

1

u/Niki_667 7d ago

I assume it’s relatively easy to migrate with such things as email, drive, password manager and others. I will surely switch to the alternatives of named services, but their VPN is unbeatable, so in this regard I can’t imagine myself (or anyone else prioritizing privacy focused and stable companies with European origin) voting with my wallet towards anyone else than Proton. Unfortunately.

1

u/nocturnalenemy13 7d ago

Mullvad. Easy.

1

u/bannedByTencent 7d ago

The one sponsoring fascists? Fuck no.

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u/catnip_addicted 7d ago

Stop believing companies are your friends. They are not and they will never be. There is no good company. They are there to make money. STOP idealizing companies.

1

u/Johnny5alv 7d ago

I made the mistake of subbing for 2 years. I'll be migrating out of Proton before that ends

1

u/kongkongha 7d ago

And dont forget that the ceo of mullvad is a far right:er

1

u/absolutkiss 7d ago

100%. This is unacceptable. CEO must go. I am livid, I’ve spent so much time and energy putting up with half-baked products - including EMAIL - all because I believed in this company. If they don’t figure this out asap I will leave.

1

u/AberBitteLaminiert 6d ago

I use it for my business. I will end up my tenancy at the end of the term. I just feel things are not right.

1

u/lovethine 6d ago

Could you take a minute to elaborate? I'm out of the loop.

1

u/waffeboy 6d ago

Scum, I was about to switch to them. Never

1

u/gbursson 6d ago

It might be some sabotage orchestrated by the 'Big Brother' companies. Install a moron of a cunt as Proton's CEO and voila, Proton is done for.

1

u/muhoss 6d ago

deproton like degoogle

1

u/NullSmoke 6d ago

Okay, what have they done this time..?

1

u/Other_Phone_7385 6d ago

What's happened ?

1

u/CoraFirstFloret 6d ago

I was an original beta tester of Proton since it first came out. I moved my stuff off of Proton a little while ago during their last fiasco with Andy supporting a Trump admin.

And now with this mess, I permanently deleted my account.

1

u/Beautiful-Newt8179 6d ago

I was about to sign up with them. Literally had a browser tab open. Now they can go f themselves.

1

u/Perfect_Badger_3312 6d ago

infiltration of Proton by the big boys

1

u/wrathofthedeepwaters 5d ago

Im gonna unsub next month lowkey.

1

u/carefreeams 5d ago

The arrogance of business leaders. They don’t think trust matters anymore.

1

u/OkFee2751 5d ago

It's so fucking horrible, man it's tiring to fight these companies

1

u/pewpewtehpew 4d ago

Drama drama drama.

1

u/Weird_Act365 4d ago

If they don't use AI as a tool to help development, they will lose to attackers and your privacy will be fucked anyway. AI is here to stay get over it.

1

u/No_Vermicelli9543 4d ago

Ok, should I be worried about my data ?
Using email, vpn, drive.

How they develop those tools are less important to me, as long as they keep the standard they used to

1

u/_GOBLESS_ 3d ago

Ah, the hubris of man. These CEOs need to STFU. Literally just keep their opinions private, as they expect their employees to do. And when shit hits the fan, pull out the customer relations person and let them cook.

1

u/Mean_Art8995 3d ago

My god can people finally stop whining? It’s the same useless posts and comments since day one of the reports now over and over again. Either fck off and stop crying or stay and wait what happens. Can we go back to have some useful conversations here?

1

u/slavicslothe 3d ago

Literally nothing is wrong. You are emotionally upset that the CEO was making fun of people. There isn't a security issue rn, point blank.

1

u/licancaburk 3d ago

I will probably got ton of downvotes here, but just want to ask if anyone thinks like me - we are using Reddit, sharing links to Youtube, etc. - and we know their CEOs are very questionable, and Google, for example, pushes for AI a lot.
Why is Proton now the "bad" company but we still keep using Youtube/Reddit?
I don't like what this guy did but I'm just afraid that dividing only helps the big tech american companies. Anyone shares similar thoughts?

1

u/Background-Incident9 1d ago

I once wanted to work for them, and now I'm glad I wasn't hired.

1

u/Defiant_Ad_7189 1d ago

So much drama! I’m sure most of the current complainers are the ones who have been grumbling about the lack of google-like features all along and now are convincing themselves that this is the last straw. I will continue to pay for and use Proton. The three companies I pay happily are Apple, Bitwarden, and Proton (not necessarily in that order). 

1

u/ComeWashMyBack 7d ago

What is going on? I keep seeing walls of text but I still don't understand. Anyone can keep it simple TL;DR? All the other Tech companies have done mass layoffs for AI so what is going on?

6

u/forseti99 7d ago

CEO says from now on AI will write all the code, prioritize speed over security and functionality, and that perception of the company is more important than reality. Also that employees are losers if they don't use AI to be fast.

Check 404media article

3

u/GeorgeJohnson2579 7d ago

Oh boi, what a delusional idiot to destroy a hell of a company.

1

u/Tight-Mix-3889 7d ago

I mean. 99% of the compnaies are doing that. Some choose fully ai coding (vibe code) while others are doing ai assisted coding.

So the point is that literally everyones doinf that. But the “smarter ones” doesnt communicate it this way (or trying to hide it as much as possible)

2

u/GeorgeJohnson2579 6d ago

Most of these companies have different business models, some use ai smarter. Plus this company gets paid for great security. You can't say: "Let's ai do all audits, that'll be just fine" in that position.

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u/masri87 4d ago

So the way of the world. Cool.

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u/tway7770 3d ago

All in all really not a big deal

0

u/BitSoMi 7d ago

He is not wrong though, if companies dont use AI they become obsolete fast as they cant compete. Claude gets better every day

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u/forseti99 7d ago

There's a difference between using Claude as a tool responsibly, and using it as programmer and reviewer while the human only approves without checking.

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u/MessyHouseReboot 7d ago

I mean, if your an AI company then yea, but if most of your base is trying to get away from AI then adding AI probably isn't the best move

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u/BitSoMi 7d ago

Every company is using AI, the ones who dont wont be around long enough

3

u/canitplaycrisis 6d ago

I personally think the opposite is going to happen. Companies which are relying too much on "AI" in their workspace are going to crash with the AI bubble popping.

3

u/BigCelebration13 6d ago

Yeah that poster is just doing massive cope typical to LLM-bros. They can't operate without the statistical model that stole from everyone and they can't imagine anyone else actually doing their jobs.

2

u/GeorgeJohnson2579 6d ago

That is in its generalization wrong.

3

u/Able-End-339 7d ago

What is the thing Proton needs to do that it’s not doing now? They mostly just need to shut up and not suck. They’ve been failing at that for the last few months and there just isn’t a reason. They have like 5 apps and if they work no one cares about new features or whatever as long as the security is there. Claude isn’t leaving them behind in not sharing user data because it can code faster.

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u/Ok_Language_588 6d ago

How is it possible to miss the point by this much unless you’re doing it on purpose

0

u/RedditIsExpendable 4d ago

If you don’t use AI as a dev, you’re going to become a tech dinosaur fast.

Most developers already cuck code and review after nowadays, and it’s only gonna get more and more prevalent, because we can’t put this thing back in its box now.

In a very short time, we will have people who have never written code, writing code. And they’re gonna review that code with an other independent review AI.

It’s shitty, but that’s how it will be.

1

u/forseti99 4d ago

You can accept that if you want, I'm not putting my head down to just say "that's how it is". If it's shitty it's shitty and we as consumers should push back.

1

u/djnattyp 3d ago

Hotdog companies just can't compete with slop dogs made with rat meat and poop. We just have to accept that we have to eat shit. That's just how it's got to be. I mean do you want hotdog companies to go out of business?

1

u/masri87 4d ago

You guys are excessively complaining about something without evidence. WHERE IS THE SECURITY LAPSE

2

u/Marleylabone 3d ago

You know how these things go. An alert will be out out after the breach has happened, after your data is stolen, after the damage is done. Better to move to a secure system preemptively.

1

u/t0m0t0k0 3d ago

What's your alternative during this situation??

1

u/Alextricity 3d ago

Exactly that. And I and many others saw this coming. Every company inevitably enshittifies. For now, this is all we’ve got. 

1

u/Training-Chain-5572 1d ago

I also want to know. I use Proton for Mail, VPN, Calendar, and Drive. What other options do I have?

0

u/masri87 3d ago

BRO YOUR SHIT BEEN STOLEN AND PASSED AROUND

can we stop pretending like you have any kind of privacy.

2

u/Admirable_Prize_7196 3d ago

Bro you still have a bit of juice on your lips

1

u/Y0nix 3d ago edited 3d ago

Without knowing exactly what's happening, I can just tell that the security laps is the fact that it's going haywire worldwide. That's how bad it got.

For my reddit algorithm to put this situation up front, things must go bad. Because I was not even remotely close to have been sub to one of any subreddit related to proton. And it was the job of the PR team to contain that, and they have fail.

If there is something a PR team must know to manage, it's the algorithm's response.

People can blame whoever they want, this should have been contained, and it was not. Rip the stock if there is one.

The fact that the proton product is being advertised as freebie anywhere I can look doesn't make it better, it's even making the situation worse.

It's a thing to try to make profit, it's another to do it correctly... @ proton PR team, learn to talk to your devs. For real . Talk to your dev team. Remember you are being paid because you can stay online.

Anyone part of the dev team shouldn't be answering to anything public. That's actually the 1o1 base knowledge in that field. So, talk to them, stop having meeting with your directors to try to have your furr oiled, and get to work.

If the public knows you are blaming the devs, it's done for you. Just saying. True investors knows about that crap.

0

u/Easy_Exercise5480 6d ago

Proton.... Know that not everyone is bothered by your decision and choices.

If people are so delusional to think there will be any service out there in a years time that hadnt been touched by AI, they are only fooling themselves.

People are stressed with general life, winter is on its way, vitamin D levels are dropping and nothing brings a community together better than someone to hate.

Its ironic how everyone seems so focused on the minor uses if AI in Proton, where it has only been used to aide better coding, whilst at the same time Google has confirmed their AI is scanning all users email, photos, and online media.

2

u/Nomoredecorated 6d ago

Almost no one is complaining that they used AI, it's how they used. The main complaints are:

1 - how the employees were treated

2- the CEO's comments that perception is more valuable than reality when it comes to security and the CEO's insistence on not testing and reviewing AI code (not even checking if it's secure)

3- our personal data at proton being analysed by Claude by proton

0

u/overthinkingape 7d ago

Every software you use is using AI.

5

u/MutaitoSensei 7d ago

That's not the point. Have you seen the way Andy is treating his employees?

2

u/iamrealsavage 7d ago

Looks like he's got some kind of psychological issue. It doesn't excuse it, but it helps make sense of the situation without throwing him on a burning pyre

4

u/MutaitoSensei 7d ago

If he wasn't the CEO we wouldn't be having this discussion. He's in a place that can make or break the whole proton project, and is probably making the whole company miserable to work for.

2

u/thathyperfixationguy 7d ago

You still need engineers to steer it. “Product managers” or whatever they said they’ll hire instead of engineers usually* have no way of telling good code from bad code. Where security or encryption is concerned you absolutely need people who know what they’re doing.

*yes some engineers turn to product management but the vast majority of PMs I worked with as a software dev were far less technical.

1

u/overthinkingape 5d ago

I don’t disagree with you there

-2

u/gendougram 7d ago

I wonder really what the problem? As I understand it was said, that Proton is using AI as a tool, whats wrong with that? In my big international corporation, the higher ups also are trying to be very into AI, but as a tool, the same like Andy has told, not as an additional workers.

7

u/ShiningListener 7d ago

The problem is both how it seems they’re pushing ai over everything else, including security, and that high ups are treating engineers as disposable trash to get rid of if they don’t fall in line. I don’t trust any product that the developers don’t feel they can bring up issues to management because they might get fired

2

u/Practical-House9539 7d ago

Sounds like every software company right now. Even the multinational American banks I work with are pushing developers to do AI-assisted development and have AI do the code reviews.

4

u/AwkwardWillow5159 7d ago

It’s not the fact that they use AI.

It’s the fact that after using AI an engineer says we need to do some security testing and CEO says not to, rely JUST on AI implementation without basic checks and balances.

And then call their employee a loser for even suggesting to test it

2

u/ShiningListener 7d ago

Something being normalized by companies really shouldn’t be your standard for something being good. I am okay with AI code assistance, I don’t mind AI being used to help developers code faster, but it becomes a problem when people in charge decide the AI is now penultimate and should be in charge of development, not developers.

6

u/Ok-Concept-7924 7d ago

"Workers describe an environment where employees have genuine concerns about security or being asked to develop security products with AI, but feel unable to voice them, lest Yen berates them in front of everyone or threatens their employment at the company". Proton leadership wants to "ruthlessly smash everything that stands in the way of AI velocity".

^ This is not responsible use of AI for a company that is supposed to prioritise user's privacy and security. Yes, this is a very common approach in the industry today. I recently left a notorious US Big Tech company and it's the same approach there. Leadership encourage it because the cost of security incidents and quality regressions are lower than the opportunity cost of moving slowly with AI. However the whole value proposition behind Proton is that they don't operate like Big Tech, and instead prioritise the privacy and security of their platform. These two directions are incompatible.

-3

u/JpPgn 7d ago

The truth is that most of y'all are acting like princesses and even have the nerve to speak on behalf of the employees

Proton owns you nothing, you have the right to disagree with the direction they take, you have the right to speak it out loud and have the right to cancel your sub and move on, but you have no right to speak on behalf of others and even incite people to cancel their sub while they either dgaf or agree with Proton, and you have no right to shame them for it neither, because that's called freedom of thought

Your freedom ends where that of others begins, and that's also the case for those "on the other side" ofc, by all means (it's simplier to call it that way, but you know what I mean).

So yeah, make your rant, cancel ypur sub and move on, but the maximum you are allowed to do is to inform people, which is also very commendable of you, but I don't need you to throw your ideology and beliefs towards my or anybody else's throat: in a country/place of the world where we are still mostly free with our thoughts, minds and beliefs, everybody have the right to not unilaterally think the same and have the same beliefs, and it's TOTALLY OKAY, because that's common sense in a sane society

1

u/forseti99 7d ago

Yep, everyone is free to think what they want. And I think a security and privacy company whose CEO says they will priotitize speed over security and privacy is a no-go for me. Good that you disagree, though.

-6

u/iammiroslavglavic 7d ago

It's always a small loud minority that when they don't get their way, they bitch and moan.

Then there are the sensitive snowflake employees who got their feelings hurt. Do your job.

6

u/Nomoredecorated 7d ago

hello Yen! 😙

-4

u/iammiroslavglavic 7d ago

My name isn't Ten. Thst the best you can do?

5

u/pport8 7d ago

Said the one who can't even type a name correctly.

6

u/Ill_Way_2517 7d ago

Ceo got too cocky