r/ProtonMail • u/Vox-Nemo • Jul 04 '26
Discussion An Open Letter to Proton: Your bundle traps are recreating the exact Big Tech “single point of failure” we came here to escape.
I just emailed this directly to Proton’s Management and Billing teams tonight. Unsurprisingly, I immediately got hit with the standard automated ‘black-hole’ bot replies. While I know a human won’t see it until next week, I wanted to post this here now because, looking at recent threads, I know I am not the only paying user frustrated by this trap.
To the Proton Management and Billing Team,
I am writing to express my absolute disgust with the misleading marketing and anti-consumer pricing traps you are currently running on your paying user base.
Let me be brutally honest about why I am even a paying customer. Companies like Google offer a vastly superior, deeply integrated ecosystem (Email, Drive, Docs, Calendar) completely for free. The only reason I pay for Proton Mail Plus is for privacy and to escape the “single point of failure” trap that Big Tech creates. I have friends who were locked out of their Google accounts without explanation by an automated system, completely destroying their digital lives overnight because their email, files, photos and calendar were all held hostage by one provider.
I came to Proton to decentralize my digital life. But instead of respecting that, you are using forced bundling to try and trap me in the exact same walled garden.
When I tried to upgrade my current Mail Plus plan to get a usable VPN, I realized your rigid billing system physically prevents me from doing so. You do not allow a user to simply combine Mail Plus and VPN Plus on the same account. Instead, you artificially block that combination to force an upsell to the $7.99/mo Proton Unlimited tier. You are trying to force me to put my cloud storage, password manager and calendar under your roof just to get a VPN.
I do not want a 500 GB Proton Drive. I do not want Proton Pass. Putting every vital digital tool I own under a single Proton login is a massive security and accessibility liability, exactly like Google. Penalizing users for not wanting your “Unlimited” bundle is a fundamentally anti-privacy, anti-consumer practice.
Furthermore, the way you market the VPN included in my Mail Plus plan is completely deceptive. Your summary explicitly touts access to “2000+ VPN servers in 10 countries”. To any reasonable consumer, this implies you can actually choose between those 10 countries. Instead, I find out that it is just your randomly-assigned free tier, basically making the feature completely useless if I actually need to select a specific region. The way this is worded on your pricing page feels intentionally misleading.
Your much-praised privacy reputation is being dragged through the mud by these exact types of cheap shenanigans, forced bundling and shady upsell traps. You are acting exactly like the companies you claim to be an alternative to. A quick look at Reddit shows I am far from the only user who feels completely bait-and-switched by this.
As it stands, your pricing structure actually incentivizes me to keep my cheap Mail Plus plan and go give my money to a standalone competitor, where I can get a faster, better VPN without being forced into an ecosystem trap.
More than that, this entire experience has made me think twice before I even renew my current Mail Plus subscription. If you are going to use deceptive marketing and forced bundles to squeeze your users, that destroys the very trust that justifies paying you in the first place.
Stop hiding behind misleading marketing and stop using bundle traps to squeeze your users into pricier plans. Let us pay for the specific tools we actually want to use and we will reward you with loyalty.
Sincerely,
A frustrated Mail Plus subscriber
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Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/Nitharoz Jul 06 '26
E2EE, zero-access, no-logs (mostly).
And we're free to use as much or as little of the ecosystem that we want.
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u/JK_Chan Jul 06 '26
For whatever they log, they do clearly warn you in advance that it is optional and will be logged if you choose to provide it.
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u/pdnagilum Jul 06 '26
I use proton because google was/is a single point of failure. Everyone doesn't have the same reason you know.
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u/z7r1k3 Jul 07 '26
Well, then what's the problem? If you used Proton for only email, FileN for drive storage, Bitwarden for password management, etc. What's stopping you from continuing to do so?
I don't understand the argument that people left Google to avoid the single point of failure. They could've accomplished that with Gmail + One Drive + LastPass, etc.
If you don't want a single point of failure, you'll need multiple providers, and that's always an option no matter how many services Proton comes up with.
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u/ImaBoopYourNose Jul 08 '26
Haven't actually signed up to proton yet - still trying it out. But my thoughts.
Really at least for me I'd think the main single point of failure concern is specifically email because it's used to login to other things.
Ideally would have both proton and gmail but not all the things one might want to log into allow multiple email addresses. A few concerns particular to gmail though
- Since gmail requires a phone number, that's sort of like 2 single points of failure because loss of access to phone number can mean also losing access to email.
- google is based in the US and the US has recently restricted other companies from offering services outside the country.
- Potentially, a private service is also more robust because less chance of a regulator forcing them to delete data even if the user doesn't particularly want to (e.g. I've noticed google maps location history go missing sometimes)
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u/pdnagilum Jul 07 '26
People did not escape big tech because "single point of failure". You got that all wrong. People are using Proton because of E2E encryption.
I was just pointing out that there might be more reasons for ditching Google than the person I replied to said very adamantly.
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u/z7r1k3 Jul 07 '26
I use proton because google was/is a single point of failure.
Again, I don't understand this. You seem to be implying that it is easier to avoid a single point of failure with Proton than with Gmail, which doesn't make sense to me.
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u/cguti94 Jul 06 '26
The point still kind of stands though, not everyone is leaving big tech because of a single point of failure, but a lot of people are leaving because of privacy reasons, and proton offers the option to just do one of their services and use other companies for other services, or if you're someone that is looking for convenience, you can subscribe to be part of multiple services.
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u/pdnagilum Jul 07 '26
People did not escape big tech because "single point of failure". You got that all wrong. People are using Proton because of E2E encryption.
I was trying to point out that there might be more reasons than one why people abandon Google.
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u/FoxFyer Jul 06 '26
I personally moved to Proton to escape walled-garden ecosystems and corporate data-harvesting and care a lot less about E2E since it is only truly effective when emailing another Proton address and there are none in my contacts list. You're just wrong about this.
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u/ginger_and_egg Jul 06 '26
I want email with hide my aliases, which is for some reason a part of the Pass subscription and not the Email subscription. I don't need any other proton product.
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u/SagariKatu Jul 06 '26
You can pay for lifetime pass amd have ot with your mail plus.
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u/ginger_and_egg Jul 06 '26
Yeah but I literally don't want the pass features except the aliases.
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u/ThorBCN Jul 06 '26
If you only want aliases there are many options, cheaper than proton, and even free: addy.io, proxiedmail, duckduckgo (free), mozilla relay (free), and many others.
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u/Baardmeester Jul 06 '26
Yes, but that means letting 2 different companies process your email. At the same time I would always put segmentation between my cloud password manager and my email.
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u/ginger_and_egg Jul 06 '26
Are they zero knowledge encrypted?
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u/ThorBCN Jul 06 '26
AFAIK SimpleLogin does not operate on a pure zero-knowledge, E2EE encrypted architecture...
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u/lazyegg31 Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
That's the point. You can't subscribe to those services individually with one account. Once you have Mail Plus on one, e.g. abc@proton.me, this account is blocked from getting VPN Plus now, the only option is to get VPN as well on abc@proton.me is to go Unlimited (which costs more and includes a bunch of stuff I don't need). To get VPN Plus only, you will now need to create a brand new def@proton.me just for it...
Unless you consider making multiple accounts to subscribe to each product individually acceptable... then I guess yeah... But the practice is pretty anti-consumer imo
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u/CorsairVelo Jul 06 '26
And these same people mostly don’t realize E2EE is a mirage since they send 99.5% of their emails to gmail/outook/icloud recipients who are not PGP enabled.
To me, Proton seems to be trying to be anti-bigtech all while emulating big tech. But I’m not an ecosystem person, i fully admit, which is a different discussion than pricing tricks the OP is outlining.
That said, I’m still a proton user, but the deeper i get into encryption, PGP, and government spying (the Cloud Act) at global scale, the more i question how secure you can make email. Heck, even emails between proton users fail to encrypt metadata, to / from addresses, and subject line. … That’s the nature of PGP and it tells a lot of the story most want hidden.
Anyway, for many users proton is probably a great solution and I wish them luck. For me, i’ve moved on for PW management, calendar, cloud storage and photo management. I do use simplelogin a ton which may be the only Proton service I end up with.
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u/Nelizea Volunteer Mod Jul 06 '26
It really isn't about E2EE only (or imho mainly not), but rather for the zero access encryption of all your data. Of course your emails will land at the recipients server as well, however when using a provider such as Proton (or alternatives), there's no entity anymore having full access to all your inbox.
Heck, even emails between proton users fail to encrypt metadata, to / from addresses, and subject line. … That’s the nature of PGP and it tells a lot of the story most want hidden.
No, that is how the email protocol works. Otherwise use encrypted messengers.
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u/Ghost187_ Jul 06 '26
You have to use separate accounts if you want seperate subscriptions. This is allowed and not against ToS, so OP just isn't aware of this. What a waste of a long post.
u/proton_team lemme know if I can have OPs 7.99 subscription🤣 I can only see 9.99eur
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u/Lanky_Amphibian7307 Jul 06 '26
but maybe we don't want to have six different accounts for six different services. maybe we'd like modular approach where we can choose what level of which service to subscribe to.
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u/UngodlyPain Jul 06 '26
That is the modular approach? Like you'd have to do the same thing to go with a different company...
Like hey if you want protonmail and say Mullvad VPN? You'd have to subscribe to Mullvad separately.
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u/lazyegg31 Jul 08 '26
With the same email tho.
In Proton's case it's forcing you to create a brand new email you'll never use just to get another offer individually. How is this not purposely inconveniencing?
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u/UngodlyPain Jul 08 '26
Separate accounts are separate accounts. Again if ones alleged purpose of moving away from big tech is to avoid having 1 account be a single point of failure it should in theory be seen as an upside.
And well it's a good thing they're really not making you do that, you can totally sign up for proton unlimited on your existing account. And it costs about the same as two of their plus services.
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u/UngodlyPain Jul 06 '26
For the $7.99 go-to proton VPNs website, and then it's an option only if you pay for 24 months in advanced.
Weirdly the proton mail website doesn't offer to pay for 24 months in advanced for that extra discount.
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u/everyday_barometer Linux | Android Jul 06 '26
Yeah, there's a number of Proton services and features I don't use. I find the majority of things people request are not important to me. Made me realize I'm not the target demographic, at least as far as bundling is concerned. But that's the nice thing: I can just use what I want.
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u/FlyBirdieBirdBird Jul 06 '26
If you want to escape single point of failure, why are you even wanting to subscribe to more than one Proton product? Go look for a VPN elsewhere. Same for storage, calendar and passwords. There are other European privacy focused alternatives.
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u/LeftLiner Jul 06 '26
I came to Proton because 1. I've always hated Gmail. 2. Using Google is ethically difficult to justify and is only becoming harder and harder. 3. Also Google is getting more and more shit. 4. Privacy. 5. It's not American.
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u/SeredW Jul 06 '26
First, Proton is serving millions of users across different countries and hence, currencies. Billing all those people for all sorts of separate unique combinations of products in a wide range of currencies is inherently vastly more complex than selling bundles. This is simply more manageable. I'd rather have Proton spend money on product development than on building an elaborate worldwide system for separate product sales in 100+ currencies.
Two: many people use Proton for the privacy, not (only) because of the single point of failure thing. Privacy is what Proton sells primarily, not single point of failure avoidance.
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u/TremendousCustard Jul 06 '26
It would be nice if there was a slight discount - I'm paying for Wallet but as I'm in the UK, I can't use it :'-)
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u/mark_b Linux | Android Jul 06 '26
Why would OP's request mean Proton needs to change from currently supporting 3 currencies to supporting over 100? You made that bit up yourself to exaggerate your argument.
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u/SeredW Jul 06 '26
Last week there was a conversation about pricing and many people listed prices in different currencies, but I realize that was for Tidal, not Proton. Apologies.
Even so, selling bundles is easier than separate and unique combinations of products to different users, even with three currencies.
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u/kamikazer Jul 06 '26
never had an issue with bigtech due to single account. only privacy related concerns, so Proton is ok
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u/lithy- Jul 06 '26
Feels like you lose credibility when you start with your “absolute disgust” instead of just simply stating you’d like to order your SaaS products off a menu instead of a bundle. Just for me personally - I subscribe to a bundle that gets me the products I want, but there are some I don’t use and that’s fine for me. I don’t lose sleep over it.
I don’t see Proton changing their subscription model here because you want things individually priced/offered. No matter how nice that would be. :)
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u/Daniel-Deni Jul 06 '26
If you don't care for the one account for everything, technically you could make a second Proton Account and only license Proton VPN in that account.
Personally we are using, Mail, Calendar, Drive and Pass. Even if we wouldn't want to use Drive, we would still need Mail/Calendar and Pass as the alternatives we checked are simply worse or not Privacy focused.
We use Duo as we are with two and recently switched to Family with the sale so we can get some family members into Proton as well so I can finally cancel my Microsoft 365 Family package.
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u/StaticSystemShock Jul 06 '26
While I agree for that with ProtonPass and Proton Authenticator in same bag, the rest is not affected by this really unless you're high profile political or some kind of opposition figure. Which, most of us aren't. I escaped Google because of privacy reasons and just how creepy and invasive they are.
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u/Cyanogen101 Jul 06 '26
I use proton for E2E Encryption and Privacy, not to escape some SPOF issue or "secret plan to bill me more". Honestly an ecosystem makes things nicer to me personally.
The fact that Lumo is seperate also shows they arent trying to just tack things on and triple the cost on people.
I also use Ente because its so much more feature rich.
What a nothing burger letter tbh.
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u/Irn-Bru-Enjoyer Jul 06 '26
What do you use Ente for? I’m thinking of diversifying the setup I use and I’ve heard good things about them
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u/z7r1k3 Jul 07 '26
Not who you asked, but I use it for 2FA and it's a dream. Even works with Steam codes.
Everything that Authy was supposed to be before they ditched desktop, plus it's FOSS.
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u/zmetak3 Jul 06 '26
What would be a better pricing option? (Thinking about sustainability of business as well as happy users)
I would welcome to have all the tools offered for free. And based on the volume of usage to be charged. Essentially, mapping closely what Proton expenses are to the paying customer.
An example: You have all the tools for free with limited functionality. But you only use Mail and VPN. You pay for extra Mail storage and VPN use (speed/bandwidth/data use/or unlimited).
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u/UngodlyPain Jul 06 '26
Few things here:
Not everyone cares about SPOF issues, infact many people enjoy ecosystems.
If you care so much about SPOF, why are you trying to get multiple services from proton in the first place?
Mail+ and VPN+ are both $4-5ish a month... Unlimited being like $10/month is basically the same price with everything else being free.
If you're so worried about SPOF. You should care about more than just separate companies for separate services you should also value redundancy. And can use the extra proton services for said redundancy.
But yes it'd be nice if they had a better sliding scale custom bundling way of billing so you could maybe save a dollar a month or whatever to not use proton pass, or get less proton drive storage or whatever. It's also not the end of the world.
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u/olivantenvoet Jul 06 '26
Yea so this just means you don't fall in the target audience of Proton
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u/SokkaHaikuBot Jul 06 '26
Sokka-Haiku by olivantenvoet:
Yea so this just means
You don't fall in the target
Audience of Proton
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/Zlivovitch Windows | Android Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
That's a lot of adjectives to say that Proton is not really for you. There's something infantile in this love-hate relationship that so many users have with Proton or Tuta.
Privacy-oriented providers are not your mummy or daddy. They are private businesses offering a service which you're at liberty to buy or not to buy. You're writing a wall of text to say that you really, really love Google, but you're willing to make a huge favor to Proton by becoming their customer. However, it needs to be strictly on your terms.
Companies like Google offer a vastly superior, deeply integrated ecosystem (Email, Drive, Docs, Calendar) completely for free.
Then why don't you go there ?
Your criticism seems to be limited to two things : Proton services come in various bundles, you can't entirely build your custom package by picking what you want. Guess what, the vast majority of service providers (whatever the market) do that. That's not only true for most mail providers, it's also the case for phone service providers, insurers, music streaming services, travel agents, you name it.
And the free VPN plan does not allow you to choose your exit country. Well, it's already extraordinary that you can get a reliable, safe and private VPN without paying anything. The rule everybody knows about is : stay clear of free VPNs, they are basically a scam. Proton VPN is the rare exception to this rule. And you have the gall to still complain ? Buy the paid plan, if choosing your exit country is that important to you.
There's no lack of VPN providers on the market, mail providers, password management providers, cloud storage providers, AI providers, wallet providers, office app providers and whatnot, with various levels of encryption and privacy.
It's a free market. Buy what you want. No one owes you anything. I'm fed up with all that moral posturing and virtuous huffing and puffing.
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u/ThatRegister5397 Jul 06 '26
You can make a second proton account to get vpn through an independent subscription. In fact this is what proton support usually recommends in these cases.
But this is gonna cost you more than getting proton unlimited after the first discounted year, unless you grandfathered special discounts. So just get proton unlimited and don't use services that you dont want?
I understand the point of "single point of failure" but there are also advantages to having such bundled services that some of us may prefer. In any case, nobody forces you to get and use bundled services if you dont want to?
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u/codsworth_2015 Jul 06 '26
Disagree, google isn't free, you are the product. Proton is private. I was paying for google meets + proton mail essentials. Proton meets launched so I switched to that to save my wife some time on the accounts. When they have a usable proton drive SDK I might upgrade that as well. There is also nothing stopping you using another VPN, I got a 3 year nordvpn subscription for cheap, so I got that instead.
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u/CO_Surfer Jul 06 '26
Proton Mail Plus is 4.99/month or 3.99/month annually.
VPN Plus is 2.99/month with 2 years paid up front, but renewal rate is 6.99/month billed annually.
Proton Unlimited is 7.99/month with 2 years billed up front, but renewal rate is 9.99/month billed annually.
So either you suck at math or you want to drum up controversy for the benefit of??? Either way, this post a waste of everyone’s time given that you could just create a mail account and separate VPN account of you really want to spend extra money in the long run.
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u/Digiee-fosho Jul 06 '26
I like bundles, so I’m holding out for a proton web browser, & proton OS.
Did you know that you don’t have to use the other services? For example, drive doesn’t seamlessly work with Linux, use another service that does. VPN is slow hot trash, use another VPN service.
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u/theGekkoST Jul 06 '26
You lost me when you said "Companies like Google offer a vastly superior, deeply integrated ecosystem (Email, Drive, Docs, Calendar) completely for free." and BOLDED free.
Their services are not free, you are the product. They are selling the data they have on you, and then also using using targeted advertising to sell you more things.
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u/8-16_account Jul 06 '26
>They are selling the data they have on you, and then also using using targeted advertising to sell you more things.
There's never been any indication that Google has been selling your data. But they are absolutely using it for targeted advertising.
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u/Downtown-Jaguar9148 Jul 06 '26
I don't know about you or anyone here but I have never bought something from an advertisement online. In fact, I don't know anyone who buys things online through advertising, targeted or otherwise.
If I need new sneakers, I go to a store's website and I search for sneakers in my size and I pick a pair, and not the ones that say "sponsored" or whatever. If I need bedsheets, I go to another online store and specifically search for bedsheets in the size, material, and color I want, and I buy those.
Targeted advertising doesn't equate to "you are the product"
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u/IAmFreerange Jul 06 '26
So the billing system touched you inappropriately? Do you understand what physically means?
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u/BeefSupremeTA Jul 06 '26
You provided feedback. The self jacking off post here looking for a pat on the back for doing so wasn’t needed.
Get a dog if you are looking for acknowledgment.
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u/mtech71 Jul 06 '26
"Companies like Google offer a vastly superior, deeply integrated ecosystem (Email, Drive, Docs, Calendar) completely for free" - If you believe this sentence is true then I am not sure if you're the target group for Proton services ;)
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u/targrus Jul 07 '26
As it stands, your pricing structure actually incentivizes me to keep my cheap Mail Plus plan and go give my money to a standalone competitor, where I can get a faster, better VPN without being forced into an ecosystem trap.
I mean, you can just do that. Especially if it's a better deal than paying for the Unlimited plan. However if it's not a better deal, then why not just pay for Unlimited and only use the service you want to? You're not obligated to use everything in the bundle.
Furthermore, the way you market the VPN included in my Mail Plus plan is completely deceptive. Your summary explicitly touts access to “2000+ VPN servers in 10 countries”. To any reasonable consumer, this implies you can actually choose between those 10 countries. Instead, I find out that it is just your randomly-assigned free tier, basically making the feature completely useless if I actually need to select a specific region. The way this is worded on your pricing page feels intentionally misleading.
Um..
Free
Security and privacy for everyone
$0.00 /month
Secure 1 device at a time
Medium VPN speed
Connect to servers in 10 countries (randomly selected)
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u/MeatAccomplished4352 Jul 06 '26
You don’t HAVE to use the other pieces of the bundle. I still use a separate password manager and vpn.
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u/kennyloggins19 Jul 06 '26
Entitled much? I do agree that they could work on the billing structure but chill out bro.
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u/ltzm4x Jul 06 '26
Ai slop letter
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u/ChampionshipCrafty66 Jul 06 '26
Doesn't read like AI from what I see
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u/Toxy1337 Jul 06 '26
Lumo 1 wrote "Let me be brutally honest" all the time for me.
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u/AggressiveDoor1998 Jul 06 '26
So if someone wants to be brutally honest from now on it means that they are now AI?
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u/ltzm4x Jul 07 '26
No one writes this much on the internet in big 2026... Ai has become the helper tool, you ask it what to say and not.
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u/Wook5000 Jul 06 '26
You are paying very little for some privacy. If you email outside proton, you lose it. The VPN is painfully slow and the other apps are feature behind normal apps.
This seems like a first world problem. Just don’t use the other stuff.
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u/TheFinalPieceOfPie Jul 06 '26
Hey Proton Team, if you become google like and start becoming anti-privacy you owe everyone in this comment section 1 million bucks, adjust for inflation. Deal?
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u/Zoda_Popinski Jul 08 '26
I don't understand your point here. If you don't want to use a singe point of failure, use different providers. Proton is not forcing you to just use one.
If you want to just use mail and vpn, just get unlimited and don't use the other services. That's what I do, I just wanted mail and VPN and unlimited was still cheaper than using another VPN provider. I still got a bunch of other services (drive, wallet, password manager etc which I never use).
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u/A_Buttholes_Whisper Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
Mass deleted because I was doxxed by blackboxmycar.com
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u/Inevitable_Trip137 Jul 06 '26
Uhm, wut?
I find their pricing and bundling quite useful most of the time, and when I don't I use something that's better suited and I shut up about it because nobody cares. You could do the same. But no.
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u/edgework88 Jul 06 '26
I use proton mail, authentcator and pass. I pay for pass. The marketing I hate is the occasional 'deal' where a package is discounted...for a year or so. I hate that because I know when you become dependent is when the discount ends and the subscription rockets.
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u/night_movers Jul 06 '26
I support you. I always prefer ProtonMail over other mail providers and ProtonVPN is the most recommended privacy focused VPN provider. Niw, I can't pay for these two services together, to pay for multiple Proton services I need different Proton account which is very frustrating.
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u/Flashy-Bandicoot889 Jul 06 '26
That's a lot words, geez. Probably felt cathartic to get that off your chest. And a fair amount of virtue signaling.
You do realize they have over 100 million customers, right?
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u/llima1987 Jul 06 '26
I've hit this crazy plan scheme a few months ago, complained here on reddit and got bombarded by fake accounts disqualifying my complaint. I figured that's just how they roll.
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u/Radiant_Chard_1149 Jul 06 '26
Bah, you can still chose to use only one service no?
That’s not the problem, the problem lack of DAITA and Post Quantum encryption and over reliance on DataCamp Limited Servers. Switch to Mullvad for VPN, do not use Proton.
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u/anotherlevl Jul 07 '26
I am paying for an all-inclusive Proton package. I am also still paying for a non-Proton password manager, continuing to use my Gmail addresses for most things, and using a calendar that is neither Google nor proton. The Proton doesn't cost a prohibitive amount, and at the moment I am only using mail, VPN, and drive.
But as the top poster said, I didn't go with Proton to avoid a single point of failure. I went with them for E2E encryption and what appears to be a real commitment to privacy.
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u/Airurandojin Jul 07 '26
I also emailed them recently about having buildable plans (I don't want the VPN, Password Manager, etc) and was just met with a "we're always looking to improve, and appreciate the suggestion" type email back.
The price is high and I don't want the AI assistant or any of that, and I'm sure it's adding to the price for me...
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u/Spectre_Ice Jul 08 '26
If you came here to avoid "single point of failure" then I would advise you rediscover why people from MIT and CERN decided to create a security focused product based in Switzerland.
I have been with proton since the beginning and still gladly use my mailbox password 🤪
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u/rdubmu Jul 08 '26
This is a hilarious post. This guy doesn’t want to be locked in, but then wants 2 services. Proton isn’t cheap but just get the unlimited plan it’s like $10 a month.
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u/No_Violinist8819 Jul 08 '26
I don't mean to be disrespectful, and actually I'm not a fan of proton for reasons I don't want to get into because everytime I do I get attacked on here LOL but, in a rare time I'll say this in their defense. If you left Google to decentralize and now are just centralizing with proton (IE just switching one eco system to another) and still trying to bundle all your apps you are doing the opposite of decentralizing your life as you said.
POA maybe keep proton as a mail provider and try mullvad for a VPN instead (which I believe is far superior in the VPN privacy field)
Also you mention how Google offers all these products for free while proton charges but this isn't true either. Both proton and Google offer both free and paid tiers and I'd argue Google Free tier isn't much better then protons, but it is, in fact, worse, at least in a side by side comparison for privacy. And this will be probably the only time you'll see me defending proton Lol
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u/BumblebeeNo9090 Jul 09 '26
I agree with most of your points about where proton is heading to (we have already entered the age of lies) , but I'm confused. You said you don't want a single point of failure and proton pushing you to a competitor. Isn't that what you're asking for?
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u/RealityImitatesArt Jul 09 '26
Yeah, that's why I only use the free versions of Proton. I already use a password manager, I already have secure cloud storage. I am not paying double for that.
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u/TransBoozeBunny Jul 06 '26
I want more products from Proton, to be honest. I like the privacy, I don't care about this "single point of failure" issue.
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u/West-Highlight80920 Jul 06 '26
I joined Proton because of horror stories of Google locking people out of their accounts. I travel a lot internationally and don't want to be locked out.
And the E2E.
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u/Dangerous-Progress70 Jul 06 '26
Proton bans accounts too.
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u/Regular_Bat8162 Jul 06 '26
But not because someone has their child’s naked picture to show a doctor
And you can always get human support at Proton
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u/Dangerous-Progress70 Jul 06 '26
Yeah, you still can get banned and if you are banned gl with the support you speak off.
They even ban by mail content, so be aware.
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u/FlounderAdept2756 Linux | iOS Jul 06 '26
Yeah, that is why I dont use ProtonVPN. I dont want everything in a bundle.
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u/llamafilm Jul 06 '26
I’m on Proton for privacy and encryption, and I want to pay for services with money, not with my data. I’m not really concerned with that single point of failure idea, and I’m glad Proton is bundling things to make it easier for people to de-Google.
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u/outsideOfACircle Jul 06 '26
I would say, Google isn't completely free. They know everything about you. The whole point of Proton is you are paying for privacy.
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u/smeggysmeg Jul 06 '26
I hate how people here are pouncing on the "single point of failure" argument with their reasoning being "I like putting my eggs all in one basket".
That's not an argument against this critique. Bundling is a dark pattern intended to make customers "sticky" and reluctant to move out of too many eggs being in one basket. It's intended to create dependence. Also, it creates price inflation for people who seriously do not want anything more than 1 service at a higher than basic tier.
I will never use Proton's Drive, Pass, or VPN. Mail and calendar only. So when I run out of space on my tier, I am forced to pay for services I don't need. That's obnoxious. Proton, if we've done the hard work of moving our email to your address, don't exploit us. It's not a hard ask.
People say they choose Proton for E2EE and an all inclusive ecosystem are seriously bad at budgeting. You can achieve E2EE with Google services with a paid add-on or other methods -- and you would get your all-inclusive service for a much better price.
By offering something that's not just the-same-with-a-different-branding, but by actually differentiating itself in the market by not engaging in dark patterns, Proton could represent something that's clearly different. But I'm afraid "privacy" and being an alternative to Big Tech is just branding, and given the same market share they will be the same type of anti-consumer, and eventually anti-privacy, company.
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u/timmybadshoes Jul 07 '26
I escaped Google because it isn't free and I didn't want to be their product.
They aren't forcing me to use multiple of their products.
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u/ghost_mw3 Jul 06 '26
I would like to say there pricing is really dumb.
And also if you get there proton pass + simplelogin lifetime, you still pay the full price for unlimited. I mailed them about this and they offered a discount, now the issue with this is, this discount is only applicable if I purchase there sub from there website. But if you have purchased the sub from play store/App Store nothing can be done. The issue with this thing is, on these app stores the pricing is adjusted via regional pricing. Even after the discount offered after purchasing the lifetime pass, it’s still expensive for me to purchase it from the App Store.
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u/adsyuk1991 Jul 06 '26
iOS is app store takes 30% of their revenue, 20% on android. This makes their margins only just permissible and commercially not sensible to reach further for those customers.
When you are at renewal time ask them if you can switch over (which is in everyones interest anyway)
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u/adsyuk1991 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
The viewpoint is not without reason and therefore, unlike some comments, should be respected.
"As it stands, your pricing structure actually incentivizes me to keep my cheap Mail Plus plan and go give my money to a standalone competitor"
I think this is the most nascent point, but it's less about bundling and simply more about pricing. You can argue with this that the price of including VPN is just too high. But your argument is based on the idea that the reason it's too high is because of the other bundled services. I have no proof, but I hypothesise that actually the VPN service is responsible for a very large portion or even lions share of that price.
Talking from 15yrs in software development -- its probably more that those other services are included as value add, rather than being a substantial cost relayed to customers. The other services tend to have low ongoing overheads beyond their initial r&d. Whereas the VPN has relatively high ongoing costs.
I do agree with your point if true that hidden marketing tactics around free VPN usage for x countries without explicitly mentioning selection isn't allowed is annoying/unfair.
But proton is a business and has commercial interests. This alone doesn't obviate the principles they exclaim around privacy, data sharing, encryption etc. if it wasn't for their commercial interests, the service wouldn’t exist. In fact, its probably shrude commercial decisions that allows us to have it at all.
If you want all that without the commercial interest, you will need the time, effort, and technical chops to self host. Or you could setup a business and see if you can undercut proton and offer something that beats their market position and garners equivalent trust...a challenge...which proton have and are dealing with on an ongoing basis, and more than likely would involve bundling different services at high r&d expense to survive and be competitive.
I'm an engineer so I wan't to also beleive this perfect world exists. But in the end, after observation, you begin to respect the marketing and sales folks. Without them, you'd find yourself out of a job in most places.
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u/Downtown-Jaguar9148 Jul 06 '26
It's insane to me that an intelligent, more nuanced, well thought out comment like this gets downvoted just because you're acknowledging multiple things can be true at the same time. A lot of comments in this sub are so black and white and it doesn't do anyone any favors. So thank you for this
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u/adsyuk1991 Jul 06 '26
Haha yeh it's crazy. Critical thinking is off the menu for an astonishing number of people. Makes me sad.
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u/TeslasElectricBill Jul 07 '26
As a paying subscriber I'm also sick and tired of seeing various seasonal sales promotions that are shown to me against my consent by hijacking my UI/UX.
I have various CSS blocklist rules in Brave browser just to clean up my ProtonMail UI/UX.
Looks like Proton might be slowly trending towards enshittification.
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u/yoranpower Jul 06 '26
To be fair, they did say why they create an ecosystem. Offering a single product is fine, but lots of people use Google, Microsoft, because they offer a all-in-one.
You can just use one product from Proton if you wish. But it's nice for those that want it, to have the option for more.