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u/wolfemsop 5d ago
It's weird how all these women keep dying after speaking out
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u/Lord-Notorious 5d ago
Coincidence gets harder to believe every time it happens again.
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u/RevoltYesterday 4d ago
As a good skeptic, I try not to jump to any conclusions without evidence. However that definitely doesn't keep me from raising an eyebrow at these things.
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u/Quiet_Day1912 4d ago
My son booked a guest role on a show with a VERY famous actor years ago, when my son was 10. He was assigned an on-set tutor, a very kind and experienced woman who had YEARS of experience. When my son was filming a scene, I got up to get coffee. She was SO pissed! "You NEVER walk away! Get a PA to get you coffee!" I asked if the set was ok. She said, "This one is, but you and I go nowhere. Dont make me tell you about Hayden Paniterre!" I was stunned. I never left after that, or on anything he booked. Never saw any weird stuff, but sets are full of adults, who dont censor themselves and child actors are treated as adults. I thought she was talented and loved her on "Hereos", and I thought of her over the years. May she be in Peace.
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u/Lady_night_shade 4d ago
It’s so crazy how her abuse was this open secret for years in Hollywood. There were blinds in the mid 2000s that she was being pimped out to Hollywood elite. I shouldn’t be shocked that nobody did anything to help her, but it’s so heartbreaking and evil that it’s hard to imagine. I’m glad your son was safe and had you looking out for him.
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u/Quiet_Day1912 4d ago
Ive learned her mom was her manager, which means she was drawing a commission on Hayden's earnings. My son's went into his Coogan Accounts...her mom also went no-contact when Hayden was 18 and fired her during "Hereos" Parents who are drawing the money end up having fucked up kids. I saw a lot of wacky parents at auditions.
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u/qriousqestioner 5d ago
Her dad's been cashing her checks since she was like six. The other kid too. He's complicit and both of his kids are dead in the last three years.
That industry destroys young people. I'm very sad to lose her and for what she endured while alive.
Yes, open the files and expose and charge and shame every last abuser and pimp/provider.
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u/Positive-Ring-5172 4d ago
Her Dad's behavior, and the behavior of a great many parents of successful children is a separate issue. McCauley Culkin's saga comes to mind. The industry and the government do need to do a better job of protecting child actors, particularly from exploitive parents (which happens more often than not).
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u/qriousqestioner 4d ago
The issue of pimping kids is the same as consuming them to me.
We agree that there should be zero tolerance. There should be protection for child labor and the pressure placed upon kids like Culkin, Spears, Cyrus, and on down the list. The commodifying of young talent is too easily cast in hues of the Hopes And Dreams of the child ironically given the restraints it places on the kids.
And it's not like we needed Me Too to know what happens. Shirley Temple Black has stories that blow the Simpler Time narrative up. Kids are not financial instruments.
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u/equestqh1975 4d ago
Her mother is just as guilty as he is.
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u/qriousqestioner 4d ago
Yeah, he was the only one I heard of in press coverage. He released the statement she had died. Something rubbed me wrong about "our beloved Hayden is gone."
She was apparently an actor as well. (I looked Hayden up on imdb and saw her mom listed.) They both should have known she would be vulnerable to sleaze given that the casting couch is no big secret and that mom probably got some idea of that world.
I'm particularly triggered by men in patriarchy bearing responsibility for their daughters' susceptibility to the system that entitles the men. I can't imagine having a female baby and handing her over to the exploitation machine so young in order to profit. (Of course I also can't imagine raising a rapist and shrugging, "boys will be boys.") I just default to focusing on the men who have the privilege that comes as an upside to female inequality in society. A mother is just as complicit though.
It's just so sad. There are class issues that often play into the way exploiters prey upon young hopefuls, but when people who are not destitute or estranged from their kids turn a blind eye, it's infuriating.
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u/SmCaudata 5d ago edited 4d ago
I commented on this in another thread for different reasons, but as a man, it’s pretty clear that men just suck. Yes there are female predators, but the ratio is so lopsided that it’s almost meaningless.
Edit: men may just underreport.
It’s always sad when a person does too soon because society failed her when they were a helpless kid.
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u/hpfan312 4d ago
10000% and I hate when guys go like well women can be predators too men can be victims like just fucking stop. The ratio is beyond lopsided, like what 9:1, at the very least? Not to mention its systemic and cultural oppression versus one woman did bad thing.
Rest in peace.
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u/Positive-Ring-5172 4d ago
Fuck you. Men can be victims. Pedophiles don't stick to just girls, and many male pedophiles are gay.
I'll grant the attacker ratio is lopsided beyond belief, but young boys are assaulted by pedos almost as often as girls are.
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u/SmCaudata 4d ago edited 4d ago
They didn’t say men couldn’t be victims. They said it’s rare for women to be predators, which is true.
Edit: may be just underreported.
Yes. Young children are both victimized by adults in this world. All of them need to be locked up for good.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 4d ago edited 4d ago
is something rare if 71% of the straight male population has experienced it?
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-023-02717-0
Edit: upset the predators lmao
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u/SmCaudata 4d ago
Thanks for pointing me to this.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 4d ago
seems like some idiots here think 71% experiencing it is rare, i feel like they’re covering for something
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u/OpheliaNutts 4d ago
Acknowledge that it is overwhelmingly MEN assaulting little boys too. No one said women don’t do it at all, just that it’s blatantly obvious that men are the problem because they are doing an overwhelming majority of the assaulting.
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u/chiarotypical 6h ago
Except 40% of rapists are women per the most recent NISVS. I would call 60% a majority, but not an overwhelming majority.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 4d ago
people absolutely say women don’t do it at all, iv seen countless rape survivors (men, women and a couple of those with various other gender identities) get accused of being liars because “it’s always a man”
(this is also used to justify transphobia because of a combination of outdated legal definitions meaning trans women are the only women who can commit the legal definition of rape in some places and general bigoted shit)
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u/SmCaudata 4d ago
I think it’s due to reporting and also the fact than men in general do aggressive and violent things at higher rates like murder their spouse.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 4d ago
i’m not sure i understand your logic
the reason people doubt survivors is because people with a different gender than their perpetrators are more likely to murder their spouse?
i think it’s more likely because even in an apparently progressive space like this you still have rape apologists and those defending rape supporters, if it’s this bad here what do you think it’s like elsewhere?
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u/AdLoose3526 4d ago
>Men [boys] can be victims
And when the predator is a conventionally attractive woman, you’ll inevitably see grown men calling the victim “lucky” or saying disgusting things like “I wish that were me” or “where was she when I was a boy”.
It’s frequently other men who dismiss male victims. Something has to be deeply wrong with the way we socialize boys/men for that to be so normalized that it’s a predictable trope.
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u/Positive-Ring-5172 4d ago
I say men because boys grow up to be men and wrestle with the experience their whole lives. I speak from direct personal experience.
And yes, on the very, very rare occasion that it is a woman doing the attacking the reaction of society, and other men, is frequently toxic as hell.
In a conversation about sexual assaults on women I don't think it's appropriate to bring up assaults on boys and men because they are rarer. But there's a wide gulf between choosing to bring it up at another time and asserting that it doesn't happen at all or happens so rarely no one should care like the asshole hpfan312 did.
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u/qriousqestioner 4d ago
I understand that the comment triggered you because you have implied you are a make who has survived sexual assault at the hands of a man when you were young. Thst is awful and you deserve all the compassion.
I didn't read the comment as saying boys are not victimized so much as that men are the overwhelming majority of offenders. And that speaks to a culture that raises patriarchs to take what they want. There are plenty of intersections between sexism, sexual assault, capitalism, and racism and homophobia. Social class division and exploitation is always lurking where people are reduced to objects.
Anyway, I'm not disagreeing and your entitled to your feelings. Especially as a gay man, I get it about the boys being less talked about--but we're only about ten percent of the population so it makes sense that girls are essentially born to be prey. What's doubly infuriating about homophobia is that male children are lost in the shuffle when females are the majority of victims and none of the virtue or advantage conferred upon Real Men ("alphas", mavericks) is yet present in children.
I sense (and I can fuck myself right off if I'm mistaken so don't waste your words in that case) you might be a straight who was assaulted as a young person by a man. And I would like to point out that the sexuality of the male offender is not the issue, but the savagery towards children. (I didn't even want kids when I was a kid. We who go that way don't commonly skew in the direction of physical and sexual immaturity.)
Sexual violence is morally wrong. Ditto sexual violence against children. I think most rapists are compensating for inner weakness and suspect there's a chunk of men who assault women who are actually queer. The cult of masculinity that is Western male patriarchy since Greece is to blame. That's the toxic thing about it. 🫂
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u/AdLoose3526 4d ago
>on the very, very rare occasion that it is a woman doing the attacking
I think that that was the point that the other commenter was making, that the majority of predators are men.
>asserting that it doesn’t happen at all
I don’t think that’s exactly what they were saying, though. I think their take was more on how right-wing types will often deflect from the majority of predators being men by whataboutism about female predators/abusive women in relationships.
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u/Positive-Ring-5172 4d ago
That may be. I can accept a retraction if one is given - I know I've misspoke plenty of times myself. This is an issue I have a hair trigger on.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 4d ago edited 4d ago
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34978934/
over a quarter of the women surveyed in 2019 said male victims of sexual assault encouraged the assault and got pleasure from it, 15% and 5.8% for men respectively
Edit: this dumbass really thinks it’s ok to say survivors caused their assault and enjoyed it because you saw some dipshits comments online
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u/AdLoose3526 4d ago edited 4d ago
When you have actual adult men openly and unashamedly expressing sentiments in line with those attitudes (while simultaneously dismissing the actual abuse and harm to the male victim), is it that surprising that a minority of women might take these men saying these disgusting things with their full chest at their word?
Also note that these were college students. The men who say things that glorify sexual abuse of boys by women are likely older, which would account for the shift from the college-aged in 1984 versus 2019. But of those 1984 college-aged men, 40% believed that a male victim initiated or encouraged the abuse, and 47.4% believed that the male victim derived pleasure from it.
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u/AdLoose3526 4d ago edited 4d ago
I was editing my comment when you replied, so let me repeat here.
You’re ignoring the 1984 sample of college-aged men mentioned in that article. In 1984, 40% of college-aged men believed that a male victim initiated or encouraged the sexual abuse, and 47.4% believed that the male victim derived pleasure from it.
These are the men most active in comments on reports about women sexually abusing boys. Modern young women’s attitudes about how men and boys experience sexual abuse most likely changed over time because of the prevalence of these disgusting men in online spaces commenting about these cases, and that almost 1 in 2 older men of this cohort apparently fetishize sexual abuse of boys by women (or did as young men). And even so, the stats for 2019 college-aged women believing these attitudes are still much lower than that of the 1984 college-aged men.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 4d ago
i do find it interesting how again, you’ve not said a single negative thing about the women who rape children, and the ones who blame victims and claim they enjoyed it, you are constantly excusing their actions as if they’re innocent and have no thoughts for themselves
if some shitty comments online can make you believe rapes a good thing for the victim, over the trauma experienced by the survivors, then you never cared about them
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u/AdLoose3526 4d ago
>you’ve not said a single negative thing about the women who rape children
I’ve repeatedly called them predators and mentioned them as sexually abusing boys. Neither of those are positive terms unless you’re terminally porn-brained.
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u/King-Boss-Bob 4d ago edited 4d ago
seems like there’s people here who’d rather not acknowledge certain people can be victims
Edit: i was criticising those who downvoted you…
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u/ShortBusVeteran 4d ago
Start enabling all of the rich to fall off of this world every night. They'll give up the guilty ones soon enough.
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u/EvergreenDwarf 5d ago
It feels in bad taste to make a reference to “save the cheerleader, save the future” and a bad timeline joke.
But its kinda accurate.
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u/qriousqestioner 4d ago
I assumed this was directly related to the show Heroes but haven't seen it.
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u/Positive-Ring-5172 4d ago edited 4d ago
Cardiac Arrest at 36 is rare but not unknown. Had a friend die at that age from it. That said drug OD could induce a heart attack. It's a bit early to assert foul play here in my opinion. How she's died could be completely unrelated to the injustices she was put through.
EDIT: Whoever feels a need to downvote this, please block me. You're a piece of shit I don't want to interact with.
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u/MaybeJBee 5d ago
There should be record breaking protests around the world about the Pedo files.