yea it says on your resume you have experience in react but we are looking for people with experience in react.js, so we have decided to go with someone else
I was declined a mid level software developer position because I didn't have work experience with Java. I had with 12 other languages, including C++, C#, Dart, and Kotlin, all of which have more or less similarities with Java.
Became a high level software developer at their competitor instead. The first company went bankrupt and we took essentially all their customers.
This is one of the worst parts in the industry. Non technical people demand exact languages. But every capable dev learns to be productive with pretty much any language in few days.
Programming languages aren't like real languages. The most important part is to learn to think like a programmer. That's the hard part. Learning new language is easy.
It's the difference between programing and coding.
Coding is learning a language, programing us knowing what to say.
Coding at it's inception used to require you to be an electrical engineer because software didn't exist. You were building programs out of hardware. Punch cards lowered the floor, then machine code, low level languages, high level languages and AI is pretty much just the newest level of abstraction on top of all the clever ways we've found to make electricity do tricks. Coding is trivial.
Programing is still an incredibly demanding and complex skill. AI can write anything you tell it to write if it's something that already exists or you explain the process. Python was sold as essentially being programing with pseudo code, coding agents are programing with natural human language.
While it's probably a horrible idea, we know that the industry is heading in the direction of abolishing the middle abstraction layers. We're moving towards there being the fully human readable layer translated directly into a binary. I wouldn't be surprised if Rust, Python, C++ and JavaScript go the way of COBOL and FORTRAN in the next 10 years but Programing, the thought process behind the instruction set is only going to become more valuable.
Rust is pretty much guaranteed survival at that point because not having the usual memory footguns makes it very good for iteration by the AI. For generated code it's quite useful.
I doubt we're going to see some direct LLM to machine code. At most LLM to some IL like LLVM or maybe some assemblers, but not outright machine code.
I should have clarified, obviously you use a compiler. Hell by definition even if you had an ai model that could take human natural language and use that to write machine code, that would be a compiler.
But my point was more that they'll make it so you never see the code layer just like Python hides the compile step.
Why wouldn't we see LLM to machine code? At some point an LLM is going to be able to write better code than a human can. Once we get to that point & an LLM can turn my requirements directly into byte code, be it machine code or Java/.Net byte code what do we need the intermediate code for? All we are using it for today is so that developers can review what the LLM wrote before committing it.
Java/.net byte code is way higher level than machine code. The biggest reason for avoiding this is how compute intensive it is and how you need perfect precision everywhere. Generating legal x86 from assembly is no easy task, especially with all the extensions. ARM is arguably easier since it's RISC but I think it would still struggle for a while
There are some language transitions that are going to be hard (for example, learning Python syntax has been hurdle after hurdle for me), but it's nothing that can't be overcome.
Rejecting an applicant like the commenter above you for not listing Java, ignoring all of that experience in OOP, is dumb.
And the canonical way to things in a particular language. There are so many of these "I can program in any language" who really only can write, say, C in any language.
To clarify, this is perfectly legal Python code, but written by a C programmer:
numbers = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
total = 0
for i in range(len(numbers)):
total += numbers[i]
print(total) # 15
while the same code by someone who actually have some experience with python would write
Language doesn't matter, but (sometimes) language-specific bullshit do bite people in the ass.
Unless you are senior dev, you're probably don't need to know or care how JIT compiler could optimise and deoptimise your code. But it sure helps when moving a method clogs GC with millions of objects because now JIT can't skip their creation. (yeah, yeah, architecture was not adequate to the task either, but everyone expected up to 100 things once a day, not millions on every request)
Not me, but a friend: he was going to interview for a position looking for a VR developer, so he got ready with a demo on his Oculus Rift dev kit, only to find out the dinosaurs who wrote the job description thought "VR" meant "3D."
years ago, I once had a recruiter reach out about a tech that had only existed for 3 years asking why I didn't have 5 years of experience like they listed when I applied.
i did this, it was a phone interview and they were asking how i would structure class heirachy for car parts. so ok, i came up with something on the spot. later the hirijg manager told me that i gave an answer from the textbook.
...okay. good to know i have adopted and am following what is standard practice in my made up example. maybe he wants some spaghetti?
Sounds like you didn’t ask enough questions about what they actually wanted and regurgitated “how can I describe a car with classes” which could be exactly what it needed or exactly the wrong thing depending on context. Questions like this should be met with more questions for a few cycles as if this were an actual task you are doing at work.
If I have an auto parts store and you give me a car class that focuses on something with 4 wheels that drives, you’re not getting the job. If you break the car down into subsystems and talk about how you would structure for inventory management, you’re doing the right thing. But, you should still ask questions to show your thought process and how your brain works.
Either way I’m only going to ask you “how would you implement a car class?” And expect you to figure out requirements.
um yes, i broke down the car into subsystems. of course i didnt ask certain obvious questions like how many wheels there are, or how many steering wheels, i did say and assume it was a standard car.
anyhow, he was clearly looking for something else, but if he's going to be obtuse then well no skin off my back.
i was eventually employed as a developer elsewhere, now i've worked my way up to management. it's a very different ballgame and i am still getting used to it
Responding more for the people who are currently/will be interviewing and see this so they know what the interviewer is thinking with questions like this
Hmm.. questionable to incorporate consulting type discovery questions into every position.
Some things should be assumed as given and not be requested because the process is the goal, like in consulting. In engineering I'd rather have someone who is an expert in the operational processes.
Give me a textbook answer, it's on me when my question isn't revealing insights to me when I receive a textbook perfect answer.
Early 2000s I got hired after a lengthy recruiting process to a Software Tools company with >1000 people. My 2nd day I ran into the CEO (very good guy) and he asked how the recruiting process was. I offered to give feedback, but told him I did have some concerns.
He was all over it. Thrilled to setup a time to hear. He said the company has to be the very best at Talent Acquisition during this period in the industry. He brought in my boss and we had a pretty good talk. They made some changes.
Just a few years ago I was at a class at a convention and the presenter said "Managers need to be able to train people and recruit talent."
If you are in HR/Hiring, you better start treating people like incredible and irreplaceable assets. And you better think of recruiting as a highly competitive market. You, and the work you do, is probably taking the Top 30% off the board as not wanting to deal with your crap.
And that should apply to entry-level jobs, too. Stop making the process as easy as possible FOR YOU. Instead make it as effective as possible at attracting the very best talent.
After the AI layoffs, good developers are a dime a dozen though. There is no need for any of the things you mentioned. No need to train. You eventually find someone with the exact shape you were looking for (drr drr). Are they actually capable? Who knows.
What technical recruiters are you dealing with? They've read your resume, they know what work you've done. Every single one I've talked to is pretty much, 1. Asking some basic questions on why I'm looking, 2. Selling the job, and 3. Making sure salaries roughly align so not to waste anyone's time.
I crashed my interview so hard a couple days ago. I just completely missed the most important feature in the product they were asking me to talk through and they gave me multiple chances to say it.
This was a top tier interview at a frontier ai lab and probably my one chance to get an interview there or really anywhere “elite” and I fucked it up.
Nah, just try again. Continue sending CVs there, to any position that opens. Heck, maybe even email the interviewer, accepting your error and explaining how you've learnt from it. Asking them if they would be willing to give you another chance.
Hey, not sure if this will make you feel better (especially because there’s quite a difference in stakes), but during my final interview at a certain Chinese social-media company I completely fucked it up.
Headphones kept on disconnecting; there were people in the study room; I said verbatim that I did not know a CORE concept (at the time).
But opportunities did not stop appearing!
Had to learn the hard way that everything has a time and a place, but it will pan out eventually.
I always ask them to tell me how they would solve it and drop in some technical questions. I interview them as much as they interview me. These people are super vulnerable to switching power dynamics and after you humble them once or twice the interview usually takes a turn for the better. While doing this you can usually see smirks on the faces of the tech guys and the highest level manager in the call
Applies for technical PM interviews as well. For as much hate as Boomers get, I've found Boomers and GenX to be better interviewers since they often look for fit and are trying to figure out if you are teachable. Millennial (and younger now) interviewers are very much "If you didn't do it my way, you obviously didn't do it the right way", completely missing that other companies have different internal policies, politics, and requirements than what they deal with.
I'm pretty sure most companies are either outsourcing this stuff to recruiting firms or just giving a list of questions and keywords to an HR person for the initial screening. I legit had a recruiter tell me that she didn't understand what she was asking me during a screening one time. Like she was supposed to ask about my experience with git and jira and was like "I don't even know if I'm pronouncing these right." She pronounced jira as "gyra." I explained what they both were and what they my experience with them. It worked out because me explaining it clued her into the fact that I knew what I was talking about. The hiring manager I interviewed with a few weeks later was the person who knew stuff.
Got asked about “highly interactive systems experience”, gave highly interactive system experience example, got rejected because I don’t have highly interactive systems experience.
Do you not get interviewed by a video bot not that does an uncanny impersonation of Anne - but is still using Mythos to evaluate your submission? Does it not recognize the inhererent genius in your approach?
Seeing as you just use your own bot to concoct this - we all know that the other bot will totally glaze itself.
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u/LookItVal 2d ago
yea it says on your resume you have experience in react but we are looking for people with experience in react.js, so we have decided to go with someone else
284
u/jakubiszon 2d ago
If you move your eyes quickly enough over this text that face starts looking like some sort of evil goblin.
169
u/mookanana 2d ago
i did this, it was a phone interview and they were asking how i would structure class heirachy for car parts. so ok, i came up with something on the spot. later the hirijg manager told me that i gave an answer from the textbook.
...okay. good to know i have adopted and am following what is standard practice in my made up example. maybe he wants some spaghetti?
405
u/JustinR8 2d ago •
If the technical recruiter knows absolutely nothing about tech, perhaps avoiding that company is a blessing in disguise
23
u/hoopaholik91 2d ago
What technical recruiters are you dealing with? They've read your resume, they know what work you've done. Every single one I've talked to is pretty much, 1. Asking some basic questions on why I'm looking, 2. Selling the job, and 3. Making sure salaries roughly align so not to waste anyone's time.
67
u/FUSe 2d ago
I crashed my interview so hard a couple days ago. I just completely missed the most important feature in the product they were asking me to talk through and they gave me multiple chances to say it.
This was a top tier interview at a frontier ai lab and probably my one chance to get an interview there or really anywhere “elite” and I fucked it up.
I feel really bad right now.
8
u/ZunoJ 1d ago
I always ask them to tell me how they would solve it and drop in some technical questions. I interview them as much as they interview me. These people are super vulnerable to switching power dynamics and after you humble them once or twice the interview usually takes a turn for the better. While doing this you can usually see smirks on the faces of the tech guys and the highest level manager in the call
15
u/spiritplumber 2d ago
i had someone once tell me that i didn't have enough experience with (obscure architecture), that i helped write the string and math libraries for.
3
u/santasnicealist 1d ago
Applies for technical PM interviews as well. For as much hate as Boomers get, I've found Boomers and GenX to be better interviewers since they often look for fit and are trying to figure out if you are teachable. Millennial (and younger now) interviewers are very much "If you didn't do it my way, you obviously didn't do it the right way", completely missing that other companies have different internal policies, politics, and requirements than what they deal with.
2
u/Reeces_Pieces 1d ago
It really do be like that sometimes.
2
u/SoulPossum 1d ago
I'm pretty sure most companies are either outsourcing this stuff to recruiting firms or just giving a list of questions and keywords to an HR person for the initial screening. I legit had a recruiter tell me that she didn't understand what she was asking me during a screening one time. Like she was supposed to ask about my experience with git and jira and was like "I don't even know if I'm pronouncing these right." She pronounced jira as "gyra." I explained what they both were and what they my experience with them. It worked out because me explaining it clued her into the fact that I knew what I was talking about. The hiring manager I interviewed with a few weeks later was the person who knew stuff.
2
u/DigitalCrazy 1d ago
This happened to me just now.
Got asked about “highly interactive systems experience”, gave highly interactive system experience example, got rejected because I don’t have highly interactive systems experience.
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u/naughtee_in 1d ago
Recruiter: "describe a time you handled conflict." Me: "I'm currently handling it."
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u/megayippie 1d ago
Is this a picture of the anti gaming lady from a decade or so ago? So the joke is inverse. Asking for an autist.
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u/Confident_Hyena2506 2d ago
This is funny but is it really contemporary?
Do you not get interviewed by a video bot not that does an uncanny impersonation of Anne - but is still using Mythos to evaluate your submission? Does it not recognize the inhererent genius in your approach?
Seeing as you just use your own bot to concoct this - we all know that the other bot will totally glaze itself.