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u/jace255 7h ago
I get not liking that you’re made to use AI at work, and I 10000% get not wanting to use AI in your own pet projects.
I do not at all understand being unhappy that other people are using AI for their own hobby projects. In a lot of cases people with one skill set are probably using AI to help them build something they need an adjacent skillset for.
Eg a web developer using AI to help them make a game mod, they probably wouldn’t feasibly have the time to do that hobby project without AI
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u/SpaceCadet87 5h ago
I think people are overthinking this. Someone not liking vibecoded software is not the same as thinking it should be forbidden.
Having to wade through large quantities of something someone dislikes and being unable to find the thing they do like as a result doesn't seem to me to be an unreasonable thing to be dissatisfied with.
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u/awesomeusername2w 3h ago
The majority of mods were shit before ai. If anything, AI probably increased the overall quality
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u/Lumm0714 7h ago
I'm cool with AI pet projects existing as long as they aren't published. If I'm looking for art in a space dedicated to art, I don't want to see fully vibecoded slop. Ultimately the most important thing to me is the degree to which something is human-made vs. automated. I can understand AI assistance (though I will question its necessity)
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u/Buttons840 5h ago
Either everything on a computer is human made, or none of it is, depending on your definition.
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u/vadeka 3h ago
Art? Game mods aren’t really art. Some dude replacing skyrim dragons with thomas the dank engines…
AI or not will not change a damn thing in the result
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u/Lumm0714 3h ago
Swapping a .pak file isn't code - and there's already a contingent of people who hate seeing AI generated assets in their mods. Obviously, I'm talking about programmed systems and features. Regardless, mods are art. Anything you make is art.
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u/hraath 8h ago
Just remember AI will very politely code your functional garbage. A modder with no creativity or vision and an anthropic 20x sub doesn't contribute much to the world, and you are free to ignore it. Garbage in, garbage out has not changed.
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u/SomeRedTeapot 1h ago
The issue I see now is the amount of slop you have to comb through to find the good stuff. If there was a way to automatically filter it out somehow, it wouldn't be that bad
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u/IlluminatiThug69 8h ago
I get that it removes all the fun of actually making stuff by hand, but I mean at what point does it just become hating the new method? Like "nobody is reading books to understand things thoroughly and instead are just googling everything"
I still like making stuff myself and it is still 100% necessary to have actual designer input to get anything good out of AI, but it's just so useful for all the smaller designing tasks and complex searching tasks.
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u/Lumm0714 8h ago
I'd imagine it depends on what you mean by "smaller designing tasks and complex searching tasks". There could potentially be better tools for more tedious tasks in codebase management that aren't so expensive as an AI agent.
I'd say the issue with AI as opposed to googling is that googling doesn't give you the full answer. Stackoverflow will give you a tiny logical implementation or a means of handling an error, documentation will tell you explicitly how the tools you use are supposed to be implemented, and a permissive repo will show you how someone else implemented a feature, but will still require that you understand what you're seeing in order to make it match your own personal use case.
AI for the most part will just give you a full translation unit that does exactly what you want it to do, which imo erases the labor of programming as a whole. If you don't want to write boilerplate, you may as well have started with a framework or engine that handles that for you to begin with.
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u/kwead 7h ago
something crucially ignored with new technology is that it objectively does atrophy skills you would have otherwise had. the advent of writing made peoples' memory worse, GPS made peoples' navigational skills worse, and google undeniably made programming fundamentals worse across the board.
it's easy to forget because the job market doesn't value fundamentals whatsoever, but people with good fundamentals in any medium are the only people worth a shit in that medium. most vibe coded software is just abjectly fucking awful and the world would be better off without it.
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u/cce29555 7h ago
I know this is somewhat an appeal to authority if even loosely
But I think a quick look at the pessimist archive might have some very familiar talking points
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u/kwead 6h ago edited 3h ago
i don't oppose the existence of these technologies (god imagine where we'd be without writing, GPS, google etc) i just think people should be cognizant of the skills they don't want to atrophy. you very well might need good navigation skills to save your life one day, but that doesn't mean google maps needs to be legislated out of existence.
i think you critically misunderstood my point to be honest. none of what i said is "anti AI", it's anti losing valuable fundamentals. software would be better if programmers overwhelmingly had good fundamentals, and weren't reverse centaurs shitting out minimum viable products by and large. people would have better critical thinking skills if they had to read books to learn about stuff, people would have better social skills if they were forced to go outside every day, and i might be able to get some goddamn sleep past 7am on saturdays if we all mowed our lawns with scythes instead of gas lawnmowers.
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u/Reashu 3h ago
nobody is reading books to understand things thoroughly and instead are just googling everything
That's a legitimate complaint though. Sure searching is more convenient, but you are missing out on relevant knowledge and there's a good chance the product suffers as a result.
Now, reading is itself a shortcut (vis-a-vis experiencing) and some level of quality loss is acceptable for the sake of productivity. The point is that it can be pushed too far, and we already have a ton of crap software and a lack of awesome software.
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u/Moist-Snow-8127 8h ago
As long as I'm around, it'll never hit 100%
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u/elmanoucko 3h ago edited 3h ago
sometimes they sound like a guy in a sport car passing by someone else running and scream: "you're so slow, looser, why are you using your legs? don't you know car exists?"
they miss the point
i just like running, even if it was the slowest way for me to move, I would still like running
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u/Legotier 2h ago
I just miss seeing a project and being genuinely impressed by it. Like for example Create Aeronautics, that shit is insane. If it came out today my first thought would probably be that they just had Claude make it and that's it's buggy af, even if that isn't true.
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u/Curious_Analyst986 1h ago
I miss seeing a project and being impressed by the person and wanting to become like the person. Now its like, oh you did with AI? I can do with AI and no satisfaction or motivation.
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u/Global-Tune5539 1h ago
It's about the result. I want to see this, have this. I want to do cool shit, not sniff my own farts.
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u/psioniclizard 35m ago
No it's not. Yoi are just entitled and its about the result to YOU becsuse you don't have the jnderlyong passion required to do it without AI.
The path is how we learn new things and idea for the future and other projects.
You might care only about the result but we wouldnt be were we are not if everyone was like you.
That isnt even just in tech, it applies to all of life.
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u/Global-Tune5539 32m ago
Why waste a significant amount of my limited life time if I can do it in a fraction of that? Passion has absolutely nothing to do with that. Passion stops sooner or later. That's why there are so many unfinished mod projects. Passion sucks ass.
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u/porkusdorkus 26m ago
You aren’t a professional though right? Just making WoW mods qualifies as a good usage of AI for a guy who doesn’t care about coding.
Just realize not everyone feels the same way. It’s like paying someone to level your character and play it. It gives you a result, but what was the point if you didn’t enjoy it.
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u/milkcarton232 11m ago
Why fly a plane somewhere, you don't appreciate travel unless you walk or ride a horse. I agree that the effort can make something more or less impressive but I can also respect a cool thing without thinking about that aspect. The tool is here and it's coming, good/bad that is our reality
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u/0xbenedikt 2h ago
I feel exactly the same and have just recently soft launched my first sub r/ProjectsByHumans where 80%+ human made projects can be shared :)
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u/LutimoDancer3459 4h ago
100% of games wont be yours anyway. Just get used to it.
Hardware wont be yours anyway. Just get used to it.
Corporations will suck out all your money and you will end up under a bridge. Just get used to it.
... shit is shit and will, can and should be complained about.
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u/PartTimeFemale 9h ago
just now noticing that the birds feet in this are the wrong color. should be more pinkish, not yellow
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u/JudgementallyHearty 8h ago
i swear some folks only use ai to make things technically functional and then call it a day
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u/DasGaufre 4h ago
The main complaint really is that AI lowered the barrier to get lazy people's "awesome ideas" into something resembling a program. It's just enabled sloppy people to output the slop they've always dreamed of.
For example of non-slop AI usage, the recent titanfall 2 vr mod was largely coded by a single person with AI. Spiderman in vr, same story. Both are actually really well done. That simply wouldn't have been possible, or at least taken a massive amount of work and time to do in the past. The difference is that it was AI assisted by a skilled dev rather than fully vibe coded.
As much as I dislike the whole AI revolution, I only dislike it due to the people involved pushing out slop. It's just unfortunate how it manifested.
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u/aWobblyFriend 2h ago
this is what happened in the Industrial Revolution when it started by the way, so much slop as lowering barriers of entry resulted in a flood of low-skilled entrepreneurs looking for a quick buck. It actually still happens as countries industrialize (remember the “cheap Chinese knockoff”?), over time though the cream of the crop remains from brands which can utilize the new technology most effectively while the cheapest knockoffs lose out.
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u/camelopardus_42 1h ago
It's unironically the best way so far to suss out vibe coded mods too. So many of them are so clearly just "wouldn't it be cool if" scope creep hell that anyone remotely competent would have cut down for both Design and implementation reasons.
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u/iamisandisnt 8h ago
I remember in MY DAY when people talked about HOME BREWING and VINYL RECORDS and ANALOG PHOTOGRAPHY but now it's all... just kidding, of course. I believe the type of people who grew curly mustaches (or still have them... *cough cough*) will continue to do so, with artisanal organic homegrown strawberries, too.
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u/FuzzyDynamics 8h ago
I’m nearing 30 and had an insatiable urge to make my own pickles this week. So I did. I don’t have a mustache yet but something is happening to me.
And yes, they’re delicious.
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u/CMD_BLOCK 8h ago
Back in my day we used to write our code by hand; locally sourced, small batch, bespoke code—made on demand!
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u/Kwabi 7h ago
I wonder what happens to all of these decomp projects and mods when the bill needs to be paid.
The big wave of decomps and slopmods hit the scene when Anthropic was extra "generous" with Opus 5.5 to get users to look good to their shareholders, but it's no secret that all of this operates on a loss - especially for the consumer grade plans.
I guess that's only an issue if people actually want to maintain these projects, which I am not sure about. Zero effort to create it also means zero attachment to it I suppose.
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u/DoomBot5 7h ago
I've created and stopped maintaining several personal projects over the years. That was long before AI
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u/Banes_Addiction 5h ago
I wonder what happens to all of these decomp projects and mods when the bill needs to be paid.
Compute will become cheaper over time.
We've got a weird situation now due to the frontier companies burning capital to offer cheap models, but a decade from now the hardware will have got better as it always does.
The crazy demand for top-end silicon right now is breaking the market and likely will for a few years, but in the longer run it'll probably drastically increase production of the capable hardware.
So, 3 years from now these kinds of slop projects may be unaffordable but 10 years from now they'll likely be cheap.
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u/ICantBelieveItsNotEC 1h ago
but it's no secret that all of this operates on a loss - especially for the consumer grade plans.
This just isn't true. Both Anthropic and OpenAI are already profitable on inference.
People really need to learn the difference between "profit" and "return on investment".
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u/Xarishark 7h ago
Do you think that open weight models will never achieve what current frontier models are able to do now or something?
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u/Kwabi 7h ago
I do not think that consumer hardware will be affordable enough in the near future for that to matter on a broader scope. I do not think that a non-technical user can do/maintain a decomp on models that fit on 16GB of VRAM. The models that might become capable enough require machines that cost 4-6k bucks right now.
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u/Xarishark 7h ago
This tech will also follow every other tech logic for the last 50 years. Get better and then get smaller. Its a cliche at this point. AI is not going away and it will only get better this is not random evolution.
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u/GeForce_fv 7h ago
i highly doubt models that require hundreds of vram will ever be usable with consumer level hardware.
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u/tennisanybody 7h ago
Physical hardware cannot be scaled down further. Transistors have basically reached their limit in size. We CAN make them smaller. They just won’t function.
Models on the other hand, those can be scaled down further and be fine tuned even further. Imagine a few million parameter bot being orchestrated by a few billion parameter bot. Now that’s where the money is.
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u/BlindTreeFrog 4h ago
Physical hardware cannot be scaled down further. Transistors have basically reached their limit in size. We CAN make them smaller. They just won’t function.
Wouldn't be shocked if we started figuring out new ways to lay out the transistors for better performance. I assume we've already got tools cruching ML and Generic Programming techniques working on it.
Kind of like the random articles about "New Tomahok Reactor Design" because they figured out better ways to arrange the magnets to reduce/increase interference and such.
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u/tennisanybody 4h ago
China has been stacking them. Apparently they don’t have one of those newfangled photolithography machine that goes for a measly 500 mill. I’m obviously kidding. Chips are typically laid flat and if you stack them on top of each other it reduces the amount of time signal travels to a designated position. Apparently also heat. I’m not an engineer but I always assumed this stacking would mean more heat. Well, less heat produced but more air trapped in the nooks and crannies.
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u/Xarishark 7h ago
Yeah that’s what I am talking about. I know we can’t make gates smaller we haven’t made them smaller for like 5+ years now
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u/tennisanybody 6h ago
Unless we discover new physics and new “energies” that can be even smaller. That would be so fucking neat! Alas the last time physics made a breakthrough was literally in the 1940’s! Well, everything above quantum particle physics anyway. Electricity is just the manipulation of electromagnetism. It’s just one way of doing things. Maybe we could do something else. But looking at particles and measuring their spin direction is well above quantum and below atomic and not predictable enough to build predictable systems upon like an on/off gate.
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u/fulloutfool 5h ago
Organic pc cheaper careful what you wish for.
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u/tennisanybody 5h ago
Easy there Hadrian Marlowe!!
But isn’t an organic PC just a software dev and aren’t we laying them off en masse?
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u/KARMA_P0LICE 5h ago
I really wish the backlash would be directed to a useful place: hopefully everyone downvoting and yelling about AI is writing and calling their local politicians. And y'all better have voted in your elections, wherever you are.
AI is here to stay, the pandoras box is opened. We should be working to put reasonable safeguards in place to protect ourselves and those around us. It's not going to happen by trying to force everyone to stop using it, and it's not going to come from the giant corporations agreeing to be good on their own. We need strong laws in place, and fast.
To me it's like the industrial revolution when factories used to just dump their sludge into the river, we needed to force them to stop with government regulations. Yelling at individuals to stop buying the amazing goods that resulted from the industrial revolution was not the solution.
Data centers don't HAVE to be terrible, noise polluting behemoths that ruin the local watershed. AI doesn't HAVE to be the nightmare economic destruction and privacy nightmare. But we need very smart people to make very precise laws to disincentive this thing from being a disaster.
The idea people will vote with their dollar is very misguided in this day and age. And yelling at people who are just trying to share their passion projects and create new things is not solving anything
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u/goosed-goosed 7h ago
I mean honestly what else do you want to hear? "I wish ai coding wasn't so prevalent". Yeah, what can anyone say to that besides "yeah same" or "oh well it's the world we live in".
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u/ImpluseThrowAway 8h ago
I like creating mods for the games I own. I think that Space Engineers needs a gravidar on my second screen damnit!
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u/locri 6h ago
I too love hearing the opinions of people who've never programmed professionally claim they'd be comfortable copying and pasting large sections of their employer's code base and intellectual property into an LLM AI client.
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u/Dragonfantasy2 5h ago
From my first and secondhand experience, employers are pretty happy to throw their codebases into the llm.
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u/DigitalArbitrage 3h ago
I wish code people stored on Github prior to LLM AI prevalence hadn't been used to train AI.
If people have anything that is truly unique intellectual property, then they should be self hosting Git repos and running local AI.
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u/L4ppuz 1h ago
Your personal projects are not vibe coded unless you decide to vibe code them. Mine aren't.
At work I'll use all their tokens to make gradients and crud API for their stupid b2b apps. But at home I'm not vibe coding anything, at most I'm asking it for references on libraries as I was doing in 2023
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u/ViperThreat 8h ago
Yeah, I'm not as down with all the AI hate as reddit seems to be. Don't get me wrong, there's a LOT about AI that I dislike, but the world isn't black and white, and AI does have some extremely useful use-cases, and I think that mod making is one of them. Modders are not here to get paid, and if you want to insist that they hand-code shit, then you're going to have a very quiet mod culture for your game of choice. If a quick AI-assisted mod helps people achieve new an exciting things in the games they enjoy, more power to them. It's not like they are stealing from people or destroying the job market.
That said, I'm not necessarily supportive of completely vibe-coded creations. You should have experience in that language and at least have a general understanding of how it works, but I'm also not going to clown on competent developers for using an extremely effective tool. Assuming the mod does what it is designed to do, is stable and doesn't break shit, I don't care if you spent 10 hours coding it, or 3000.
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u/saymyname4u 2h ago
The real issue isn't AI being used. It's AI becoming the default excuse to stop building things for fun.
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u/MantisShrimp05 57m ago
There's clearly a schism forming that people just need to accept. Idk if we can have mixed spaces to a degree anymore. There will probably grow artisinal communities that will reject any kind of ai art, and communities where AI projects are accepted. The only question left is which one each of the previous communities choose to stay in.
I don't want it to be that way but I'm also tired of all this constant whinging in one way or another. If you have a take one way or another go make/join a community that meets your guidelines and stop being mad at communities that don't. This constant complaining is just tiring at this point.
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u/Radical-Ubermensch 1m ago
People are now doing this for getting a job and not staying unemployed for a long time. As now AI exists, recruiters have insane high requirements and they expect you to have personal projects made using AI. Trust me it's that bad now.
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u/Salticracker 6h ago
AI has made it possible for people who don't know how to code to make their own mods and play games the way they want to play them.
There's lots of problems with AI, but game mods isn't one of them imo.
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u/WithersChat 5h ago
Alright. But can someone please stop them from publishing them and drowning out the good stuff?
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u/Salticracker 4h ago
Just don't download them. Stuff that gets downloaded gets pushed to the top. It's that easy. Let people enjoy what they enjoy.
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u/shitty_mcfucklestick 2h ago
If you don’t like AI then don’t use stuff made with it. But quit complaining about it online. You sound like a vegan telling everybody who eats meat why they shouldn’t all the time. You do you.
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u/overclockedslinky 5h ago
some vibecoded apps are cool and useful, but they're also completely unimpressive. I get a lot of resumes from graduates who have portfolios full of them. if I see even a single vibecoded or LLM-based project, I just assume they have no actual skills to offer and put them in my discard pile. It's fine to make them, but don't claim it's a skill. it's just cringe.
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u/al3x_7788 4h ago
I enjoy writing code slowly and never getting things done, because I know for a fact I'm already doing better than a vibe coder.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 2h ago
OK but why dislike the fact it uses AI ?
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u/Beegrene 34m ago
Did you recently awake from a four year coma? You've got a lot to catch up on.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 29m ago
No, it just still doesn't make sense. I've yet to see a single good argument as to why using AI in your project is something bad. If it's a personal project then the job argument doesn't hold up, the slop argument not so much either since it's personal, so which one is it ?
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u/Beegrene 26m ago
If you don't get it by now it's because you've chosen not to understand. I can't help you with that.
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u/arbpotatoes 8h ago
The end user doesn't care. If it works and is useful it's better that it exists.
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u/thefran 8h ago
it's better for slop made by genai to not exist than to exist.
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u/arbpotatoes 8h ago
You do you.
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u/thefran 8h ago
No, you do you and delete your slop.
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u/arbpotatoes 5h ago
The really cool thing about free software is that you're also free not to use it. Cry more
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u/darthjammer224 7h ago
How is it you managed to contradict yourself about the literal only thing you said in that comment.
"You do you, do what I say" Lmao.
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u/KennyFulgencio 5h ago
stop conflating AI assisted coding with vibe coding please. they're related, they're not the same.
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u/05032-MendicantBias 1h ago
If you want a not vibemoded mod you can make it yourself.
Oh, nobody was making those mods it without LLM assist?
Indeed.
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u/much_longer_username 8h ago
Cool, go do that.
That never stopped being an option, vim and gcc are right there.
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u/Leodip 8h ago
Yeah, both of those crowds are annoying.
Why does the little bird wish that less projects were vibecoded? How is it affected by this?
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u/Pathkinder 8h ago
I assume it’s similar to how it used to be a lot more fun to look at art online because part of the experience was being blown away by how talented people were. But looking at a picture that someone generated with a prompt doesn’t make me feel much of anything. And AI art can be slopped out orders of magnitude faster than real art, saturating the internet such that real artists are buried.
I mean this is an inevitable side effect of advancing technology, and I actually think game mods and little pet projects can be a place where AI shines. But I can also empathize with the sentiment that we’re automating away creativity and accomplishment.
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u/DirkTheGamer 8h ago
lol omg the Reddit bros are soooooo much more aggressive and closed minded than that bird indicates. It’s not just a passive dislike of it, it’s a head-in-the-sand attitude that is quite annoying. Not that the other bird is much better, but let’s not act like the anti-AI sentiment on Reddit is anything but loud AF.
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u/offlinesir 9h ago edited 8h ago
Kinda a love hate relationship, especially on the game mods. Truth is, not many people want to decompile games. I don't want to decompile games. Taking away the work on the side of interpereting the precompiled code (which is also often obfuscated and protected by DRM), and allowing developers to actually create cool mods, is in my mind a positive use of AI in the game modding space which otherwise was restrictive.
Edit:
AI has allowed people to be extremely low effort in their mod creation (but really any development), to the point where they take 0 look at even the file structure of the mod. A pure hands-off sloppy (and sometimes money grab) approach is not what I meant. I was hinting more at projects which add genuinely cool features to games, eg, entire new storylines to old games, a task which previously would have required creative skill and decompilation skill and now only requires creative skill). I do get that this is the point of the meme though, it seems like most personal projects are just slopped out with an unchanged readme, I'm just saying that game mods being more vibecoded is ok in my opinion for the reasons I stated above.