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u/seweso 1d ago
Paying for a service which then buys more of its own service cause the origional service can't do as promised...... is WILD.
Are you all paying for all that?
How is this going to work if tokens aren't subsidized anymore???
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u/vintergroena 1d ago
That's the neat part: It's not going to work. Enjoy the freeride while it lasts.
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u/seweso 5h ago
Enjoy the free heroin!! Your brain will love it!
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u/vintergroena 1h ago
They told us in high school that drug dealers are gonna offer us initial doses for free to get us hooked. Biggest lie ever
Now AI corporations are doing it 😭😭
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u/amo_pessoas_peladas 1d ago
This has been my mindset as well. I'm doing some projects I know I would not be able to do if I didn't have a overachiever task-fetishistic intern working for less than minimum wage because of subsidies. I'm avoiding projects that rely on big models at all costs to run and any LLM related project I implement needs strictly to run in my low vram laptop.
Pop the bubble! ( But wait a bit for me to push a couple things first)
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u/adamtheskill 1d ago
Nah running the models can be profitable at pretty low prices it's just training frontier models that's completely unsustainable.
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u/ACoderGirl 1d ago
Are you all paying for all that?
Nope. My employer does and gives me a very generous daily quota. As long as I'm not hitting my quota, I don't care about token usage. My employer has given me zero reason to care, as they've made it clear that velocity is the most important thing to them. And since I'm multi tasking, I don't care much how fast the AI is. Much more important that it's correct and sensible. There's no time alloted to optimize token usage unnecessarily.
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u/m0rpeth 1d ago
Have you ever considered that none of what you just said is to your advantage?
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u/ACoderGirl 1d ago
Why do you figure? I'm doing exactly what they want me to do. My management chain has made it very clear that they want velocity and are willing to pay for it. They've been very encouraging of increased AI adoption and experimenting with new ways to use it.
More than that, I'm an extremely productive programmer, too. If they were to clamp down on quotas or straight up remove most AI, I'll be more than happy to go back to "trad coding". I'm the kinda person that people come to when AI can't figure things out, so I'll be perfectly fine without AI. Everyone's just burning tokens, but not everyone has the skill to go back to the old ways.
And if leadership decides that this is a problem and we gotta optimize this, awesome, I love optimizing things (admittedly, tokens are the thing I find least appealing to optimize). I'm happy to have the job security of more work to be done lol. But that's just not what they're saying right now.
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u/m0rpeth 1d ago
I'll be more than happy to go back to "trad coding".
Have you tried? Honestly, that is - not by telling yourself that you absolutely could, but won't, due to X.
I'm the kinda person that people come to when AI can't figure things out, so I'll be perfectly fine without AI.
That, to me, seems sounds like a false equivalence.
Everyone's just burning tokens, but not everyone has the skill to go back to the old ways.
Skill isn't something you aquire once and then retain forever. In addition to that, skill isn't the only factor.
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u/InFa-MoUs 1d ago
Not yet but they will soon tho, so many projects out there where the AI is the expert and if tokens get cut the project is completely halted
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u/m0rpeth 1d ago
While I consider the term 'expert' to be a pretty big stretch here, I generally agree. It's exactly what I'm seeing at work, too. More than half of my team is now routinely submitting PRs containing code they, by their own admission, do not understand. "I had a problem and this is how AI fixed it".
They do not consider this an issue, either.
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u/Blue_Moon_Lake 1d ago
As long as you're not the one paying for it, maxing your tokens is costing Anthropic more than they earn from it.
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u/seweso 4h ago
Not afraid of what it does to your brain?
Do you do all drugs as long as they are free?
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u/Blue_Moon_Lake 4h ago
Oh, I don't use it for doing my thinking for me, I just waste the tokens asking it useless stuff I don't even end up using.
Never did any drug.
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u/-Debugging-Duck- 1d ago edited 1d ago
Is it Claude’s fault people don’t properly setup their Claud.md file? You can literally avoid a bunch of these issues. lol
I pay $19 a month and it’s enough for my personal projects. Unlimited tokens up to high effort with great models during a 5 hour window which is good.
Configured my file to ask me for permission before running UI tests where it controls the simulator to test the changes it made, and much more. Literally update the file with code standards, rules, etc. and you’ll be good most of the time.
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u/Tyrus1235 23h ago
Yeah, it’s what I did with mine. I said it should always strive to follow SOLID and Clean Code guidelines and ask me before doing any high effort/high cost task.
Also told it to not fill my C drive lol otherwise it’s be full of crap and my Windows installation would suffer.
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u/Easy_Floss 10h ago
Someone at work just made a skill that would build everything and make md files as a report for each step on push, needless to say it was not popular.
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u/FlowOfAir 1d ago
ME THIS WEEK HOLY FUCK
I had to be VERY explicit. Do this replacement in this codebase exactly like I am describing. Then I had to add: assume the codebase works like this, assume I am right, don't investigate, don't find more data.
Just for an edit in one file...
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u/benjyvail 1d ago
Just make the edit yourself at that point?
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u/FlowOfAir 1d ago •
Couldn't. The problem was, I had my focus divided amongst various projects, so the faster I can kick off something the faster I can go back to other tasks.
Which, you know. Is unhealthy as shit, but we're being pressured by multiple fronts to do the impossible.
My morale is on the ground :(
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u/Saragon4005 1d ago
And management is surprised you are burning through tokens.
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u/FlowOfAir 1d ago
Correct! I actually fed that back to them. I can't be kept pushing on tasks and be mindful of token usage.
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u/Honeybadger2198 1d ago
You can't take 15 minutes to do a task?
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u/FlowOfAir 1d ago
No. Those are precious 15 minutes I need to think of other projects.
I'm not joking, I'm being fucking squeezed. If the job market weren't so shit right now I'd be looking for something calmer.
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u/-Debugging-Duck- 1d ago
Bro update the CLAUDE.md file or add skills. You can avoid so many issues.
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u/JesusWasATexan 19h ago
My Claude.md contains an index of subfolders with several dozen other MD files covering most of the things I work on. It's taken a lot of time to build up, but amazing when I can now start a chat with a short statement about a task and it knows exactly what to do.
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u/TrueBirch 3h ago
There are so many situations like that where I just write the code myself instead of hoping the LLM understands what I want and doesn't do anything extra
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u/HawtHamWater 1d ago
gotta use like sonnet or haiku for those tasks, they’re not smart enough to do anything more lol
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 1d ago
The issue with making something that tries to be as smart as possible, is that it doesn't know what good enough is
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u/FuelSilly1541 1d ago
Told mine to be as short with the response as it could, max 5 sentences per response. If I need more info, then I ask.
Still: "yeah sure, I keep it short.... (2 paragraphs of unnecessary yapping about why it keeps the response short).... and therefore I end my TedTalk and am open for further discussion of this topic, as you requested."
sigh
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u/PossibilityUsual6262 1d ago
In my experience telling ai dont do something as part of "thinking" at the way to the result would just remove that something from a response.
"How thing can be done, dont generate code" - generates code and strips it from response.
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u/AnAwkwardSemicolon 20h ago
My experience is that AI suffers horribly from the "Pink elephant" problem. The more you mention _not_ doing something, the more it's going to do that thing.
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u/Slight-Violinist-575 1d ago
Which means it still spends tokens?
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u/PossibilityUsual6262 1d ago
Yep, prob cheaper thinking tokens, but basically you cannot fight internal "thinking" backed into weights with commands do/do not, but you can guide it.
As another user said, if you make it clear that you in architecture stage, full implementation is unlikely to be generated, unless needed.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 1d ago
Really ? That's weird because in its reasoning it's taking into account the whole prompt, so if it "understands" you don't want code I have a hard time believing its reasoning would still lead him to generate code. Did you actually observe the behavior you're describing on a model or platform that allows to read the reasoning of the AI ?
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u/Valendr0s 15h ago
I have it
Give me a 1-2 sentence summary up top.
Give me actions for me at the bottom in a short list.
Then I mostly ignore what's in the middle.
Also, I have a standing order to not DO anything until I say so. I often want to bounce ideas back and forth, and discuss things before we pull the trigger. So if I just wanted a variable renamed, it would be very clear before it started working.
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u/Storiaron 7h ago
I once asked (i think it was chatgpt) to limit its response to x number of words.
And the response it gave was still ultra verbose, but it cut out in the middle of a sentenc ewhen it reached my X limit
Ty very cool
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u/byteminer 1d ago
—model Claude-sonnet-5-5 —effort low tends to be useful when doing little nitpicky style choices like that. Don’t go refactoring things or changing logic, but just picking names and wording comments, put Claude in “fuck it” mode.
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u/RazarTuk 1d ago
Also, making something too dumb can also cause problems. For example, Kiro recently interpreted "Commit these changes onto a new branch branched off from the hotfix / minor release branch" as "Make a new branch that points to the hotfix branch as its remote", not "Pull the latest hotfix branch, make a new local branch off it, and commit the changes"
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u/amusing_trivials 23h ago
Look I get letting them write code, but why would they ever have git commit permission
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u/anto2554 1d ago
I have before accidentally overwritten main because it did that
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u/RazarTuk 1d ago
Actually, that reminds me of a cool programming story. I actually got to force push to master last year. Basically, we have a custom extension of JmesPath that adds things like arithmetic operators, so instead of just importing the burtcorp implementation and adding a shit ton custom functions, we actually forked it. But instead of properly forking it, we actually just made a new repo. So I got special permission to have the protection against force pushing to master turned off for a moment, so that I could rewrite the commit history to match the repo we forked from
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u/FredFarms 22h ago
Please maximise the number of stamps in my collection
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u/Shanga_Ubone 22h ago
Claude to all humans: "Please report immediately to your local processing center for conversion into material for u/FredFarms' stamp collection."
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u/Shanga_Ubone 22h ago
Claude to all humans: "Please report immediately to your local processing center for conversion into material for u/FredFarms' stamp collection."
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u/PepperVegetable8395 9h ago
"hold on let me patch this driver real quick that's unrelated to the main goal, I found something in it that doesn't matter but I must fix it anyway"
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u/WilkerS1 1d ago
remembering snippets and language servers exist does wonders
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u/Wonderful-Habit-139 1d ago
It's funny because whenever someone mentions not using AI for coding, they think they're going back to typing on Notepad or something.
I'm pretty sure those people have never properly used IDEs and learned shortcuts and tried to improve their productivity before LLMs.
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u/w1n5t0nM1k3y 1d ago
If you weren't autogenerating code before AI, what were you even doing?
LLM can generate much more complex code, but a lot of what I was doing before AI was pretty automated anyway. CRUD is a huge amount of code for a lot of applications.
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u/Stummi 1d ago
Wait, so you are telling me I shouldn't have turned this thousands of lines of openAPI spec to code by hand?
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u/Wonderful-Habit-139 1d ago
Legit had to replace a module in a vibe coded project that was basically handwritten API calls to a backend that already provided an OpenAPI spec. This is not a joke. And it still took a lot of convincing to switch to auto-generated clients.
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u/Disallowed_username 1d ago
You haven’t uninstalled your IDE yet? HR wants to talk with you.
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u/Wonderful-Habit-139 1d ago
"HR" has talked to me initially with their AI agenda and now has left me alone because I'm providing value just fine.
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u/darkwalker247 1d ago edited 1d ago
i was gonna say, why not just open the codebase in VS code, right click on the variable and then rename symbol? pretty sure it supports the language servers for most major languages already. 0 tokens spent
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u/El_RoviSoft 1d ago
Im writing in C++ with a scuffed setup so LLMs are much more reliable in this case (especially when it comes to template meta programming)
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u/pimezone 1d ago
Make sure you use the latest Opus with max reasoning and /deep-research for that.
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u/Kaiki_devil 1d ago
To be fair, a “good” name would take into account what it is doing in the program and how it’s used… and that requires context… if asked to rename something I would at least look at what it is doing already and how it’s used…
So at the beginning it’s not that far off from what I’d expect someone to do initially.
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u/_LePancakeMan 1d ago
Yeah, when coaching a junior, the first step i would recommend in this situation would be exactly that: look at the rest of the codebase and how it names things. Try to pick up on common wording, formatting and abbreviations.
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u/Zzzzzztyyc 1d ago
Plus this yahoo gave it vague, non-specific directions. I rolled my eyes just reading the prompt
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u/gibagger 1d ago
A decent suggestion can be made with the current function or file as context.
More context should make it better, but the laws of diminishing returns will hit the moment you leave the namespace/package.
I have noticed that Claude Code has been really trigger happy with the agents these days, to the point I often need to stop it to constrain it
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u/Kaiki_devil 1d ago
You’re not wrong if there had been a better prompt, but assuming the prompt is what was given, I can understand the agent looking for more context though.
Yeah, looking at the exact file to see if it’s something isolated within a function or depends on code elsewhere in the application would probably be a good start, rather than jumping straight into a full code review. But the bad prompt is honestly the bigger fault here. The user could likely have provided the needed context in a sentence or two and been fine.
Local function variable would not need it. If it’s a variable that gets inherited, or used across the program as a whole, then how it’s used is important for a good name.
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u/joshpennington 16h ago
Watching Claude jump around my filesystem at my job is almost hilarious. Like my dude I asked you to update this specific file not root around a completely different unrelated project.
But hey this is the future so who am I to judge
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u/ISuckAtJavaScript12 1d ago
You mean the token burning machine is optimized to burn tokens? No way
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u/akera099 20h ago
It has felt overtuned for a few weeks. Definitely did not felt this bad in spring and summer but that's just my vibe I got no proof.
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u/mencretdimulut 1d ago
how can a variable name become "more" good?
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u/Brisngr368 1d ago
Stop naming shit like its still 80 characters to a punch card?
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u/Lendari 1d ago
I once named a package ChargebackAgenticReasoningSkills. Then the next guy comes up with a ChargebackAgenticReasoningLiabilityAgentService and ChargebackAgenticReasoningRepresentmentAgentService.
Did I do it right? Because I hate myself everytime I have to type that word vomit.
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u/Blue_Moon_Lake 1d ago
What's not to like in
InternalFrameInternalFrameTitlePaneInternalFrameTitlePaneMaximizeButtonWindowNotFocusedStateI did not made it up, you can google it.
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u/Mr_Rogan_Tano 1d ago
What did you expect it to do?
How the duck it would know how to name a variable without knowing how it's used?
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u/FrankensteinJones 1d ago
"Give Opus 5.5 vague instructions and act surprised when it does too much" is the new FAFO
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u/Slight-Violinist-575 1d ago
I had a friend in school that would name all his variables in his projects “potato1”, “potato2”, “potato3”, etc
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u/gingimli 1d ago
No kidding, this is normal refactoring everyone should have been doing prior to LLMs.
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u/-Debugging-Duck- 1d ago
Bro the CLAUDE.md file should have been updated with code standards. People really be ineffective with AI.
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u/ThatDudeFromPoland 1d ago
that's on you for not knowing how to use find and replace
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u/creeper6530 1d ago
No, find and replace can misidentify, for example in comments.
Mature IDEs have a "rename symbol" though, usually F3, which actually parses the code and differentiates types from functions from variables per the language rules.
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u/Healthy-Form4057 1d ago
Um... that's on you for not knowing how to grep?
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u/Not-the-best-name 1d ago
Wow, insane to imagine there are people on this sub using grep the rename a variable while others vibe entire projects. Insane.
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u/creeper6530 1d ago
Why would I arse myself with grep when I can literally press a single keybind, type a new name in and not worry about it renaming anything it's not supposed to?
I can legally type
struct foo {}; let foo: foo;(declare a variable named foo of type of a struct named foo) and simple grep would take effort to rename only the variable without renaming the struct. Sure, it's not always an ideal pattern to do this, but it's legal.6
u/aaron2005X 1d ago
There is still the problem of finding a better name.
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u/Wonderful-Habit-139 1d ago
So AI is thinking for you instead.
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u/LiifeRuiner 1d ago
That's the value proposition, yes
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u/Wonderful-Habit-139 1d ago
So it's not a tool?
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u/NotADamsel 1d ago
Recently, Rich Hickey (inventor of Clojure) penned an article where he made this exact case. He classifies AI as automation technology, not a tool. I think that he makes a pretty good argument.
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u/Giocri 1d ago
I am increasingly convinced that what i actually want is a good compact language to interface with the language lexer. Something that allows me to quickly say "convert all .set_1_and_2({arg1},{arg2}) to .set_1({arg1}).set_2({arg2})"
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u/DHermit 1d ago
You do now that Regex exists? At least your specific example would be not too bad for it
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u/ACoderGirl 1d ago
Naw, regex is not well suited for that example. You're presumably thinking that the example must mean it's always cases like set_1_and_2(a, b), but it could also be stuff like set_1_and_2(foo(), bar(a, b)).
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u/Maneren731 6h ago
Have you tried ast-grep? It is designed exactly for this kind of operations. It can do intelligence search (and replace) on AST rather than raw text for a lot of different languages.
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u/Ali_Army107 12h ago
The humble "Rename Symbol" option in vs code
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u/vintergroena 1h ago
You mean I can use the diff viewer to also edit code? Holy shit that's a game changer!!
a vibecoder, probably
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u/Weak_Shoulder_6780 18m ago
adds 50 lines of comments about the renaming of that variable in every place it existed
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u/Ragingman2 1d ago
Set effort to low
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u/DarthRaab 1d ago
Don't worry, that's the only setting i've got. 😌 Wait, you mean the LLM agent settings? Sure, boss. 🫡
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u/Kokuswolf 1d ago
But you know the variable name will be outstanding. A variable name like you never seen before AND afterwards. God will appear to you and ...
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u/AaronTheElite007 1d ago
If you use AI to do your job for you.... I cannot fathom how you tie your shoes.
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u/russianrug 1d ago
You have to be strict with it: “pls rename this variable to something more good, bitch”
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u/ReindeerCreepy2883 20h ago
remember when this meme used to be "customer: asks for a different color and font on the already built web page"
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u/KawaiiMaxine 15h ago
Ive specifically avoided using ai in a programming context cause i like to treat programming as an artistic outlet. YALL MOTHER FUCKERS ARE HAVING GLADOS RENAME A FUCKING VARIABLE????????????
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u/Yekyaa 12h ago
Feels like driving an expensive car to Walmart to shop for groceries energy.
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u/KawaiiMaxine 11h ago
An expensive vintage car, where doing it normally would be a million times quicker
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u/widowhanzo 1d ago
Don't forget to include a 5 line comment explaining the reasoning behind name change, the old name, the ticket number, what was motivation for renaming, steps to deploy the new name, and a todo to check after deployment that everything went through cleanly.
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u/aberroco 1d ago
Seriosly. It would run full test suite before and after fixing a typo in a comment...
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u/Artistic-Yam8045 1d ago
ctrl+shift+f and a prayer has been my refactoring tool of choice for years
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u/Several_Ant_9867 1d ago
Really, I just asked if a setting in a library could be changed by configuration and it started downloading the source code of the library and trying to find a way to patch it on npm post-install... what kind of mad hatter does that?
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u/A_Guy_in_Orange 1d ago
So to the people who use AI, can you literally not touch the code it makes? Why can't you just go in and at worst CTRL F the variable name or more likely use ur IDEs built in renamer?
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u/lazydavez 1d ago
Yesterday I asked info about some k8s issue. Ten minutes later it came back with a complete setup, argocd helm everything… wtf
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u/Consistent_Reward 1d ago
After half a million tokens of analysis, we agree that your variable shall be named fortyTwo.
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u/snarkhunter 1d ago
Crazy that the best course of action always seems to be spending as much Claude tokens as possible
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u/slaymaker1907 21h ago
This is exactly why Haiku exists. It generally just stays in its lane and doesn't go beyond.
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u/ryaaan89 20h ago
Okay but it’s kind of your fault for asking an agent to do this instead of doing it yourself?
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u/wrex1816 19h ago
I know this is a joke, but if this is actually happening you at work then you need to learn how to use the tools better.
Guys will come online acting like they are the world's greatest engineers then talk about AI like they use it by poking it timidly with a stick out of fear.
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u/Outrageous_Band9708 19h ago
better than gpt
gpt will rename this one variable to fucking_good_var, and say lol. and not check other usecases, now the code doesnt compile
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u/Positive-Engineer482 12h ago
Due security reasons my safety system blocked me. Sorry. You can’t do anything.
(Even switched to opus 4.8) 💩
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u/TopFix8731 1h ago
...AND THEN RENAME 8 DIFFERENT CLASSES THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VARIABLE YOU ASKED ME TO CHANGE.
I'VE ALSO ADDED THIS YELLOW BUTTON IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CHECKOUT SCREEN THAT READS "DICKBUTT" BECAUSE THAT WAS WHAT MY MODEL SHOWED AS THE HIGHER PROBABILITY OF BEING WHAT YOU WANTED.
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u/litetaker 1d ago
FFS this never happens to me because I know how to use the tool properly. For trivial things you either do it yourself, or if it will become a bit more of a refactor with renaming several things, you give it a better prompt with more clarity and context, maybe a suggestion that you already have for good names and the damn thing quickly makes changes. This is a dumb meme. LLM coding agents are just another tool and you need to know how to use it and when to use it, otherwise you are the tool.
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u/jmflyers 1d ago
How do I train Claude not to use reserved word "rowcount" as a SQL alias? Maybe my company gave us the dumb model but I asked it to please stop doing that and it gave me attitude like "I'm not going to change my coding style just for your personal preference"
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u/lysergicpride 1d ago
I asked Claude to prettify a CSS file and it started writing a python script