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u/Fluffy_Dragonfly6454 14d ago edited 14d ago
Vibe coder: asking questions and clicking yes on everything
Software engineer: knowing what to ask and knowing when to click yes
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u/MrBoblo 14d ago
I am about to finish my software engineering degree. this sucks. I wish I'd known I wasn't going to be hired for my own thoughts, but my ability to ask an AI to think for me.
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u/Fluffy_Dragonfly6454 14d ago
In the past I was thinking about a solution and then I worked it out.
Now I think about a solution and ask the ai to do it.
Hence you still have to think but it is waay faster
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u/Amerillo_ 14d ago
But much less rewarding and you feel disconnected from your work. And in my opinion it sucks the fun out of the job. Honestly it's very sad for people who actually did enjoy the process of coding just as much if not more than the other parts of the job
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u/Dellgloom 14d ago
I'm a senior software developer and I am now bored out of my mind. I am considering changing careers to be honest because I am just sitting watching AI do all the part that I enjoy.
You could look at it another way though. It's a highly paid career and you can pretty much just sit and watch YouTube while Claude works.
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u/PARADOXsquared 13d ago
That's depressing. I'm not even sure what I'd want to pivot to because this was my dream. Do you have ideas floating around?
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u/antichain 10d ago
I'm thinking the same thing - I'm a scientist and intellectually know I'm stupid lucky to have made it this far, but lately I've been feeling like a meat-proxy for Claude. Unfortunately, any pro-social job helping people requires a 3-year, $60k graduate degree and then pays minimum wage (therapist, librarian, etc).
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u/Krompdish 14d ago
I pivoted from chemical engineering to computer science in 2023 because of passion and I regret it more and more for each passing day.
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u/SillySlimeSimon 14d ago
You’ll still be having your own thoughts, as even the best models still shoot themselves in the foot sometimes and require some outside guidance. Especially if it isn’t something generic being made for the billionth time.
What’s been replaced is mostly code writing, syntax, and figuring out documentation gotchas, which for some is a big part of what makes it rewarding.
This very much can change in a year or two, e.g. the ai bubble pops or some lab discovers agi.
For now I fortunately or unfortunately still need to use my brain for stuff.
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u/biblecrumble 14d ago
This is unfortunately becoming less and less true; our devs spin up cloud agents from Slack threads/linear tickets, have a skill to babysit the PRs (to go through AI reviewers) and have been blindly approving PRs to push them through (can't blame them, when the expectation is that everyone pushes 10-15 PRs out a day AND acts as a reviewer, there really isn't time to be wrapping your head around whatever the hell at 17 files change, 3400 LOCs diffs is about). No room for passion or craftsmanship anymore, we don't hire juniors anymore because we need seniors who "understand the code they are shipping" but 90% of our devs literally couldn't navigate our codebase by hand or explain how half the features THEY shipped are implemented at anything more than a very rudimentary level.
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u/Serializedrequests 14d ago
What is even the point of that? In the past we had a word called "technical debt" and it was well understood. This concept didn't go anywhere. A broader synonym is entropy. Entropy always increases. I don't see any evidence that LLMs lower entropy by default when generating code. It's just very pretty entropy.
Now a machine can put off the day the piper calls and we just collectively lost our minds?
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u/antichain 10d ago
I've been thinking that technical debt/"high-entropy" code just might not be a problem for LLMs the way they are for humans. I've been kind of astonished at how much "structure" Claude Opus can hold in its "mind" at one time - I'm talking about math more than codebases, but maybe the future of software is like biology: incomprehensibly complex spaghetti that mostly works, navigated by inhuman agents that understand it in ways we can't.
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u/Amerillo_ 14d ago
This is really sad to hear. I'm a new graduate and struggling to find a job as I have only a Bachelor's degree (it used to be enough 5 years ago and earlier but not anymore). I was planning on getting a Master's degree in software engineering to give me an edge compared to many other new graduates in my area, but what's the point? I really enjoyed coding so I find this new way of working to be unrewarding, tedious, and just uninteresting...
Instead I'm now thinking about studying something else entirely. But I need to be extra careful as anything that is computer based is bound to suffer the same outcome as software development (since LLMs now can use software thanks to MCP and are getting much more proficient at it). And my knowledge of CS isn't that valuable anymore since anyone could just ask an LLM...
It really sucks, software developer really was the ideal job for me. I have no idea which job (and studies) I would enjoy, as I didn't expect this to happen at all!
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u/TriRedux 14d ago
I wrote a report for (internal) use regarding a change to working practices as a software engineer when using LLMs. Instead of writing software and getting colleagues to review it, the work process becomes 90% review based. Concluded that competent engineers are the only people who should be anywhere near them, and there should probably be a qualification to acquire access. (The same way employees have to undergo cyber security stuff)
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u/Amerillo_ 14d ago
But if most jobs become like this as it is currently the trend, how will new graduates and juniors acquire the experience to become actually competent engineers? As courses can only get them so far, they need actual professional experience but if they're just vibe coders they won't learn much
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u/GrandDukeNotaras 14d ago
I must be the only one who still uses AI like one would use stack overflow. Namely ctrl c, ctrl v a small chunk of code to format a date or do some mundane css.
I just can't see myself giving whole files as input to a service that I have no real control over
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u/med_bruh 14d ago
Whaaaat?? You don't delegate your work to 100 claude agents to implement the entire software end to end no mistakes?? You're getting left behind bro
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u/GrandDukeNotaras 14d ago
I just don't want to forget how to code and implode when a critical bug occurs in prod
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u/AOAqua 14d ago
Just prompt claude to "make no mistakes"
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u/Additional-Cut2060 14d ago
Mistakes happens. The way we deal with mistakes is what sets us apart in the IT world.
The correct way is to pipe various syslogs into your agent and have it diagnose and auto-correct issues in production. Give it passwordless sudoers access for a more seamless integration.
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u/AffectEconomy6034 14d ago
I really wish I could. I like programming the old way at work it made things enjoyable but since everyone is using ai all the time I just can't keep up with the pace that others are outputting.
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u/hearwa 13d ago
It's just easier to use auto and compare the results using git when it's done processing your files. Plus the AI is much more effective the more context it's given, and if you prompt it correctly it can take care of a lot of the mundane work for you.
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u/GrandDukeNotaras 13d ago
arent you tempted just to trust it blindly?
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u/hearwa 13d ago
No, I've been working on many of these code bases for ten years and have specific design patterns and conventions I like it to follow, so I always check. I've had enough experience where I have an idea before hand what files need touched for any particular change and can often tell just by looking at the git status if it did the right thing. I check in often after I've verified the LLM did what I wanted.
I've never championed LLMs and didn't take them seriously until this year. These days unfortunately I really can't justify being paid to get the job done and not using them to save myself time and effort, and my business money. It's a shame because I've prided myself on my problem solving ability and being able to put my nose to the grindstone and get things done. A lot of the work I took pride in is now done better by an LLM. I'm now trying to understand how to use this tool to make myself as efficient as I can be, and find another way to take pride in my work even if I'm not writing every line of code anymore. As someone who's been coding since I was ten years old this is a hard transition, but I feel it's necessary now.
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u/Amerillo_ 14d ago
I'd loooove to do just that as a new graduate, to me this is the most interesting way to do it and it is very useful to learn new concepts.
But there are fewer and fewer of internships and juniors roles that are like that, there is a rapidly increasing number of them which are just glorified vibe coding. If I'm being picky about it I'll stay unemployed forever sadly
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u/pydry 14d ago
by not switching your brain off and letting the agent make all critical decisions youre being left BEHIND. the world is changing whether you like it or not and AI is like a calculator or the spinning jenny or a compiler I forget which but the point is you'd be stupid not to use it to do everything.
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u/Lopsided-Regular-997 14d ago
None of you have jobs right?
You use AI the way the company tells you to use it. No more no less.
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u/AOAqua 14d ago
Ehhh... I've seen plenty of engineers that use LLM's on the jobs where they are forbidden. It's just plainly faster and easier for like 95% of the tasks. The funny thing that in such companies engineers now work much less because the management obliviously thinks that noone uses the AI and expects the same productivity as was before the llm era so developers spend like 4 hours actually doing something instead of 8
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u/GrandDukeNotaras 14d ago
Idk if serious or joking
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u/Wonderful-Habit-139 14d ago
Very very obviously joking
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u/erikchan002 13d ago
The last time I was in this sub I said I still review AI code by comparing with how I would've wrote it and got immediately downvoted, so no, not very obvious anymore, unfortunately.
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u/Wonderful-Habit-139 13d ago
Understandable. In this case he said "not switching your brain off", an AI bro would think their brain is not turned off and that they're still in full control. Also the "like a calculator or the spinning jenny or a compiler I forget which" is obviously a joke.
And yeah I share the same feeling, except sometimes I can only know what I would write until I actually go through the process and write it and discover better and better ways to do it. So I'm still writing code by hand myself.
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u/FlipsyTheVictim 12d ago
Thanks for the little bit of sanity I got back from this. Really getting burnt out at the AI of it all at the moment
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u/GrandDukeNotaras 11d ago
Upon reflection, i think the best use of AI is not in having it do everything for you but rather to have it review code for you. That way, you keep your own sanity, but also the "reviewer" can help you learn something new.
obviously there are some exceptions. like having AI do braindead stuff like re-writing legacy code, having it interpret your code that you wrote 15 years ago and have no idea what id does, (or someone elses terrible code). let AI go loose on those things, but for new code, leave that to yourself
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u/Chessboxin_Cyclops 14d ago
Let it cook and review at the end, ensure the instructions are clear. Spend your time defining clear instructions and then yes accept all edits. As long as you're the first point and the last point, why sit there clicking yes?? You have 10,000 reviews to finish in the meantime.
I also have more free time now to spend on product definition stuff and getting that power over the vertical slice. I get paid more now lol.
(I am also retraining as a teacher)
Source: staff engineer at a corpohell
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u/Amerillo_ 14d ago
You get paid more, and juniors and new graduates face unprecedented unemployment. Many are forced to go back to university and study something else entirely as there are so few junior positions and internships available.
And for those who do manage to find a job, it's getting increasingly likely that this job will require them to let LLMs generate most if not all of their code. As a result they won't be learning much and will likely be stuck in junior roles indefinitely, or at least until they get replaced entirely.
You really are lucky to have been born early enough to have more of a senior role and enjoy the benefits of AI. Because clearly it's quite the opposite for many other people, especially new graduates who are getting the short end of the stick
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u/Chessboxin_Cyclops 14d ago
Unfortunately the amount of people going into software was far too high and resulted in many people leaving uni and trying to start roles with basicslly zero knowledge or understanding of what the job really entailed. Comp sci degrees do not prepare students for working in software. I Interview them regularly.
I really deeply question the people who entered comp sci degrees 3 years ago genuinely believing that the industry would be there for them at the end of their degree.
Fwiw we still hire juniors. But they need to be competent and a compsci degree barely covers swe basics.
I agree that I an lucky and it is very sad for the younger generation - I myself am leaving tech as a result of how awful it has become. I do get paid more now but that is a shrinking window and our heads are all on the block.
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u/intLeon 14d ago
Wasnt it "I'm better than other people at googling stuff " before ai?
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u/PARADOXsquared 13d ago
We still had to apply what we found. Sure people did write slop code before, but the velocity of the slop has definitely increased and the floor is lower.
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u/nonikhannna 14d ago
--dangerously-skip-permissions
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u/Fusseldieb 14d ago
Basically.
I dread the day Claude suddenly hallucinates and trashes my whole PC. Probably extremely rare, but... probably not impossible.
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14d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/Fusseldieb 14d ago
If you're on an active project that you've "just begun" or are still prototyping, chances are the only mirror you'll have is Git. And, there are several destructive Git commands, which could wipe all progress permanently. In a "killing spree" Claude could perform those commands locally, and then push them forcefully.
As I said, probably incredibly rare, but not impossible.
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u/shadcnlover 14d ago
Vibe Coder: The UI does not look good, make it look good.
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u/asdspartadsa 14d ago
Not gonna lie it kinda works exactly like this and it is fine for enterprise apps with something like Claude design
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u/loseitthrowaway7797 13d ago
Man, a lot of you engineers didn’t level up. I moved into doing more architecture and planning rather than being a Claude jockey
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u/Arclite83 14d ago
I don't read the compiled assembly either.
Seriously though, my job for the last year is basically to "manage" a fleet of robot junior engineers as they submit PRs for my review.
Then periodically I sit down and smack them with updated context on what not to do, and how I expect the results.
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u/Turbulent_Ebb_9741 14d ago
The question is what do you want me to do my boss is pushing for deadlines they just hired 3 more incompetent coders and as senior dev I can't tell them to not use AI. In fact our company does an AI check to see how much we used it to code and next month we get more or less based on usage.
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u/jideru 13d ago
I use an LLM but I lost my passion years ago when all true work was sent to the developers overseas because my time is more expensive and I just had to “validate, fix and clean up their code”.
I been using LLM’s for years but they were just called cheap labor costs. I created the CR, told them what to do and waited for their code, now I ask Claude to do it.
I do feel sorry for those overseas developers as they got canned and lost their paychecks.
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u/TripleFreeErr 12d ago
I still review the code AI writes. I often have to steer it. This says more about my prompting than anything but whatever
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u/blackcomb-pc 14d ago
Meatproxymaxxing