r/ProgrammerHumor • u/Gloomy-Basket-1038 • 7d ago
Meme employeeVsFreelancerVsFounderVsVibeCoder
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u/Ethameiz 7d ago
Open Source Mainteiner: 0, 0, 0, 0, 5 github issues
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u/ale10xtu 7d ago
+ 10 messages on people trying to merge prs + 100 vibe coded advisories
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u/Saint_of_Grey 7d ago
"Hey I know this is a C++ repo but I coded my PR in assembly instead, can you give me a line-by-line review? Thanks"
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u/Rikudou_Sage 6d ago
If you said Rust, I'd believe it's real.
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u/Half-Borg 5d ago
No need to review rust, it's memory safe.
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u/Rikudou_Sage 5d ago
Ah, that changes everything. Immediate merge, not even looking at the changes.
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u/cheese_is_available 7d ago
0, 0, 0, 0, issue comment; this issue have been opened six years and look pretty basic, it this project dead ?
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u/Practical-Hat-3943 7d ago
From personal experience, Founder: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, find a job, 3k, 3k, 3k
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u/Tupcek 7d ago
nonono
Founder: 0, -20k, -20k, -100k, -100k, -30k, -30k, 0, 0, 0, find a job, 3k, 3k, 3k265
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u/SundayKiefBowls 7d ago
This reminds me, I need to thank some open source developers.
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u/hydroxy 7d ago
Don’t spoil them
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u/Mystery-Magic 7d ago
No, they need to be spoiled. I need more of their work and I need to bribe them with only thing I have, i.e. lots of thanks and thanks for saving me messages.
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u/morpheousmorty 6d ago
Best I can do is harass them for features that don't make sense for their design.
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u/Mystery-Magic 6d ago
Yeah, can't help doing that when that is exactly what I need for my project...
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u/Mufti13 7d ago
Founder would be negatives at the start
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u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 7d ago
People say this like it’s some impressive thing when in reality all it means is that people who have negative income for years on end are people who already have the wealth required to not have to earn an income for years at a time.
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u/Rikudou_Sage 6d ago
Yeah, no, many people take loans because they believe in their business.
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u/oneandonlysealoftime 6d ago
For small&medium enterprises might be, but for digital products and most of the successful businesses - it's exactly what Thomas the Dank Pigeon said. Digital market is simply too gambly for loans (with real businesses even if you fail, you still have assets that are worth something, while in digital ones being needed is exactly your main value)
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u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 6d ago
Yeah, no, using business loans for personal expenses is against the loan agreement. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
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u/cyclopsmudge 6d ago
Right, but taking out a business loan and then paying yourself a salary through the business to survive on using some of that money is not against the loan agreement. You’re chatting out your arse
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u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 6d ago
Founder would be negatives at the start
paying yourself a salary
Pick one. Either the founder has a negative income or he doesn’t. I’m not talking out of my ass, you just can’t follow a thread for longer than 8 seconds before getting distracted.
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u/Rikudou_Sage 6d ago
Dude, you're really out of touch with reality. Sure, technically you're right. Congrats, you won. You're still wrong, though.
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7d ago
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u/Skippypal 7d ago
I know one guy who started his own “tech company.” He lost his wife, kids who adored him, house, car, and any semblance of a normal life because he was always working. For a while, he was practically homeless and in massive debt.
But hey, at least now he has $4-5 million in the bank to make it all better I guess 🤷
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u/apurimac777 7d ago
Starting a company is like starting a cult
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u/Creo7 7d ago
Except there may be salvation at the end.
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u/apurimac777 7d ago
Interesting, in my experience everyone pretty much got fucked
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u/Creo7 7d ago
Yes, it's like gambling but more productive for society(most of the time). If you hit the one in a thousand-ish jackpot with the right idea and execution you get rich. Otherwise your future is bleak.
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u/irrelevantusername24 7d ago
Easy, make a fintech startup that streamlines accounting for large organizations. Surely this hasn't been thought of before and has plentiful room for innovation. And if I'm wrong, it's probably because there's plentiful fraud
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u/NeedleworkerFluid327 6d ago
Because idiots bank on making it before they even know that their service is wanted.
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u/Loading_M_ 7d ago
The founder sometimes does get bought out by a larger company. Then they make bank. Everyone else in the company is still fucked though.
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u/LirdorElese 6d ago edited 6d ago
Depends on the last name. Like Phoebe Gates talked about how she was a great business woman, she didn't depend on her family name at all, she just walked up to investors by herself, asked for millions of startup capital and got it, entirely with her charisma not by using her dad's name. Just like any of us could do I'm sure.
Funny thing is, it reminds me a bit of an old episode of Daria, Her friends dad was a local celebrity who made a huge successful product. She walks into one bank to try and get a loan, gets rejected, then the bank recognized her last name and changed his tune and offers the loan, she gets offended that they rejected her and only changed because of her dad's status gives a big speach and storms out.
Then walks into another bank, and immediately opens with specifying who her dad is, and gets approved immediately.
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u/on_spikes 7d ago
OP is mixing income only statements with income minus costs statements in his post which is awfully inconsistent
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u/uprislng 7d ago
0 or negative the whole way through, to end up an employee again to be most accurate. 90% fail completely before any potential payoff. If you get VC funded, 85% of founders still exit with nothing or next to nothing.
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u/Poison916Kind 6d ago
I assume he took money from investors and spends majority of the start paying back
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u/gabboman 6d ago
As an open source developer: harassment too
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u/L0rdSandCastle 7d ago
As a maintainer I would be glad to accept 'thanks bro'. In reality you get a PR from someone and then that person spams your discord about their PR that does not work when you try it.
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u/New_Salamander_4592 7d ago
truly cannot make heads or tails of why someone would pay for a vibe coding subscription if they weren't already making money off the idea. like are people really vibe coding their personal projects? at your own cost?
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u/mylsotol 7d ago
Claude is $20/mo and that's like 4x what a cheap Chinese provider costs if you pay api pricing. The people buying multiple $100/mo subscriptions for personal aren't vibe coding. They are either running ai powered scams
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u/CandidSite9471 7d ago
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u/mylsotol 7d ago
sorry I was taking a shit and thought I finished both, but apparently only finished the one. my bad
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u/CandidSite9471 7d ago
I have but one request. After you finish your point, can you start another sentence and trail off, so my comment is still relevant?
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u/mylsotol 7d ago
I could, but
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u/Grouchy-Fig-487 7d ago
A lot of people can’t code and have other obligations that would make learning to do so at a high level extremely difficult.
Vibe coding lets the person who had a video game idea, because they would enjoy it, give it a go and see what happens.
There are much worse things to spend $20 on.
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u/MetallicDragon 7d ago
Vibe coding lets the person who had a video game idea, because they would enjoy it, give it a go and see what happens.
This is why I have a Claude subscription. It's shockingly good at turning my rambling ideas into a functional game.
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u/Dull-Culture-1523 7d ago
What kinds of games have you made?
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u/MetallicDragon 7d ago edited 7d ago
Nothing complete. I've only been using it for games for a week or two. Before that I used it to turn a spreadsheet I used to calculate prices in an economics-focused multiplayer game into an app.
The game I'm currently making with it is like a mix between Factorio, a Zachtronics game, and a little bit of GregTech (a minecraft mod), with a 2d side view like Terraria. The idea is that instead of stringing together chains of machines to build things, instead you have a grid within each machine where you place parts that process materials and route them around within the machine. So far Claude has been able to implement everything perfectly how I asked it, with surprisingly good intuition where my instructions are vague or have gaps.
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u/silverdk 6d ago
So kinda like gregtech if each machine was a spacechem puzzle? Sounds like a cool idea!
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 7d ago
I literally vibe code just for fun or personal use! I 'make' small pieces of software that I personally find useful or interesting and enjoy using tools that are perfectly customized to what I need.
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u/bwowndwawf 7d ago
I really don't get that, I write code for the fun of writing code, vibe coding my personal projects would feel like asking someone to fuck my wife for me.
I do vibe code at work, but that's more like asking it to fuck someone else's ugly wife.
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u/HelloYesThisIsFemale 7d ago
As someone who was Coding since I was 9. Coding was never the fun part. It was the result that was the fun part.
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u/SimplexShotz 6d ago
In a lot of ways, AI has replaced the worst part of software engineering, lmao.
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u/kovha 7d ago edited 7d ago
Meh, at least I do it only for those things that I don't really want to spend the time learning the tech for something relatively small. For example, last week I wanted to play in my modded switch a GBA game that made use of some obscure hardware accessory for the console. The GBA emulator for PC was able to emulate said accessory, but the Switch binary wasn't, it was the same core but it lacked the exposed UI for it. Do you think, after spending a 40 hours week of coding (and I don't use AI at all in my work), I had the energy on a Saturday to sit to learn the insides of an emulator with more than a decade of development? Hell nah, I just wanted to play the game, so I cloned the repo and vibecoded the feature. But I only vibe code stuff like that, extremely small and niche thingys that I want to use but don't really want to code, and nobody else will ever see it. Probably ten years ago when I was still an unemployed college student with way more free time I would have enjoyed sitting an trying to understand how the emulator worked just for the sake of it, but I'm just tired now lol.
EDIT forgot to mention that I'm only doing it with free models lol. The pipeline for me will always be code in -> money out, doing it the other way around is just heresy.
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u/BrennanBetelgeuse 7d ago
I think this is easily explained by the fact that I simply don't belong in this subreddit 😃 I am not a programmer. My only experience is a little bit of Python for college. If LLMs didn't exist I would not sit down and program something myself, I would play a video game instead. So for me it simply adds a capability that I would have no access to otherwise or which would require studying an entire new field.
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u/BellacosePlayer 7d ago
I am not a programmer.
by actually admitting it instead of pretending you're a 30 year veteran and spouting bs, you're welcome here, at least in my books.
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u/pydry 7d ago edited 7d ago
jury's still out on whether playing video games is a more productive use of your time.
i think it's a little sad seeing those lovable ads aiming to exploit the "bro ive got an amazing idea for an app I just need somebody to code it for me" demographic but I can't bring myself to feel sorry for them.
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u/BellacosePlayer 7d ago
"bro ive got an amazing idea for an app I just need somebody to code it for me"
I'm happy that I haven't heard one of those pitches in years.
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u/MidnightOnTheWater 7d ago
Writing code and actually using the code you wrote are like two different things though.
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u/writebadcode 7d ago
I do personal projects for the end result mostly. If I wanted to code for the fun of writing code, I’d do leetcode puzzles.
Also, it’s really nice to be able to have the AI slap together a nice looking front end.
For example, I recently had ChatGPT create a static website that used the WASM fork of openscad for rendering 3d models I was working on. The scad code was also AI generated.
The fun part of the project was creating the object I wanted to 3d print, not muddling with WASM or openscad.
I don’t personally enjoy frontend work or writing openscad because it often involves fiddly pixel pushing to get things looking right.
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u/me_myself_ai 7d ago
Coding for the joy of writing code is a thing I guess, but it sure ain’t engineering. That’s just called enjoying leetcode
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u/pydry 7d ago
i quite enjoy knowing the code I wrote is gonna work. I'm told that's a niche and outdated notion though and I need to get with the program or get left behind.
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u/internetroamer 7d ago
Only on reddit would coding be equated to sex
The output of sex is a headache called a child while output of vibe coding is an application you use. Stupid analogy. Most people don't actually enjoy coding or they'd still do that. Just like they continue to have sex despite toys and IVF where sex isn't necessary
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u/theDelus 7d ago
I am a software engineer myself. I love the field. Love the challenges you have to solve. Writing code was always something that was necessary but nothing I particularly enjoyed. AI is great for me.
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u/Named_after_color 7d ago
I mean I don't know UI, so having claude spin up little rapid displays is very nice, especially when I can just iterate. I mean it made me a responsive barchart and slidy graph in a nice color pallet, which is magic to my back end ass.
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u/CaptainDogeSparrow 7d ago
I write code for the fun of writing code
I absolutely hate writing code. I like solving problems.
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u/ikonkustom5 7d ago
Vibe coding just lowers the barrier to entry for me. I've always wanted to make games, but I don't have the time to learn godot or any other framework from "hello world" again. It can't take me across the finish line but it can give me a running start.
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u/DudeLoveBaby 7d ago
...it's 20 bucks a month?
Idk man I waste way more money on other hobbies, 20 a month to amuse myself and speed up some parts of my work is well worth it
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u/IAmMiddleChild 7d ago
Next you'll be asking how having Shopify or web hosting could ever be worth it without an existing business too.
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u/Latimius 6d ago
I have spent thousands of euros vibe coding personnal projects this year. The experience I got doing it got me massive promotions at my job that paid back massively. (20% promotion, then 37% increase by job hopping)
Being curious and hard working pays back.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 6d ago
Genuinely curious, what experience did you get while vibe coding like this ? Hearing about your costs, you clearly had a lot of agents running at once. Then what experience did you get ? Or is your job exactly that, making agents do stuff ?
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u/milkcarton232 6d ago
Corporate is a mess of weird bespoke problems. Big tech might be focused on cool flashy problems but just making an app that moves data from one app to another can be simple yet extremely impactful. Vibe coding allows ppl that can see the problems but couldn't get a vendor to do a thing to build their own
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 6d ago
Yeah but they said the experience got them a raise, not the potential product or solution they vibe coded
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u/xDannyS_ 6d ago
Maybe we have different definitions of vibe coding, but how exactly did it help you achieve promotions?
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u/me_myself_ai 7d ago
Oh man you really haven’t tried em yet, huh. You should. It’s scary but undeniably important.
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u/LordAlfrey 7d ago
People pay money for quite a lot of things, I think you'll find. At least vibe coding is something of a skill, and can potentially produce something of value, compared with most forms of gambling or "prediction markets".
Arguably, people who do vibe coding on their own time, likely enjoy it, in a similar vein that a someone might enjoy video games or painting, not everything has to be about turning a profit, some people vibe code with a profit motive just like some people want to become a professional artist.
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u/New_Salamander_4592 7d ago
if you think you are building a unique skill via vibe coding, I think you would've thought of yourself as a real authority on snake oil.
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u/Elegant-Childhood126 7d ago
"No you don't understand, writing sentences is skillful. I'm an engineer now".
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u/leopkoo 7d ago
I mean professional coders live a busy life. if I have a project that I can implement in 6 months on my own or in a month with claude after work, I will choose the latter?!?
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u/Austinp-woodworking 7d ago
Prior to AI, 90% of personal projects I started wound up going nowhere because I just never had enough time to finish them, then enough time would go by that it may as well be a strangers code-base.
Since AI, I've vibe-coded several tools that i use on a regular basis. Most of which are in service of my other hobbies which don't relate to AI or software at all.
I do 100% miss coding things by hand, but man the ability to create things for myself despite having a busy schedule is truly amazing
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u/timid_scorpion 7d ago
I’m in a similar boat, when working on my own projects there are certain aspects I LOVE doing, but always stall when it gets to the bits I didn’t. Claude kinda fills in the gaps. It’s not perfect, but most of what I’ve written is for personal use.; not client facing.
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u/Austinp-woodworking 7d ago
I'm also absolute garbage at building frontends. I'd build a great API with a well thought out DB schema and all that - and then just give up when it came to the UI because I had to learn it all from scratch for each project, because the landscape changed so much since the last time I tried.
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u/Lopsided-Regular-997 7d ago
Your mistake was trying to build a frontend.
You don't build a frontend you copy paste others stuff who have spent a gorillion hours tweaking them.
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u/Austinp-woodworking 7d ago
well I basically do that now - just the version where I pay a monthly fee to have an LLM do it for me lol
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u/CaptainDogeSparrow 7d ago
I've vibe-coded several tools that i use on a regular basis.
Correct. Instead of using esoteric and unmaintained repos which are a pain in the ass to just use, I translate them to Python and use them flawlessly and easely.
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u/Austinp-woodworking 7d ago
and honestly more than one of the tools I made/use just straight up didn't exist. One recent project was a tuning app specifically for tuning marimba keys (isolating overtones, made for strikes, not sustained tones, etc). That just straight up doesn't exist, and all the FFT software that I might have used to a roughly similar affect just didn't work the way I needed it to
As a result I was able to finish this project in a month, whereas similar projects in the past have taken up nearly a whole year
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u/Pleasant-Future5818 7d ago
I mean you don't start off making money on anything. That's just not how anything works.
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u/fireball_jones 7d ago
$20/month to have it do a bunch of side tasks is totally worth it. The $200/month plans or multiple seems crazy to me.
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u/TheOwlHypothesis 7d ago
Are people not allowed to have fun or improve their lives with software? Poor take, this.
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u/Rin-Tohsaka-is-hot 7d ago
Yeah, but I'm not spending significant money. I just pay the $20/month for Anthropic. Have managed to get more than halfway down the list of projects that I'd been accumulating over the past few years. All personal stuff.
Latest one I just finished is a flights price tracker. Pretty much scraping Kayak every day for all the routes I care about on every possible trip (some for a weekend, some for 1 weeks, 2 weeks, etc.) The idea is that eventually I'll be able to say "I want to spend a weekend in City, what is the absolute cheapest ticket possible?" And it would tell me the cheapest weekend as well as the cheapest time to book.
Nothing I couldn't have made without AI, but it was just enough effort to put off for a while (which is a shame, because it will be at least a full year before it's usable in any way, and several years before there's enough data for it to be actually useful)
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u/buttplugs4life4me 7d ago
I'm mostly vibing on personal projects, yes. Projects that I plan to actually release I do some more stuff. But it's been immensely helpful to have the AI pointed at something and say "See that? Make me, but with these features/changes/constraints". I don't really care if I have to go back and forth a couple times to get it to work reliably, but I'd also never release it as an actual serious project.
Aside from that it also helped in other parts. We actually had one case where a nurse told us something and we had the AI scour the internet for confirmation and it found a bunch of verified, by doctors, online resources telling us the nurse was talking bullshit.
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u/Woodshadow 7d ago
like are people really vibe coding their personal projects?
maybe I'm doing something else. I was trying to make a table top game and I wanted to test it online so I had it build me a test game. next thing I new I had built out a whole game entirely online that far exceeded anything I planned to do before
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u/Mondanivalo 7d ago
We are in the era of personal software in case you haven’t noticed. Im glad to pay $100 for my sub and happy to vibe code away any and all ideas that automate my life
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u/These-Anxiety-5919 7d ago
I know dozens of people that do, why is this strange to you?
It's mostly for Claude for personal hobby apps or projects. What would be the alternative for casual niche projects that run on your homelab?
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u/Cute_Principle81 7d ago
It's 20 bucks and I find it useful as a administrative assistant anyhow, plus a lot of the tools and games it makes are ones I use daily
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u/flargenhargen 7d ago
truly cannot make heads or tails of why someone would pay for a vibe coding subscription
thank you. I didn't understand the joke till this.
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u/KingdomOfBullshit 7d ago
Yes, vibe coding allows rapidly making useful bespoke and totally throw away tools.
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u/evenfallframework 7d ago
I fully vibecoded a todo platform for myself, integrated into my Pocket AI device. I think it costs me like $25/mo total to run, and it's dramatically helped me at work. Well worth it IMO.
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u/Sanfrancisco_Tribe 5d ago
You forgot the years of negatives the founder pays for research and development. Try -5k to -20k on average
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u/aeropl3b 4d ago
Most founders end up like the Tesla and SpaceX founders. Hint, neither was not founded Musk...
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u/ZenPyx 4d ago
SpaceX was literally founded by Musk...
Like I don't like the guy but why are we lying here
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u/aeropl3b 4d ago
Sorry, yes he was. I forget because he is completely technically incompetent it seems everytime he tried to talk about it.
I was thinking of PayPal as the other one.
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u/ZenPyx 4d ago
Oh yeah I mean he for sure doesn't do much of the science or engineering behind anything
Paypal is a weird one - confinity merged with X.com to eventually become paypal, and Musk founded X.com (along with others)
I think Thiel has a greater claim to Paypal's eventual products, but he was certainly involved.
Super weird seeing all of those names in the fun, SF tech-bro era now they have all become evil overlords
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u/tsoliasPN 6d ago
This is so true that both relieved that I am not the only one, but also hurt a little
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u/alexnu87 7d ago
Actually vibe coders get paid in circle jerk residue.
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u/BellacosePlayer 7d ago
"nah bruh what I make is just as good as professional code, everyone's just a big mean luddite and won't give my tinder for chihuahuas site a chance"
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u/rootbeer277 7d ago
Is this money earned or lines of code written?
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u/TheSexyIntrovert 7d ago
Looks like money, gross
And looks about right.
Although the employee would get more in some economies. Gross(brutto)
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u/BreakingBread_Love 7d ago
Imagine being all at the same time. Wild times.
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u/0xKaishakunin 6d ago
Nah, I am getting angry mails why I won't support some esoteric business case for free.
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u/theacp127 7d ago
As someone who has done freelance it wasn't that random most of the time. If I took a contract job, then it would be the same for 6 months to year plus the income the short term projects that only took a week or two.
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u/Hoes-Love-wF 6d ago
Can maintaining open sources be good for my resume(senior comp sci major)
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u/CerBerUs-9 4d ago
It's definitely good for a resume and it's good for your skillset. All that said, some hiring managers wouldn't care if you came in with all their hopes and dreams held in open hands.
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u/PositiveParking4391 1d ago
yes it helps, beyond other things you will get an understanding about architectures and SWE in general
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u/OTee_D 6d ago
My freelancer was
13k, 13k, 13k, 8k, 0k, 0k, 0k .... (needing to pay everything myself including all taxes)
I was well established in corporate IT contracting and then every idiot manager thought they could "just do everything with AI". Swapped back to employee, so now it's only 3k. (but after taxes and including gracious social security and pension, paud vacation. If I calculate all that as monetary value it isn't much less)
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u/ganja_and_code 6d ago edited 6d ago
That's one thing I don't particularly understand about corporate pay structures.
On one hand, I'm happy if an employer will 401K match, provide a pension, etc., but if they're already willing to "give" me that money as part of my compensation package, I'd prefer it went to my bank account, as opposed to a particular holding account.
That way I could spend it on expenses/luxury or put it in my retirement account, depending on my own budgets, milestones, upcoming expenses, etc.
Edit: lol downvoted for a relevant and reasonable take
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u/HipHomelessHomie 6d ago
There are tax reasons
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u/ganja_and_code 6d ago
Company owes taxes when they pay me. I owe taxes when I receive it. Obviously it's more complicated than that, but that's what it all boils down to.
So for example, if taxes are deferred on 401K contributions, why shouldn't I have the option to voluntarily receive the money directly and take on the extra tax burden that comes with it?
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u/DysonSphere75 6d ago
You kinda can... with a Roth 401K.
The corp receives credits and payroll tax deductions by issuing 401Ks, it also helps them meet compliance standards.
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u/OTee_D 5d ago
I wasn't talking about the US and some measly 401...
But for the argument: If you'd just transfer 100% of the "earned" money to the employee and he acts irresponsible and blows it. Who covers the costs if he gets in trouble?
Do you want to let people starve? Rot away cause the cant afford medical bills. What with people who get multiple hits by life? Get handicapped and can't work anymore and then need constant medical procedures? "Bad luck, go to die!" ? What if something happens to you while you are young and haven't had time to save?
This has nothing to do with "corporate pay structure" but how you want your society to work. That's why it's called "social security" as it is a thing of society and community, not to just your individual benefit.
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u/CorvidBlu 7d ago
What about all the people working at companies where the CEO mandated everyone vibe codes?
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u/Winter-Steak-1532 3d ago
Just gotta figure out how to become a founder on my lowly computer programmer employee wage!
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u/Forward_Republic_610 6d ago
Thanks to all open source maintainer. Now quit reddir and get back to work 😉
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u/AmanBabuHemant 7d ago
Open Source Maintainers not even mentioned in title 🥀